RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (Full Version)

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DesFIP -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/18/2013 6:12:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
And for some, alcohol is a big enough incompatibility issue to kill a relationship.


Fair enough. I'm just surprised it's a big enough incompatibility issue for many people.




My father was a brilliant businessman for many years. He now suffers from alcohol induced dementia. Alcoholism runs in my family, skipping generations.

My son was still in high school when he finally accepted that he has to stay sober, that he has inherited this disease.

So yes, alcohol usage is a big incompatibility issue here.




OsideGirl -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/18/2013 8:21:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP


quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
And for some, alcohol is a big enough incompatibility issue to kill a relationship.


Fair enough. I'm just surprised it's a big enough incompatibility issue for many people.




My father was a brilliant businessman for many years. He now suffers from alcohol induced dementia. Alcoholism runs in my family, skipping generations.

My son was still in high school when he finally accepted that he has to stay sober, that he has inherited this disease.

So yes, alcohol usage is a big incompatibility issue here.
I believe she was referring to those that would view a potential partner expecting them to give up drinking as incompatible.




HerrKeuner -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/19/2013 1:27:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: HerrKeuner
What you mean is that I'm holding to an irrational belief. However, that belief comes from what I'd call perfectly rational questions about its usefulness.

Does alcohol somehow enhance physical performance like, e.g. erythropoietin? Does it bring nutritional advantages that we wouldn't have in its absence? Does it calm thirst or hunger? Do its effects have a positive influence in human beings?

From what I've been able to find out, the answers to all of those questions are "no". Where's the irrational component in rejecting it?

Unless I'm mistaken, there have been studies that moderate drinking of red wine has some pretty good benefits. Two of which are antioxidants for the heart and increasing "good" HDL cholesterol.

Is it the only way to encourage those benefits? No. However, it is an option.



Note that the antioxidants and the HDL cholesterol-enhancing effects are in the grapes, mostly in the skins. I certainly don't mind people consuming grape juice (not a fan of it, though). When I make those questions, I refer purely to the good old CH3CH2OH which seems to be the big deal.




DOM68005 -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/19/2013 2:45:10 AM)

I have posted on my profile that I do not allow alcohol use by a sub under my control.

Historically, I have only had one play sub that insisted she be allowed a small amount to relax her before play began. I gave It was ok because we played long enough, she was safe to drive, etc when we were done. Often that was the next morning.




NuevaVida -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/19/2013 6:52:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HerrKeuner


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


I think you're having trouble maintaining this stance because... it might not be entirely rational.

What you mean is that I'm holding to an irrational belief. However, that belief comes from what I'd call perfectly rational questions about its usefulness.

Does alcohol somehow enhance physical performance like, e.g. erythropoietin? Does it bring nutritional advantages that we wouldn't have in its absence? Does it calm thirst or hunger? Do its effects have a positive influence in human beings?

From what I've been able to find out, the answers to all of those questions are "no". Where's the irrational component in rejecting it?

If this is your gauge, then the same would apply to soda pop, candy, processed foods, chips, cookies, pancakes with syrup, and so on. Would you not want your submissive consuming any of that? Where is your line drawn, or is it solely with alchohol?




thishereboi -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/19/2013 7:08:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dyfrynt
If you expect a sub of yours to not drink, you need to make that declaration up front. Then it is in the sub's hands to decide if they are willing to grant you that authority over them.


Are you saying a sub must pre-approve every conceivable order the dominant might give, before their relationship even starts?



I think he is saying that the dom should be honest up front and tell the sub that he isn't going to allow drinking. My ex told me when we got together that she didn't have a problem with me smoking pot. Then after we got together forbid me from doing it. It was one of the main reasons she went from my Mistress to my girlfriend. Honestly is a wonderful thing.




eulero83 -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/19/2013 7:42:55 AM)

FR

I'll try to give my two cents on all the issues discussed in the thread, sorry if I can't fit the discussion perfectly but saw it late.
I would have the same problems with a smoker, I hate the smell and I can't stand it, so I can understand your point. I'm a social drinker let's say 4 or 5 glass a week can be my average, some periods I don't drink at all for a month, never had a problem with refusing alchoolic drinks when I was not in the mood without giving explanation, but I think nowdays the most common would be "I'm trying to loose some kilograms" or "I'm trying to have a healthier lifestyle" and if this makes your friends to keep distance from you then you have very crappy friends. I don't think you have to join a cult to find not drinkers (and by the way I suppose you are not in a catholic majority area or it will be the opposite), try with groups of people involved in endurance sportive activities, you'll find always a majority of social drinkers but for sure more non drinkers than in a pub.




metamorfosis -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/19/2013 11:48:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I think he is saying that the dom should be honest up front and tell the sub that he isn't going to allow drinking. My ex told me when we got together that she didn't have a problem with me smoking pot. Then after we got together forbid me from doing it. It was one of the main reasons she went from my Mistress to my girlfriend. Honestly is a wonderful thing.


