RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue?

RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (Full Version)

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angelikaJ -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/15/2013 1:37:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle I don't want to be pedantic but wouldn't "women-hating misogynists" have a psychological disorder rather than a belief system? I wouldn't say so. To use an example we're both familiar with Fred Phelps Sr. , seems like the man was mentally ill. The entire church his father had built left when he started preaching his disease. The only ones left where his family who were pretty well stuck. Now his children are stuck believing the same trash not because of a chemical imbalance in their brains but because of the belief system they were raised into. Same thing with misogyny, it doesn't require a chemical imbalance just a good deal of childhood indoctrination. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJQoiPCedj4

naughtynick81 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/15/2013 3:03:15 PM)
I can see it as a male issue when the accusation of "misogynist" gets thrown around so easily and blithely to the point that half to most of the time it's used, it's misused. Similar to the use of the word "patriarchy" as that's also blindly misused more often than not. When someone thinks it's only sexist when this gender does X but not the other gender, I think they may be seriously confused of what equality or equal treatment really stands for. Or not if that, they are perfectly aware of what they are doing and they just simply don't care. They obviously prefer gender double standards in some areas. Why? Because instead of having an open and balanced mind in regards of gender issues and seeing things from a different angle they're not used to, such like being used to the feminist angle, it's an easy way out for them to totally close off their mind and dismiss it as "misogyny".

PeonForHer -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/15/2013 3:11:09 PM)
quote: I can see it as a male issue when the accusation of "misogynist" gets thrown around so easily and blithely to the point that half to most of the time it's used, it's misused. Similar to the use of the word "patriarchy" as that's also blindly misused more often than not. Breathtaking. OK, so could you educate us as to the propaganda-free and correct uses of the words 'misogyny' and 'patriarchy'?

metamorfosis -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/15/2013 3:49:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY ...I don’t get to have excuses and typically at every job I have had (except uniformed service) I have always been the highest educated, usually the most experienced; but always the lowest paid. C’est la vie. I am not allowed to cry or show weakness because the weight of an entire culture has been placed upon my shoulders and the image of the “strong black woman” is always set in front of me and I am expected to live up to that fictitious bitch. I have to concern myself with sexual assault. I have survived 3 in my lifetime. 2 while at work and by my superiors. People take one look at me and assume they know my story and although I am a college educated military veteran everyone assumes I am an uneducated welfare mother. Because If I don’t bring home the money I am instantly judged to be a welfare queen by many in society who seem to have no problem judging me and informing me of the "latest statistics" regarding black women. I have to watch while unfair comparative images of Oprah are thrown in my face as if one black woman who made it big is representative of the story and experiences of all black women. (when actually no one of any race or gender has ever done what she did). People feel at liberty to make comments to me regarding my hair (straight or nappy) Who I date (why are you with that white man?) and even where I live (oh- you live on that side of town?)... That sucks ass.

naughtynick81 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/15/2013 4:30:54 PM)
More awareness of the anti-male bigotry that passes as the everyday norm in societies People whinge about race profiling being bad. I think there is a far more bigger problem with gender profiling. The funny thing is that this problem hardly gets acknowledged while race profiling is an everyday topic in liberal circles.

GotSteel -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/16/2013 6:49:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle I don't want to be pedantic but wouldn't "women-hating misogynists" have a psychological disorder rather than a belief system? So I think that potentially a few different things could be going on. Option 1. Ingroup privilege, it's very common for the ingroup not to be aware of their special status and to have a hard time understanding the complaints of the outgroup. So it is important in these discussions to try and take a step back look at things from a different angle. Maybe we don't see that men are being oppressed because we aren't men... or something...[sm=idea.gif] Option 2. Ingroup privilege, it's very common for the ingroup not to be aware of their special status. As such when that special status goes away, equality feels like oppression. For instance it would be pretty normal for a misogynist to feel oppressed when it's no longer socially acceptable for him to oppress women. Thing about this option is that one would expect to find coherent, consistent arguments. I mean sure they’d be skewed , full of misinformation and disgusting but when they pointed to things those things would be real. We often wouldn’t agree with their interpretations but we would agree that they weren’t just using the voices in their heads as sources. Option 3. quote: ORIGINAL: http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/delusional-disorder Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated. People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted.

cloudboy -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/16/2013 6:57:27 AM)
You remind me of Sanity who lived in Idaho (about 98% white) and was obsessed with how unfair affirmative action was. You and he looked for ways to be upset. From what I see in your postings, everything is about you and how you feel, and there's a big disconnect between that and any real social issue. Trying to make your own subjective, personal feelings a larger social issue is narcissistic. I hate to think what a freudian analysis might uncover.

