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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/1/2013 7:43:12 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

The US should follow France's lead and offer them support in Syria?
Like we did in Vietnam?


I like the nick, Winterapple.

It is my impression that the French were smart enough to get out of Vietnam while we were dumb enough to rush in after they left. That is not what I am advocating. What I am advocating is a D/s relationship where we play the submissive role.

(in reply to Winterapple)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/1/2013 8:14:46 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Did Santayana really live in vain?


Speaking of Santayana

quote:


Fanaticism consists of redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim.


http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_santayana.html

France was involved in World War I and as such has some collective experience on the matter. The United States doesn't.

The US doesn't? My grandfather who survived being gassed at the Belleau Wood would have had something to say on that. Too bad he's dead.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/1/2013 8:22:26 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The US doesn't? My grandfather who survived being gassed at the Belleau Wood would have had something to say on that.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Belleau_Wood

I am not claiming we had no participation, but the experience could hardly be regarded as equivalent to the French experience. I feel that it would be strategically in our best interest to show the world that we can play a submissive role.

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/1/2013 8:22:26 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

The US should follow France's lead and offer them support in Syria?
Like we did in Vietnam?


I like the nick, Winterapple.

It is my impression that the French were smart enough to get out of Vietnam while we were dumb enough to rush in after they left. That is not what I am advocating. What I am advocating is a D/s relationship where we play the submissive role.

Sub to France, you've got to be kidding


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/1/2013 8:33:54 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The Great War offended everyone. It was the first experience anyone had with a World War. Perhaps they overreacted. It is easy to overreact when facing something novel.


911 was a novel experience for the United States; consequently, I suspect we over reacted.


Over reacted....you are fucking joking. The decision to go after AQ was indeed a reasonable one, even if the US and UK went about it the wrong way (By not making a deal with the Taliban. And not taking out AQ at Tora Bora)

The notion of not taking action after so many civillians were killed on American soil is absurd.


We did over react. Not in going after AQ but in locking up hundreds if not thousands of innocent Muslims. torturing prisoners ignoring Americans civil rights etc. that was an over reaction.

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/1/2013 8:42:04 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Sub to France, you've got to be kidding


Men of wealth and power will often seek out a Mistress to please. In the same way we can seek out France in hopes of pleasing her. It is something we have not tried. It would be an unexpected move. United States, as lover and peacemaker. If France declares war. So do we in friendship. We make peace with France and go to war with Syria. That way we can leverage the political connections France has. The countries of the world would have a more difficult time opposing us. We won't be playing the role of the overly aggressive egotistical dominant male. It would reduce the risk that the situation would get out of hand and start a global war.

I feel that the Senate, Congress, and the President should consider what I am proposing.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/1/2013 10:22:13 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Sub to France, you've got to be kidding


Men of wealth and power will often seek out a Mistress to please. In the same way we can seek out France in hopes of pleasing her. It is something we have not tried. It would be an unexpected move. United States, as lover and peacemaker. If France declares war. So do we in friendship. We make peace with France and go to war with Syria. That way we can leverage the political connections France has. The countries of the world would have a more difficult time opposing us. We won't be playing the role of the overly aggressive egotistical dominant male. It would reduce the risk that the situation would get out of hand and start a global war.

I feel that the Senate, Congress, and the President should consider what I am proposing.

The French national backbone was removed at Verdun 1916, Following them would be like John Wayne taking orders from Peter Lorrie.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/1/2013 11:37:24 PM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I think I see where your head is at on this BenevolentM and if so, I'm with you.

In point of fact I'm not a huge fan of any "rules of war". I think that's hilarious and tragic and very, very dangerous. War is not a civilized or pretty thing and I'd just as soon avoid putting lipstick on the pig. It seems to me that rules on paper are very pretty and the moment one side starts to lose and they have the means to stop that defeat....

The whole problem is my view conflicts with notions of "honor" and "glory" in war. By my view there's nothing honorable or glorious about it. It's a dirty, nasty business that will soil your soul if you partake of it but sometimes you need to anyway.


It may be a dirty, nasty business, and it may be the dirtiest part of a business that's already dirty: Politics. War is a political gambit. Politicians have their reasons for going to war, but they also have reasons for keeping it limited. To quote Virgil Sollozzo from The Godfather: "I don't like violence, Tom. I'm a businessman. Blood is a big expense." Likewise, politicians may not actually like going to war, but they do it for whatever political or economic gain they might get.

The "rules of war" may or may not be a facade, although I can see it as a political necessity. Since war is a political activity, the politicians need public support, financing, an industrial infrastructure, and a large pool of manpower to recruit (or draft) from (but you still need to leave enough people to tend the farms and work the factories). The propaganda is needed. The people need to believe that it's a noble and just cause. The "rules of war" may be part of reinforcing that belief. Even if war is a means of achieving a political goal, politicians may still opt to go the practical route if they can.

The "rules of war" are just...politics. Politics is nasty, dirty, and just as dangerous as war. You can't have one with the other.