Yes, I realise that's what he was saying. My point was... why would someone need to be more honest about this than every other conceivable problem? Every need, desire, or expectation a person has might be a compatibility issue. Why treat drinking differently than anything else? Because unless you recommend discussing every other conceivable problem before the relationship begins, I don't understand why not disclosing an attitude about drinking could be considered dishonest. If he were adamantly against football or high heel shoes, would people still be recommending he put that in his profile?




DesFIP -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/19/2013 12:13:28 PM)

It doesn't have to be in the profile. But it has to be discussed early on.

What you're missing Pam is that the OP is in Spain, where attitudes toward wine usage are like they are in France. Everyone is expected to drink at parties, meals and meets. If he's looking for someone in his country, then he has to disclose it quickly because what he wants is counter to the normal culture.

It's like expecting someone in the US or Canada to disclose immediately that they are poly. Because the vast majority of people here aren't and won't be okay with it.




Gauge -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/19/2013 12:48:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HerrKeuner


What you mean is that I'm holding to an irrational belief. However, that belief comes from what I'd call perfectly rational questions about its usefulness.

Does alcohol somehow enhance physical performance like, e.g. erythropoietin? Does it bring nutritional advantages that we wouldn't have in its absence? Does it calm thirst or hunger? Do its effects have a positive influence in human beings?

From what I've been able to find out, the answers to all of those questions are "no". Where's the irrational component in rejecting it?



Look, if by now you do not have the guidance that you need specifically and have not taken the points of view given to you into consideration, then I am not certain why you are continuing debating.

You have been given great advice: You don't want a drinker. Don't look for someone that drinks.

I am not certain how much clearer the advice has to be. As someone who has had to think about whether I can have a partner that drinks, I can tell you that to me, as long as the drinking isn't a problem, I am fine with it. If it becomes a problem, then that is chaos I can live without. Your choices are different for yourself, and that is OK, but to continue to debate with people, and not try to understand what they are saying to you, sounds to me like you have more of an agenda than a question.

You are not going to change what people have told you about their own personal feelings. Nor will you persuade them to agree with you if they do not. So why try? Pretty much everyone here has said that if you seek someone that doesn't drink, then do not compromise your stance and find someone that shares your belief system. I do not believe that the advice you have received could be more plainly stated to you. You have also been told how it is possible to adapt a bit more of a flexible position. Whether you want to do so is up to you.

Ultimately this is your decision, it is also fine for other people to not share your viewpoint.





eulero83 -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/19/2013 2:17:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HerrKeuner

What you mean is that I'm holding to an irrational belief. However, that belief comes from what I'd call perfectly rational questions about its usefulness.

Does alcohol somehow enhance physical performance like, e.g. erythropoietin? Does it bring nutritional advantages that we wouldn't have in its absence? Does it calm thirst or hunger? Do its effects have a positive influence in human beings?

From what I've been able to find out, the answers to all of those questions are "no". Where's the irrational component in rejecting it?


sorry but I just read this and could not ignore, using erythropoietin like exampe is just stuip and insane, that's a medication and maybe it can give you a boost in endurance sports but if you are not anemic it will kill you by thrombosis! Than has alchool a positive influence in human beings? yes it gives different levels of pleasure and if not abused can be perfectly integrated in a balanced diet.




MistressDarkArt -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/19/2013 8:56:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

There are women out there who don't drink at all...not one tiny drop, just like you.



I am one of them, so I can attest to that. I have never been drunk in my life; I can't even get drunk if I wanted to because I don't metabolize alcohol. I have 3 partners; two don't drink at all. One might have a mixed drink twice a year though certainly never in my presence, especially if we are at sea where it makes every bit of sense to keep all our wits about us.

As for marijuana, I'm fine with their responsible (and medically approved) use if they choose. It has really helped one's anxiety and insomnia, and one's severe pain from rheumatoid arthritis. They have MD recommendations, and prefer external and sublingual tinctures that relieve their symptoms without making them 'high'. Nobody smokes (herb or anything else) and none of them like being in an altered state (natural endorphins from play excepted, of course.)

Any other non-prescribed drugs: nyet.

To me, it's about conducting life in a responsible, comfortable, joyful and loving fashion. I know dozens of people who do this without excessive (or any) use of substances; you should be able to find one good woman who thinks the way you do about drinking.





