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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: DsBound

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail
But what part of 'Reality' don't 'conservatives' understand? They are borrowing and spending at massively destructive levels.

With medical costs at a ridiculous amount now, Obamacare is not the answer!

OK, we have the most expensive health care in the world and it's about #20 when it comes to quality.
What's the answer?
Unfortunately, the R controlled house has no clue.

While more people will be covered under Obamacare, the most expensive health care in the world will be getting even more expensive. That was what the Forbes' article pointed out.

What you said has absolutely nothing to do with my post.
I wasn't, nor have I ever advocated Obamacare.
My post was about the problem the R side has with running around yelling "this is bad, this is horrible" without offering up anything resembling an alternative.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

But, their opposition to Obamacare certainly shows they have some sort of clue.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail
aging population, fancier treatments, I would not be taking too big a winger to say that with or without Obamacare (and hopefully subsequent fixing legislations) it will become spendier

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
But, their opposition to Obamacare certainly shows they have some sort of clue.

Are you sure about that?
So far, all I've seen them say is that anything the other people say or do is bad.
Do you remember them saying that "Our #1 priority is to make Obama a 1 term president"?
Not running the country
Not getting us out of the sandbox
Not creating jobs
Not lowering the deficit
Not making Americans safe from terrorists.
Not fixing the decrepit infrastructure
The #1 priority was to fight Obama at every turn and make sure he never accomplishes anything.
That doesn't sound like people who have a fucking clue.
Seriously, how many times have they tried to repeal it without offering an alternative? Are they up to 40 yet?
Let it run and if it's as ruinous as they say it is, the American people will beg them to come into power and take it away.
I think the Republicans are deathly afraid that it just might work and they'll be well and truly fucked.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: DsBound

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

But what part of 'Reality' don't 'conservatives' understand? They are borrowing and spending at massively destructive levels.

With medical costs at a ridiculous amount now, Obamacare is not the answer!

OK, we have the most expensive health care in the world and it's about #20 when it comes to quality.

What's the answer?

Unfortunately, the R controlled house has no clue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: DsBound

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail
But what part of 'Reality' don't 'conservatives' understand? They are borrowing and spending at massively destructive levels.

With medical costs at a ridiculous amount now, Obamacare is not the answer!

OK, we have the most expensive health care in the world and it's about #20 when it comes to quality.
What's the answer?
Unfortunately, the R controlled house has no clue.

While more people will be covered under Obamacare, the most expensive health care in the world will be getting even more expensive. That was what the Forbes' article pointed out.

What you said has absolutely nothing to do with my post.
I wasn't, nor have I ever advocated Obamacare.
My post was about the problem the R side has with running around yelling "this is bad, this is horrible" without offering up anything resembling an alternative.

Sure it does. We have the most expensive health care in the world. We are in agreement on that.

Whether the GOP has the answers, I have no idea (their ideas are supported by many and refuted by many). But, their opposition to Obamacare certainly shows they have some sort of clue. Care is going to get that much more expensive as we continue down this road. I believe the article points out that it's going to be almost 20% GDP by 2030 or so.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Sure it does. We have the most expensive health care in the world. We are in agreement on that.
Whether the GOP has the answers, I have no idea (their ideas are supported by many and refuted by many). But, their opposition to Obamacare certainly shows they have some sort of clue. Care is going to get that much more expensive as we continue down this road. I believe the article points out that it's going to be almost 20% GDP by 2030 or so.

People say we have the most expensive health care in the world as if this is an unalloyed bad thing.
When you live in a third world country - the vast majority of your money gets spend on food, shelter. As your country and yourself move up the ladder, you spend less and less time (money) on food, and shelter and start spending it on things like fast food, fast cars, fast women, and... healthcare.
The amount of money that we have to spend on healthcare is more a reflection on the amount of money we have; and the desirability of our health care options; rather than soley an unreasonable cost.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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People say we have the most expensive health care in the world as if this is an unalloyed bad thing.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
But, their opposition to Obamacare certainly shows they have some sort of clue.

Are you sure about that?
So far, all I've seen them say is that anything the other people say or do is bad.
Do you remember them saying that "Our #1 priority is to make Obama a 1 term president"?
Not running the country
Not getting us out of the sandbox
Not creating jobs
Not lowering the deficit
Not making Americans safe from terrorists.
Not fixing the decrepit infrastructure
The #1 priority was to fight Obama at every turn and make sure he never accomplishes anything.
That doesn't sound like people who have a fucking clue.
Seriously, how many times have they tried to repeal it without offering an alternative? Are they up to 40 yet?
Let it run and if it's as ruinous as they say it is, the American people will beg them to come into power and take it away.
I think the Republicans are deathly afraid that it just might work and they'll be well and truly fucked.

They are running the country, or are to their best ability considering the Senate and Executive Branch aren't politically aligned with them.

The GOP isn't sending troops into the sandbox in defiance of the Senate and President.

