RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (Full Version)

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Hillwilliam -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/6/2013 5:32:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

If the set-asides didn't exist, then neither would the fraud at the expense of honest, hard working people who just happen to have a penis.

I think those that do the fraud with the set-asides would find a way to get an unfair upper hand in whatever other ways they could (illegal, fraudulent, immoral, etc).. cuz that is the nature of the beast, imo..

You're missing the point.

Set asides open the door to fraud.

Eliminate the set asides and you eliminate a lot of fraud.



DsBound -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/6/2013 5:51:14 PM)

Not sure if its on the list and missed it...

What about how our society more and more demasculates men? Something went wrong, it was the mans fault... men are often shown as the butt of the joke in commercials and movies. Or there is no male role model period.. cant tell you how many kids movies alone where the fathers role is simply mia.



slavekate80 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/6/2013 5:55:04 PM)

Extreme emphasis on the "wage gap" experienced between men and women, and comparatively little on the wage gap between the races. Black and Latino men in the USA, on average, not only earn less than white men, but less than white women as well. And THAT can't be partially explained away by them choosing to work fewer hours or jobs with less raw pay and more non-pay benefits (flexible hours, shorter commutes, etc.) to balance childrearing and career. Issues of racism and lingering effects of poverty from generation to generation get drowned out.

That's not an issue affecting all men, but it does affect large groups of men. The dialogue about what affects income and how any remaining disparity not directly a result of worker choice can be eliminated focuses almost entirely on women vs. men, ignoring the fact that the disparity between races is even larger, and more likely to cause the poorer workers' children to grow up with less material advantage.



tj444 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/7/2013 8:57:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You're missing the point.

Set asides open the door to fraud.

Eliminate the set asides and you eliminate a lot of fraud.

dude! anything to do with govt is open to fraud!.. that's why there are so many freakin laws.. that's why the tax code is HUGE.. and why they make up new ones to try to combat fraud and all that.. the worst ones tho are those that have no morals or scruples.. those Enron types.. those people that will even profit from others deaths to line their pockets... there are different levels of how much of their soul they will sell to make a buck.. I seriously doubt the set-asides of those businesses were the only fraud the owner(s) were committing..

Just outta curiousity.. if these people that you knew of and were dealing with were breaking the rules, committing fraud,.. did you do anything about it?



Hillwilliam -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/7/2013 9:05:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You're missing the point.

Set asides open the door to fraud.

Eliminate the set asides and you eliminate a lot of fraud.

dude! anything to do with govt is open to fraud!.. that's why there are so many freakin laws.. that's why the tax code is HUGE.. and why they make up new ones to try to combat fraud and all that.. the worst ones tho are those that have no morals or scruples.. those Enron types.. those people that will even profit from others deaths to line their pockets... there are different levels of how much of their soul they will sell to make a buck.. I seriously doubt the set-asides of those businesses were the only fraud the owner(s) were committing..

Just outta curiousity.. if these people that you knew of and were dealing with were breaking the rules, committing fraud,.. did you do anything about it?

They were reported.
That brings up another problem. In Dade county, the corruption of a certain nationality is well known and ignored when it is pointed out as the same nationality holds a supermajority on the commission.
It got to the point where a mayor of Hialeah got reelected (by getting over 90% of the nursing home vote it turns out) while he was out on appeal for a racketeering conviction. After 2 of the witnesses died, he managed to stay out of prison.
This company was well known for doing crap work but they still got jobs only because of the set aside.
Set asides rarely accomplish their intended goal. Typically, they result inferior work at higher cost to the taxpayer.



tj444 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/7/2013 9:17:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

They were reported.
That brings up another problem. In Dade county, the corruption of a certain nationality is well known and ignored when it is pointed out as the same nationality holds a supermajority on the commission.
It got to the point where a mayor of Hialeah got reelected (by getting over 90% of the nursing home vote it turns out) while he was out on appeal for a racketeering conviction. After 2 of the witnesses died, he managed to stay out of prison.
This company was well known for doing crap work but they still got jobs only because of the set aside.
Set asides rarely accomplish their intended goal. Typically, they result inferior work at higher cost to the taxpayer.

well there you proved my point, the set-asides are just one of the frauds, corruption, etc these people commit.. imo, if the set-asides weren't there then they would just simply bribe (or blackmail?) the right people to do basically the same thing.. (I am not defending the set-asides, btw.. I don't really know where I stand on them.. I understand the good intention behind them.. its the unexpected consequences tho, that could outweigh those intentions)

and yeah, this thing about US politicians being known for corruption and still being re-elected is rather mind-boggling to me.. I just do not understand that at all..



Hillwilliam -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/7/2013 9:24:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

They were reported.
That brings up another problem. In Dade county, the corruption of a certain nationality is well known and ignored when it is pointed out as the same nationality holds a supermajority on the commission.
It got to the point where a mayor of Hialeah got reelected (by getting over 90% of the nursing home vote it turns out) while he was out on appeal for a racketeering conviction. After 2 of the witnesses died, he managed to stay out of prison.
This company was well known for doing crap work but they still got jobs only because of the set aside.
Set asides rarely accomplish their intended goal. Typically, they result inferior work at higher cost to the taxpayer.

well there you proved my point, the set-asides are just one of the frauds, corruption, etc these people commit.. imo, if the set-asides weren't there then they would just simply bribe (or blackmail?) the right people to do basically the same thing.. (I am not defending the set-asides, btw.. I don't really know where I stand on them.. I understand the good intention behind them.. its the unexpected consequences tho, that could outweigh those intentions)

and yeah, this thing about US politicians being known for corruption and still being re-elected is rather mind-boggling to me.. I just do not understand that at all..

