quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Well, I should hope so. Since it will cost in excess of 1.7 trillion dollars.

Lets do the math here, gracie.

Lets use your figure of a few million people. I'll call that 5 million.

1.7 trillion dollars = 1,700,000,000,000 $
divided by 5,000,000
=========================
340,000 $ / person.

So gracie, by your own math - would you rather have your healthcare - or the government give you $340,000 every year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I have to apologize to the rest of the World on behalf of the USA, who can't seem to get anything done right these day's. Thank's a lot Teabagger's. Making USA the joke of the World, you certainly accomplished that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
But trying to hold hostage the functioning of our government and the paychecks of millions of people in order to force their political opponents to vote against the will of the legislature and their constituency is madness and anarchy and not at all part of our civil governmental process.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

And, guess, what, repeal is also part of our legislative process. Just because it passed and won it's only Constitutional challenge doesn't guarantee it's here to stay. It can still be repealed.

The Republicans have had, what, 42 opportunities to repeal the ACA so far. They can keep at it as long as they like.
What they're doing now, though, is different. They're trying to blackmail the country into accepting a result that the GOP can't achieve legislatively.

quote:

What's more, since the House was set up to be more indicative of the will of the People, the purse strings were given to the HoR.

This is the second time this canard has come up in the thread. As I noted earlier, the House has nothing resembling total purse power. It's the only chamber that can originate revenue bills, but anything passed by the House still needs to clear the Senate and the Oval Office.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Why? I haven't notice an iota of difference.

Two thoughts:

(a) I did. My colleagues and I trudged home with bags full of work. We'll be toiling at home, since the government building that houses our nonprofit is closed. A travel writer friend got ejected from a national park. Several fellow Washingtonians wondered if they'd get paid in time to make the rent--or ever, for that matter. I couldn't get the research materials I need for a work project because the Smithsonian library that has them was shut. The National Zoo was eerily empty on a gorgeous, perfect-for-zoogoing day. The businesses across the street wondered what will happen to their bottom lines without tourist revenue. Ditto for cabbies. ABC reported that NIH is turning new patients away.

(b) As the old saying goes, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

And, guess, what, repeal is also part of our legislative process. Just because it passed and won it's only Constitutional challenge doesn't guarantee it's here to stay. It can still be repealed.

The Republicans have had, what, 42 opportunities to repeal the ACA so far. They can keep at it as long as they like.
What they're doing now, though, is different. They're trying to blackmail the country into accepting a result that the GOP can't achieve legislatively.

quote:

What's more, since the House was set up to be more indicative of the will of the People, the purse strings were given to the HoR.

This is the second time this canard has come up in the thread. As I noted earlier, the House has nothing resembling total purse power. It's the only chamber that can originate revenue bills, but anything passed by the House still needs to clear the Senate and the Oval Office.

Yes, that is correct, but spending bills must originate in the House, so there is some power over the purse, eh?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

And, guess, what, repeal is also part of our legislative process. Just because it passed and won it's only Constitutional challenge doesn't guarantee it's here to stay. It can still be repealed.

The Republicans have had, what, 42 opportunities to repeal the ACA so far. They can keep at it as long as they like.
What they're doing now, though, is different. They're trying to blackmail the country into accepting a result that the GOP can't achieve legislatively.

quote:

What's more, since the House was set up to be more indicative of the will of the People, the purse strings were given to the HoR.

This is the second time this canard has come up in the thread. As I noted earlier, the House has nothing resembling total purse power. It's the only chamber that can originate revenue bills, but anything passed by the House still needs to clear the Senate and the Oval Office.

Yes, that is correct, but spending bills must originate in the House, so there is some power over the purse, eh?

Funny 1/2 of 1/2 of the legislative machinery of the US and right wingers keep insisting they should have all the power. By that logic shouldn't the President, who is a full 1/2 of the process and very difficult to circumvent, be considered to have far more power?

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
But trying to hold hostage the functioning of our government and the paychecks of millions of people in order to force their political opponents to vote against the will of the legislature and their constituency is madness and anarchy and not at all part of our civil governmental process.

Sorry, but that's what is called "leverage."

Also part of our civil government process.

• The only reason that our nation's airports haven't shut down is because the traffic controllers and TSA agents are working without pay.
  
  
• The only reason the National Weather Service that lets us predict the weather is staying open is because those guys are working without pay.
  
  
• The reason our borders remain open (and reasonably secure) is because Border Patrol & Customs are working without pay.
  