PeonForHer -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/16/2013 7:23:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 I can see it as a male issue when the accusation of "misogynist" gets thrown around so easily and blithely to the point that half to most of the time it's used, it's misused. Similar to the use of the word "patriarchy" as that's also blindly misused more often than not. You've not answered my last comment, Nick. However, I can see why you'd take exception to the misuse of terms like 'misogynist' and 'patriarchy' when you yourself use such terms as 'feminists' and 'feminism' so scrupulously and carefully.

chatterbox24 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/16/2013 7:38:57 AM)
When we speak of society we speak of ourselves. Each and everyone of us are society. One of the biggest favors we can do for society is to take self off the table. Take I I I ME ME ME away from an issue and try to understand people. But can I really understand being a struggling black woman, if I am a white woman ( trust me I have had serious struggles but different ones)?? I am not a man I don't wear those shoes. I am not lesbian or gay, I can't wear those shoes. I am not my neighbor either, I don't know their internal struggles either. All I can do is try to stay unbiased, take myself out of my bubble and try to understand. I am extremely opinionated, to much so, and I really consciously try to curb it. I was brought up biased but I absolutely refuse to be a follower of it. There is no joy in it, its all full of hate. It takes very hard work to renew the mind, and it is a daily struggle but so worth it, not only for yourself but for humanity as a whole.

naughtynick81 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/16/2013 1:42:16 PM)
quote: You've not answered my last comment, Nick. However, I can see why you'd take exception to the misuse of terms like 'misogynist' and 'patriarchy' when you yourself use such terms as 'feminists' and 'feminism' so scrupulously and carefully. It's very simple, you only call it "that" when its REALLY "that" instead of just mindlessly and blithely throwing the word like "misogyny" around simply because a man disagrees with feminism or expresses male issues. In societies perspective, women/feminists are so so so free to criticise the male gender and talk about women's rights. Society gives them FAR more leeway than men to discuss their issues. While on the other hand, when a man talks about the other side of the story, he is constantly walking on egg shells as the default position in societies mindset is that he's only complaining because he's a misogynist, not because he is perfectly entitled like every woman/feminist is. The word misogyny is mostly used out of prejudice and used as a cheap shaming tactic against a man rather than being used properly and responsibly. I have no respect for the word "misogyny" or "misogynist" anymore as it's so laughably misused. quote: From what I see in your postings, everything is about you and how you feel So when feminists complain about female issues, the same applies or is there a female favouring double standard once again? quote: and there's a big disconnect between that and any real social issue. Real issue? It never ceases to amaze me how male issues can be so fucking obvious, like a bright light glaring in people's faces. It's right there and so irrefutable. Yet some people still choose to totally ignore and deny the fucking massive elephant in the room due to social conditioning that implies men are someone fucking magic who can never be discriminated against. I am always in total disbelief of the sheer ignorance of some people. Anyway, again, if a person thinks it's only sexist when this gender does X but not sexist when another gender does it, I think they have serious fucking problems. They either don't understand what equality truly stands for or they are aware of their actions and they simply want gender double standards in favour of women. If I am sexist simply because I act like how feminists are supposed to act except going in the opposite direction, that means feminists are sexist for being feminists. But as usual, the mindsets of many people in society, it's only sexist when men do it for men.

PeonForHer -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/16/2013 1:58:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 The word misogyny is mostly used out of prejudice and used as a cheap shaming tactic against a man rather than being used properly and responsibly. When used by a certain type of person, shall we say, the word 'feminism' is mostly used out of prejudice and used as a cheap shaming tactic against a different type of people and their beliefs rather than being used properly and responsibly. Me, I learned some while ago to try to avoid the laziness, ignorance and downright nastiness that goes with misusing such terms. Ironically, that came up in college, and in respect of some nutter who kept referring to conservatives as 'fascists'. You allow that, you eventually allow all debate to turn into just an ugly mess of lots of pointless dung-slinging of propaganda from one side to the other. quote: I have no respect for the word "misogyny" or "misogynist" anymore as it's so laughably misused. Pfft. The words 'hoist by your own petard' spring to mind.

naughtynick81 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/17/2013 3:10:22 AM)
Who have I labelled as feminists that aren't feminists?