NuevaVida -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/19/2013 9:49:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis



Yes, I realise that's what he was saying. My point was... why would someone need to be more honest about this than every other conceivable problem? Every need, desire, or expectation a person has might be a compatibility issue. Why treat drinking differently than anything else? Because unless you recommend discussing every other conceivable problem before the relationship begins, I don't understand why not disclosing an attitude about drinking could be considered dishonest. If he were adamantly against football or high heel shoes, would people still be recommending he put that in his profile?


I'm guessing whatever someone is passionate about should be in their profile. In this case, it's drinking. To someone else, it might be something different. No one is suggesting someone list out every little detail - just the high priority ones.




SailingBum -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/19/2013 11:05:20 PM)

quote:

LadyPact



Unless I'm mistaken, there have been studies that moderate drinking of red wine has some pretty good benefits. Two of which are antioxidants for the heart and increasing "good" HDL cholesterol.

Is it the only way to encourage those benefits? No. However, it is an option.




You are mistaken. At least according to the 7 different heart doctors I spoke with while they were checking out my heart.

BadOne




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/20/2013 3:06:06 AM)

FR:

It's obvious from this thread that a person's intake of alcohol is a very individual and personal matter. Not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic (no one on this thread stated this erroneous assumption, but I'm acquainted with the attitude) or a problem drinker, or someone who needs to reduce or eliminate their intake in order to be healthy.

It is possible to be a healthy happy person who drinks. It's also possible to be a healthy happy person who doesn't.

My personal take is that it's not a good idea to attempt to control someone else's drinking habits. Being supportive of their healthy initiatives is one thing, but when you start to control intake you become the bad cop, the party pooper, and that's a situation guaranteed to put dom and sub on opposite sides, instead of together.

Based on his responses, I agree the OP has some issues with alcohol consumption. But his desire to be paired with someone who shares his stance on drinking is valid.

Back when I was a drinker, everyone around me drank. Now that I'm pretty much a non-drinker, few drink.

There's a lesson there.







JeffBC -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/20/2013 8:15:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HerrKeuner
How would you deal/have you dealt with this questio?

I told her she can't drink any longer. Things like "social consequences" aren't really her concern. Obedience is.




SailingBum -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/20/2013 10:33:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDarkArt

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

There are women out there who don't drink at all...not one tiny drop, just like you.



I am one of them, so I can attest to that. I have never been drunk in my life; I can't even get drunk if I wanted to because I don't metabolize alcohol. I have 3 partners; two don't drink at all. One might have a mixed drink twice a year though certainly never in my presence, especially if we are at sea where it makes every bit of sense to keep all our wits about us.

As for marijuana, I'm fine with their responsible (and medically approved) use if they choose. It has really helped one's anxiety and insomnia, and one's severe pain from rheumatoid arthritis. They have MD recommendations, and prefer external and sublingual tinctures that relieve their symptoms without making them 'high'. Nobody smokes (herb or anything else) and none of them like being in an altered state (natural endorphins from play excepted, of course.)

Any other non-prescribed drugs: nyet.

To me, it's about conducting life in a responsible, comfortable, joyful and loving fashion. I know dozens of people who do this without excessive (or any) use of substances; you should be able to find one good woman who thinks the way you do about drinking.




Please don't tell me you actually believe your statement? You may want to do some basic research on topics before you make statements that are uninformed and inaccurate.

THC the "active" ingredient in weed is a mind altering drug. And Yes it makes everyone "high". THC like a lot of drugs over time your body requires more to get the "same effect". The net effect medical user pretty much smoke non stop.

BadOne




MistressDarkArt -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/20/2013 11:54:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Please don't tell me you actually believe your statement? You may want to do some basic research on topics before you make statements that are uninformed and inaccurate.

THC the "active" ingredient in weed is a mind altering drug. And Yes it makes everyone "high". THC like a lot of drugs over time your body requires more to get the "same effect". The net effect medical user pretty much smoke non stop.

BadOne



BadOne, you must've been out of the medical cannabis loop for the past couple decades. I've done my research, and continue to do it. These days, not all marijuana is bred for high THC content, and not everyone who uses it is interested in getting high. High CBD content cancels out THC effects, and it is the CBDs and CBNs which produce the pain-relieving, anti-cancer and anti-inflammatory responses. There is a strain called 'Charlotte's Web' which is so high in CBDs and low in THC content (1%) it has been prescribed and grown specifically for a little girl who suffered 300 seizures a week. Nothing big pharma made could stop them, and she was dying from the stress on her body. Daily use of this strain in a tincture has controlled them to one seizure a week. Reference: Dr. Sanjay Gupta's CNN documentary 'Weed'.