Conservatives disagree with Liberals on "how" best to create jobs (or, more accurately, to create an environment that will foster an increase in employment). The Democrats aren't helping the Republicans, either. Either party can blame it on the other. Not going to do a damn bit of good, though.

The deficit won't be lowered until spending is decreased. That is something they are trying to do. Democrats don't want to cut spending appreciably, but want to raise tax rates to increase revenue. Same goal, different methods.

How are they not making Americans safe from terrorists?!? WTF?!?

Is it really the duty of the Federal Government to replace/repair the aging infrastructure? I can only agree that it's their duty when it's a Federal road, else it's up to the State, County, City, etc. Better question would be why has our infrastructure been allowed to decay as much as it has?

You really believe the GOP wasn't going to go along with Obama on anything, no matter what? Seriously?

Obamacare isn't going to work. Obamacare isn't going to make health care affordable. All it does is shift costs onto the wallets of those who make more money.

Democrats will always blame Republicans. Republicans will always blame Democrats. If Democrats won't pass (if they even discuss or vote on it) a bill passed in the House, how is it that it's the GOP's fault and not the Senate Democrats? How is it the House GOP's fault when they won't pass (if they even discuss or vote on it) a bill passed in the Senate? At some point in time, you have see that neither party is blameless and that both parties share the blame, and that the shares are pretty much equal.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


People say we have the most expensive health care in the world as if this is an unalloyed bad thing.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


People say we have the most expensive health care in the world as if this is an unalloyed bad thing.

When it's about #20 in quality, that's downright shitty.

Let's put it in terms of cars.

What would you say about the American Auto industry if Americans (except the very wealthy) were forced to drive Yugos and pay 80K each for them while the rest of industrialized world was driving Mercedes, Porches, Jaguars, Beemers, Cadillacs, Audis, etc and paying 20K to 60K for them?
You'd be screaming.

Now US health care isn't quite a Yugo but it's no better than a Chevy Cavalier and we're paying for a Lotus.

What ever happened to "you get what you pay for"?
The American public doesn't.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Probably not. Why are costs going up? We have the most expensive healthcare in the world, with a middling outcome. Where is the money going? It is not going to outcome.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

But you're saying lets make the current system better by making prices go... up?

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Tax the hell out of the people.

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Dismantle the defense system.

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ban all guns

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complain that the government is too small

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make Christianity a crime.

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Oppose anything the right proposes.

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Not too concerned about immigration. Just open the borders and let them in. After all the government can pay for them since they have unlimited funds.

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ORIGINAL: papassion

What part of "REALITY" don't Liberals understand? You cannot give everyone, everything and think it is all going to work out. Forget what education Greece, Spain, etc, etc, etc. got from Liberal ideas. The latest CBO figures show our spending is unstainable.

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Our economy is phony and being propped up by the government printing 85 billion a month out of thin air. The only reason other countries need our dollars is because it is the "international currency" Russia and China are making deals with other countries that don't require purchases between countries in US dollars. When enough countries agree to this, we are screwed and the dollar will become almost worthless. Buy silver and gold to cover your ass when the shit hits the fan.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

But you're saying lets make the current system better by making prices go... up?

No I'm not.

Once again, I do not support Obamacare.
If you've read my posts, you'd note I don't particularly support Obama. (unless you call referring to him as the least effective president in a couple of generations support)
I'm saying that the system is badly broken and the Republicans who control the house would rather see the whole country go down in flames than fix it because they're afraid he might get some inkling of credit.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Probably not. Why are costs going up? We have the most expensive healthcare in the world, with a middling outcome. Where is the money going? It is not going to outcome.

Why are costs going up?
Huge health care conglomerates are raising prices.

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Because there are too few doctor's offices competing.

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because federal regulations means the average cost of delivering a new drug in the us exceed 700 million.

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because threat of tort action makes doctors practice defensive medicine.

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because consumers have no incentive to shop for the best price/services. Since they don't pay for it, they go for the "best" care.

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because hospitals pass the costs of the uninsured onto those that are insured, or pay cash.
And none of these things is obamacare resolving.

The aca also does not address global warming,the escalating cost of fuel,or hunger in apalachia

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: papassion

What part of "REALITY" don't Liberals understand? You cannot give everyone, everything and think it is all going to work out. Forget what education Greece, Spain, etc, etc, etc. got from Liberal ideas. The latest CBO figures show our spending is unstainable.

Perhaps the cost of the adventure in the sand box is too costly?

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Our economy is phony and being propped up by the government printing 85 billion a month out of thin air. The only reason other countries need our dollars is because it is the "international currency" Russia and China are making deals with other countries that don't require purchases between countries in US dollars. When enough countries agree to this, we are screwed and the dollar will become almost worthless. Buy silver and gold to cover your ass when the shit hits the fan.

Is there some econ book that we could look at to validate this mindnumbing stupid opinion?