Zonie63 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/17/2013 6:25:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Me, I learned some while ago to try to avoid the laziness, ignorance and downright nastiness that goes with misusing such terms. Ironically, that came up in college, and in respect of some nutter who kept referring to conservatives as 'fascists'. You allow that, you eventually allow all debate to turn into just an ugly mess of lots of pointless dung-slinging of propaganda from one side to the other. That still happens to a large degree, though. When I was in college, "liberal" was very often equated with "communist," so associating "conservative" with "fascist" might have seemed to be a retaliatory tactic. Such mudslinging still goes on today, so nothing ever really changes. I can't really quite gauge how the term "feminist" has been perceived or associated. Back in the 60s, it would have been considered part of the counter-culture, associated with hippies, liberals, progressives, socialists - the kind of people who would wind up on Nixon's enemies list. Nowadays, feminism seems more or less "mainstream," at least as far as its general politics might go. Feminists have moved up in the areas of business, law, and politics, yet all they really want is an equal seat at the big table, while fully embracing the system and the corporate establishment. So, it might seem as if that nothing else would really change, even if feminism achieved its primary goals of gender equality. We might even get a woman president someday. What if the 2016 President election was between Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin? They're still part of the same political machine; just because they're women doesn't mean anything.

slavekate80 -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/18/2013 9:36:16 AM)
"Feminists" and "women" aren't the same thing. One is a word for people who have adopted a political and social ideology linked to a gender identity. One is a word for people who have that gender identity.

GotSteel -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/18/2013 10:22:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavekate80 "Feminists" and "women" aren't the same thing. One is a word for people who have adopted a political and social ideology linked to a gender identity. One is a word for people who have that gender identity. I think she was saying the he has no idea about either not claiming the feminists and women are the same thing.

ReMakeYou -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/19/2013 12:43:00 AM)
When someone says something batshit like that trans girls are just men trying to impose their privilege in one of the few places formerly denied to them, the usual response is that feminism is not a monolith. When a feminist says something only slightly less batshitty, like that our culture is devoted to oppressing women, it's circulated until someone on the outside points out just how batshitty it is. Then we get the usual response that feminism is not a monolith. Speaking personally, when a community likes making claims like "homosexuality is a political choice", we should be skeptical of new things they say. (Anybody who wants to disprove me, I'd be happy to hear it. Show me actual predictions the community behind "no man can ever be oppressed" got right. Not vague philosophical claims, and not the fact that directing massive resources to a group will benefit them, but actual predictions that came to pass in the actual real world.) P.S: You want to know what a real men's issue is? The idea that a man only counts as a Real Man when he claws his way to the top. Any man who doesn't successfully claw his way up is ignored. When a man does forsake everything else and finally grab that brass ring, he's told that his life was easy street. After all, when we look at men, all we see are a bunch of dudes at the top.

NoBimbosAllowed -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/19/2013 2:49:55 AM)
Men suffer an inability to get their profile altered today. As in MINE. Tried 4 times to get the photo up... Men over 40 suffer the same crap that women over 30 suffer when attempting to garner work in the entertainment industry. Unless they are Dutch or Swedish (check out Geister by Lars von Trier and Real Humans and The Bridge... these Cold Landers hire REAL PEOPLE to be TV drama lead actors and main characters and allow people whom look "normal" to have sex on screen, too...)

NoBimbosAllowed -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/19/2013 2:51:33 AM)
I see I posted below a fellow Aussie. ARGH! Another men's issue! Accidentally being a top placed in a "bottom" position then being forced to "top from the bottom" when actually "emoting" from the TOP!

NoBimbosAllowed -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/19/2013 3:36:58 AM)
men having problems being honest about cancer that locates itself anywhere from the prostrate along to the upper gut, thus affecting erectile function, is a men's issue. Swollen (but benign) prostrate problems are a men's issue. Post trumatic stress from some other dipshit moronic pointlessly-violent to compensate for being too lazy to read a book sportstard attacking you because you refuse to "dumb-it-down" is a men's issue. Fighting against the fact that people NEVER take serious action against meatheads whom are "well connected" and treat other folks as "sport animals" to abuse or attack is a men's issue. Or sis the author want some Oprah/Dr. Phil bullshit answer instead?

VideoAdminChi -> RE: What do you see as a "men's" issue? (9/19/2013 5:18:48 AM)
FR, A number of posts were removed as were posts that replied to them. If your content did not make another poster the topic and you would like it back to repost it, please CMail me. I would like to take this opportunity to remind everybody that there is a Hide button that can be used to hide posters who might otherwise make you susceptible to discussing them rather than the topic.

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