  
• The guys that safeguard our nuclear weapons are working without pay.
  
  
• The federal court system has enough money to operate for two weeks, and will then shut down. Federal prison guards are not being paid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

They got paid on Monday, and they'll get paid again, just as soon as the Democrats agree to any of the Republican bills to fund government operations.

How does one reconcile the President declaring he will not negotiate, with claims that this all the Republicans fault? Wasn't he the guy so thrilled to point out that elections have consequences?

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
But trying to hold hostage the functioning of our government and the paychecks of millions of people in order to force their political opponents to vote against the will of the legislature and their constituency is madness and anarchy and not at all part of our civil governmental process.

Sorry, but that's what is called "leverage."

Also part of our civil government process.

Shutting down the government is not part of having a responsible civil government. Neither is threatening to default on our national debts.

It's like if you told your boss "double my pay, or I'll smash up the office with a sledgehammer". That's leverage, sure, but it sure as hell isn't responsible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Well, I should hope so. Since it will cost in excess of 1.7 trillion dollars.

Lets do the math here, gracie.

Lets use your figure of a few million people. I'll call that 5 million.

1.7 trillion dollars = 1,700,000,000,000 $
divided by 5,000,000
=========================
340,000 $ / person.a

So gracie, by your own math - would you rather have your healthcare - or the government give you $340,000 every year.

Wow. Completely factless and made up numbers.

I can do math too.

I estimate the government shutdown costs the US economy $1 trillion per day.
The US population is around 330 million so the shutdown is costing each American $3000 per day.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

They got paid on Monday, and they'll get paid again, just as soon as the Democrats agree to any of the Republican bills to fund government operations.

How does one reconcile the President declaring he will not negotiate, with claims that this all the Republicans fault? Wasn't he the guy so thrilled to point out that elections have consequences?

Because the President won re election and in reality the Democrats received more votes for the House than did the Republicans. If the GOP had not taken gerrymandering to ridiculous extremes after the 2010 elections the GOP would be in the minority even in the House. So in reality, separate from conservative fantasy land, the House Republicans have no mandate and are destined to be viewed by history as the last gasp of a fundamentally corrupt organization.

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

I would like to remind everyone that:

• The only reason that our nation's airports haven't shut down is because the traffic controllers and TSA agents are working without pay.
  
  
• The only reason the National Weather Service that lets us predict the weather is staying open is because those guys are working without pay.
  
  
• The reason our borders remain open (and reasonably secure) is because Border Patrol & Customs are working without pay.
  
  
• The guys that safeguard our nuclear weapons are working without pay.
  
  
• The federal court system has enough money to operate for two weeks, and will then shut down. Federal prison guards are not being paid.

How long do you think these people are going to be willing to work unpaid?

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Why? I haven't notice an iota of difference.

Two thoughts:

(a) I did. My colleagues and I trudged home with bags full of work. We'll be toiling at home, since the government building that houses our nonprofit is closed. A travel writer friend got ejected from a national park. Several fellow Washingtonians wondered if they'd get paid in time to make the rent--or ever, for that matter. I couldn't get the research materials I need for a work project because the Smithsonian library that has them was shut. The National Zoo was eerily empty on a gorgeous, perfect-for-zoogoing day. The businesses across the street wondered what will happen to their bottom lines without tourist revenue. Ditto for cabbies. ABC reported that NIH is turning new patients away.

(b) As the old saying goes, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

DC, you live in the heart of the federal government. Of course this is having a major impact there. I hear your city also has been doing really well, while some of us have been living in 16% unemployment for years.

None are so blind as those who think their view is the only one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NoBimbosAllowed


'And on average - the us worker has gotten a 26% haircut in wages under obama's presidency. Don't cry too hard about being furloughed a couple of weeks. '


Does that include Banking CEO's and their like? and the frat-wanks that caused the crises that led to this thread?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

I would like to remind everyone that:

• The only reason that our nation's airports haven't shut down is because the traffic controllers and TSA agents are working without pay.
  
  
• The only reason the National Weather Service that lets us predict the weather is staying open is because those guys are working without pay.
  
  
• The reason our borders remain open (and reasonably secure) is because Border Patrol & Customs are working without pay.
  
  
• The guys that safeguard our nuclear weapons are working without pay.
  
  
• The federal court system has enough money to operate for two weeks, and will then shut down. Federal prison guards are not being paid.

How long do you think these people are going to be willing to work unpaid?

Actually, none of that is true.