Last year, I had to be hospitalized and transfused because years of NSAID use (for injuries I won't go into here) caused bleeding ulcers that made me profoundly anemic. I had to stop them immediately and was told to never take them again. I tried OTC tylenol; it was ineffective for pain and the amount needed to even put a dent in it exceeded the protocol guidelines and would have damaged my liver. My doctor offered opioids. I'd had them before and they were effective for pain control. They worked; they did not make me 'high' or euphoric; they just relieved pain. I loved that I was able to return to my activities, but didn't like the physical dependency they produced. It was no day at the beach when I decided to pull the plug and tapered completely off in 10 days. I didn't feel 'right' for 2 months after discontinuation. In the meantime despite acupuncture, physical therapy, yoga, swimming, walking, hiking, cycling, meditation, healthy diet, living on heating pads, pain returned with a vengeance. Really, there was nothing left in Western Medicine (aka big pharma) to help me.

What would you say to a person in my shoes? That using a high-CBD, low-THC tincture shouldn't be available to me for severe pain relief? That if I use it it's because I want to get high? I haven't been 'high' since high school; I hated that feeling then, don't like it now, and don't ingest anything that makes me so.

What would you tell my boy S, who's coped year after year with anxiety, OCD, and insomnia? His MDs put him through round after round of big-pharma anti-depressants, sleeping pills, benzodiazepines (let's talk about about tolerance, and physical dependency here, blessed by a doc!). Nothing brought him relief, and many had such horrible side effects he couldn't continue. A couple drops of an indica glycerin tincture (not an effing drop of alcohol, btw) puts him right in 20 minutes. A few more drops allow him to get to sleep.

What would you tell Cabin Boy, whose late-50s body is wracked with rheumatoid arthritis? He's a marine mechanic, ffs, in business for himself. Every day he has to climb down into boat holds such as yours and repair clogged seawater strainers, blown head gaskets, and heat exchangers with his ravaged hands and twisted back so folks like you can keep on motoring in and out of your slip. No workie, no payee. He has a son to support, and is the caregiver for his geriatric mom. NSAIDS make him sick and give him bleeding ulcers; tylenol doesn't work; he refuses opioids because he considers them 'hard drugs'. The day he stops working is the day he has to go on public assistance and that means his family members would too. Do YOU feel like paying his public assistance when he can grow a plant in his back yard that allows him to continue working, paying taxes, and keeping himself and his family members off the dole?

Two of my band-mates are cancer survivors. One uses high CBD tincture or chews the fresh leaves every day to ward off a recurrence. Cannabis helped him cope with nausea from chemo and radiation. Are you going to tell him he should just 'take it like a man' when he's fighting a life-threatening disease and vomiting up what's left of his guts several times a day?

What would you have said to my sister-in-law who battled cancer for 6 months? She was an RN. She refused morphine for pain relief because it made her nauseous and fuzzy-headed but she did very well for the majority of the time using a cannabis concentrate my brother prepared for her from raw plants. She functioned, thought clearly, and knew she was causing no further harm to body. Ultimately, she succumbed, but her quality of life was greatly improved during the time she had left.

So what if folks have to use medical cannabis daily? Are you going to tell someone on daily insulin, HRT, seizure medication or an antidepressant that they are doing something wrong when their own physician says they need regular daily doses to stay vital, working, and functional?

I suggest you update your research before spouting off that others don't know what they're talking about. Until you've walked a mile in their shoes, you haven't a clue.





SailingBum -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/20/2013 1:48:45 PM)

Wow I'm really not sure where to start with this. Suffice to say I have glaucoma and where I live is a medical state that allows for the treatment of my condition with weed. So my research is very much up to date.

You do understand that cuz you Referenced: Dr. Sanjay Gupta's CNN documentary 'Weed' says so. Does NOT contravene over 50 years "actual medical studies"! You do realize he is a "TV Doc" who's primary goal is to keep ratings up! In much the same way "dr phil" does NOT have a license to practice medicine. Furthermore Dr. Sanjay Gupta's recently went 180 degrees in his position on medical weed. So anyone that cites him as a "source of information" is extremely suspect.

You seem to be putting words into my mouth. What I said was pot smokers get high whatever their motivation. and that is a fact that cannot be disputed. I had to laff at you remark of gobblie goop CBDs counteract THC. If you know anything about modern medicine you would understand that what you describe very rarely happens with any medications.

I would like to suggest that you spend quite a bit of time reading the actual studies on weed for the past 50 or so years, like I have, and not taking Dr. Sanjay Gupta's word. I suspect I have a lot more experience getting wrong advice from docs than you have. Do the actual research before you spout anymore BS. I hope your health improves.

BadOne




sexyred1 -> RE: Different stances on drinking alcohol (9/20/2013 3:39:53 PM)

I have the opposite problem. I never meet men who like to drink.

I am a social drinker and like it when dining out.

No one ever told or asked me not to drink, but since its no fun drinking when your partner doesn't, then I didn't.

It's nice to have similar interests but its not a deal breaker for me.




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