In that case, no. They didn't have enough money for bribes, nor was their work good enough to get business on a level playing field. They would just have had to work for someone else and learn their trade like everyone else.



tj444 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/7/2013 10:02:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

In that case, no. They didn't have enough money for bribes, nor was their work good enough to get business on a level playing field. They would just have had to work for someone else and learn their trade like everyone else.

hahaha.. but you didn't rule out blackmailing the decisionmaker in some way.. [:D] everyone has a skeleton in their closet.. all the fraudsters would have to do is figure out the person(s) weakness and find the dirt, or create it (like set him up to cheat on his wifey with a girl and then get it on vid).. or various other ways of hitting a person's weakness.. then presto, the fraudster gets the contracts.. they could also do something like hire the decisionmaker's unemployed BIL to get the contracts.. there are always angles!.. [;)]



LookieNoNookie -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/7/2013 5:33:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Lets leave the snark at the door for a bit on this thread.

As much as people may not like the poster who typically discusses the problem's men are facing, he does have some valid points. So, lets list em. Cant discuss a problem without knowing what the problems are.

I agree that DV funding is terrible for men's DV shelters.

I agree that men are typically looked at as being predators while women get a blank pass.

I am not looking to pass blame here, just looking for a list of problems as both men and women see them. The reasons behind those problems - such as men are viewed as predators more than women because of stats - isnt what I am looking for at this point.

So, list away!


You know what's completely fucked up?

That a single man can't talk to a child.

On the other hand....few women want to fuck some kid....worse...when they do....they get months....men get years.....but what's even worse is....

It's TOTALLY fucked up that any adult fucks with a kid and doesn't spend 7 life times in prison.

The system ain't right.



tazzygirl -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/10/2013 10:47:53 PM)

Since nikki has opted not to participate in this thread, I will be posting the follow up soon. Thank you all for the great ideas. [:D]



tweakabelle -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/10/2013 10:53:33 PM)

quote:

tazzygirl
Since nikki has opted not to participate in this thread,


Why am I not surprised? [:D]



Hillwilliam -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/11/2013 1:18:34 PM)

I guess Rho didn't like my joke in the other thread. [8D]

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4543522/tm.htm



naughtynick81 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/12/2013 1:12:36 PM)

It's a male issue when a social and political movement that's a substantial size is continuously shaming male sexuality and demanding male sexuality to change as for the "female objectification whinge" while on the other hand aggressively demanding liberation for women's sexuality.



mnottertail -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/12/2013 1:17:27 PM)

One thing I see as a men's issue is my penis, which needs a good sucking.



VideoAdminChi -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/12/2013 4:15:54 PM)

FR,

As a reminder, please stick to the topic, which is not other posters. If certain posters constantly lure you into temptation, please avail yourself of the Hide feature.



PeonForHer -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/12/2013 4:26:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

One thing I see as a men's issue is my penis, which needs a good sucking.


Nonsense. What you really need is a big manly hug, Ron old bean. We men don't give each other big manly hugs. (There you go, Tazzy, another male issue. )

I suppose that the biggest male issue of all is that we don't get to issue - any children, that is. This is on account of we don't have wombs. (That was mostly a joke, albeit a pisspoor one.)



slavekate80 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/12/2013 5:16:20 PM)

OTOH, you can have a lot more biological children. A man can father hundreds, even thousands, of children in his lifetime. I think the female record is 69, with an extremely unusual incidence of multiple births. Even with egg donation now possible, there's a lot more risk and hassle involved with it - I doubt any woman is going to become the biological mother of 1000 donor egg babies. Also, men can continue making babies well into old age, whereas most women's fertility decreases in our 30s and effectively disappears in our 40s.

That could be a positive or a negative for men, depending on your point of view.



naughtynick81 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/12/2013 5:24:20 PM)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2417412/Michael-Le-Vell-WHEN-men-pre-conviction-anonymity-rape-trials.html



naughtynick81 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/12/2013 8:59:38 PM)

Another one for the fanny firsters to think about.

Misandry and aggression against men is real



graceadieu -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/12/2013 10:46:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

Not that there isn't sexism against all genders/sexes, of course, but I've found that men tend to be discriminated against in divorce cases, especially in the past 10 to 20 years. They say it's fair, and even, and then the woman gets the kids, the house, the car, the bank account, and the power over the man's future. We're often considered to be the worst parent, even if we aren't the worst parent, if you know what I mean. You're a man? Well then the kids need to stay away from you. Your job is to make a lot of money and give it to the woman, who will spend it how she likes, tax free, and make all the decisions about the kids.
At least in Canada, anyway.

Hey, you asked. :p


Interesting. In my (admittedly anecdotal experience), that used to be the case. But most of the people I know that've gotten divorced in last 5 years or so, the dad got primary custody and the house and the wife got not much of anything. It think the pendulum is swinging back in the other direction.



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