(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/2/2013 12:10:51 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

(It) would be like John Wayne taking orders from Peter Lorrie.


I didn't say that the pairing wouldn't be interesting and unexpected.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/2/2013 12:28:49 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

(It) would be like John Wayne taking orders from Peter Lorrie.


I didn't say that the pairing wouldn't be interesting and unexpected.

While I respect your originality.
You can't follow someone who's tank have one forward gear and 4 for reverse.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/2/2013 12:35:36 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

It was the first experience anyone had with a World War.

Kana sez, not true. What Americans call the French Indian war was actually an off shoot of the first true world war. The British and French fought in Europe, Africa, Asia, the Americas-if that ain't world wide, IDK what the funk is.

I think it would be better to call it the world's first encounter with industrialized war.


THE war to...end all wars. Yes the world's first fully mechanized war. The beginning of the end of horses used in combat.

The US sent 600,000 troops. Can you imagine that back then ? Had a relative mustard gassed. Thank god that wasn't so lethal as he did fully recover.

One could argiue that the use of drone strikes are a war crime. Almost any new and proficient war technology now and the use of which...could be called a war crime. How about cruise missiles ?

Hell, the world signed a treaty not to use the neutron bomb. But I think that's because the US was the country that had it,


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 9/2/2013 12:36:56 AM >

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/2/2013 4:03:22 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

We did over react. Not in going after AQ but in locking up hundreds if not thousands of innocent Muslims. torturing prisoners ignoring Americans civil rights etc. that was an over reaction.



Especially in Iraq, the mass arrests managed to turn both sides against us.

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/2/2013 4:18:01 AM   
naimIMGI


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(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/2/2013 5:02:19 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naimIMGI



You do know that agent orange was a defoliant don't you?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to naimIMGI)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/2/2013 6:14:57 AM   
naimIMGI


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quote:

OROGONAL BamaD
You do know that agent orange was a defoliant don't you?



OHHH that's OK then - I guess that means that we can safely ignore the estimated 400,000 people were killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects as a result of its use in Vietnam, they don't count because Agent Orange was a 'defoliant; and was only supposed to destroy the ecosystem, and the civilian population's ability to grow crops

A chemical weapon is a chemical weapon however you dress it up

< Message edited by naimIMGI -- 9/2/2013 6:22:33 AM >

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/2/2013 6:25:30 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		We have a friend who now lives in NC.
He's a 'nam vet and and got a dose of Agent Orange when he was out there.
He's still in a shitload of trouble medically and they still won't tell him what was in the stuff.
It's a good job his meds are paid for as a veteran otherise he'd have died because he couldn't afford all the meds he's on for various shit from Agent Orange.

Nasty fucking stuff!!

(in reply to naimIMGI)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/2/2013 6:28:00 AM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: naimIMGI

quote:

OROGONAL BamaD
You do know that agent orange was a defoliant don't you?



OHHH that's OK then - I guess that means that we can safely ignore the estimated 400,000 people were killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects as a result of its use in Vietnam, they don't count because Agent Orange was a 'defoliant; and was only supposed to destroy the ecosystem, and the civilian population's ability to grow crops

A chemical weapon is a chemical weapon however you dress it up

Big difference morally and legally between a weed killer and nerve gas.
But hey as long as you get to trash the Americans who cares?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to naimIMGI)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/2/2013 6:31:47 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


Actually the French and Indian War (Seven Years War in Europe) was the third world war between England and France (with invitations to everyone else)


Wasn't that the one that george washington started just to make a few bux?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/2/2013 6:32:27 AM   
naimIMGI


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


You do know that agent orange was a defoliant don't you?


And you do know that, as early as 1966, the U.S. was vetoing resolutions at The United Nations charging that the U.S. was violating the 1925 Geneva Protocol, which regulated the use of chemical and biological weapons, don't you ?

< Message edited by naimIMGI -- 9/2/2013 6:36:40 AM >

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: What makes it a war crime? - 9/2/2013 6:39:41 AM   
naimIMGI


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: naimIMGI

quote:

OROGONAL BamaD
You do know that agent orange was a defoliant don't you?



OHHH that's OK then - I guess that means that we can safely ignore the estimated 400,000 people were killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects as a result of its use in Vietnam, they don't count because Agent Orange was a 'defoliant; and was only supposed to destroy the ecosystem, and the civilian population's ability to grow crops

A chemical weapon is a chemical weapon however you dress it up

Big difference morally and legally between a weed killer and nerve gas.
But hey as long as you get to trash the Americans who cares?



I'm surprised anyone can even pretend to try and take the moral high ground over deliberately trying to starve a civilian population by poisoning large areas of the agricultural land using a chemical agent with KNOWN long term side effects

I'm sure all the Vietnamese [who are STILL suffering the after effects of it's use] would all bow to your hair-splitting

< Message edited by naimIMGI -- 9/2/2013 6:55:55 AM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 60
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