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RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/2/2006 7:55:04 PM   
tasha_tart


Posts: 385
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

My question: Maybe Harry (of the movie "Harry and Sally") was right. Can men and women ever really be 'just friends'?  

Of course they can.  Over the years, my closest friends have been women.  Though I must say, in the unlikely event that any of them wanted to "do" me, they were very quiet about it.

Maybe I am just being unreasonable? We have good conversation and can connect on so many other levels. I hope they don't stay mad. Is it wrong to for me to want true friendship?

I don't think you're unreasonable at all.  If you want to keep the friendship, and sense that moving to a different level will damage the friendship, those are your feelings.  Whether you are "right" or "wrong" is immaterial.  It is how you feel.
 
Most people get past the "if you were really my friend you'd sleep with me" stage in high school, maybe college.

I realize it can be boring if that's "all there is" - am I being unreasonable?

If a friendship is "boring"...if you feel it needs sex to make it something special...then maybe it isn't such a great friendship to start with.
 
I'm not saying that sex will ruin a friendship; though it certainly can.  What I am saying (I think) is if it feels wrong to you, go with that feeling.
 
Tasha


- Susan


 

_____________________________


"Sex without love is an empty experience. But as empty experiences go, it's one of the better ones."...Woody Allen

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/2/2006 8:32:48 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		I've never really figured out the answer to this myself. For most of my life, most of my close friends have been women. Rarely, if ever, have those friendships turned into romantic relationships. I can probably count on one hand how many that turned that way. For me, it is kind of a losing battle any way you look at it. When I establish a friendship with a woman, I go out of my way to be a guy she can trust and not have to worry about me trying to "score" or do anything that would make her feel less comfortable in a relationship. This pretty much hurts any chance of anything deeper, but at the same time I understand that it's usually my fault right off the start.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/2/2006 8:41:38 PM   
irishbynature


Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		Susan,

You always have the most insightful posts and I enjoy reading them.

First, you are in a "healing phase" and as you said, you are probably not ready for anything hot and heavy.

As far as having men as friends? I think it's possible, yes...I've have one very close male friend whom I worked with for 3 years and we confided often. I guess the friendship began out of mutual interests in our jobs/discussing related topics; however, the boundaries were in place from the beginning. Perhaps men and women don't set enough boundaries in the beginning of a friendship? Not sure. But, I have had successful friendships with men that went no further than "best buddies"

Warmly,
Irish

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/3/2006 12:05:00 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks to everyone who answered - it really helped me (you don't know how  much).

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to irishbynature)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 3:32:31 AM   
KennelDeSade2


Posts: 210
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		When asked by a girl I know if I thought men and women can be friends without sex, so I told her that I would let her in on the secret code word that I used for friends of mine that I am not having sex with.   And now, I'll let you in on it as well.  I call these special friends, "men."

_____________________________

Rules? Just one: I say, she does.
Everything else, is just details.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 2:55:03 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I think some men and some women can be non sexual friends. However, it appears as though this 'friend' isn't much of one. How about turning his comment around and saying that if he really cared about you, he wouldn't push you to do something you aren't ready for?

If he really was the true friend you want him to be, then he would accept no and would want you to heal, as opposed to trying to use you when you're vulnerable. I suggest you see a lot less of him and go with real friends, who accept the validity of your feelings and that you have every right to mourn in your own way, at your own time schedule.

(in reply to KennelDeSade2)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 3:10:07 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		Hon, if he's your friend, he won't push for sex until you're both ready -- he'll do what many of us do, and make do with the built-in equipment the Universe gave us to take care of ourselves, or he'll find another outlet.

If he's pushing you to do something you're not ready for and are trying HARD to stay true to yourself on, and clearly doesn't care about what's good for you in all of this, he's not a friend, no matter how many nice words he spouts. Friends don't do things like that to friends -- or if they do, because they weren't thinking, and they get called on it, they STOP.

ZWD

_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 3:28:42 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		He got laid elsewhere last week-end and is now "sated" (I am getting the impression), so it isn't an issue (for me, for now). But I really do appreciate the advice because it may become a problem again. If it does, it's nice to know I can read this thread again. Thank you (a whole lot) - everyone, for the advice.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 3:35:42 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO


I admit, though I've noted in another place that I usually read through the whole thread first before I answer, this time I wanted to read your post first Susan...then answer it alone.  Then, I'll go through the rest of the thread and see if my thoughts are different.

quote:

I find myself in an odd situation (especially, maybe, for someone on a bdsm website). Or maybe it's not that odd (which is why I am writing). Any constructive advice or opinions are appreciated.

I am in a "healing phase" and really am trying to stick with my self-imposed rule of no sex with anyone I  really care about (or think I could sometime) right now (until I am ready, which may be a couple of months).

I have someone who has become a very dear friend and now they want me to do them. I don't want to (well, I actually do but I'm not going to) - and said that and now they are hurt and mad at me. I sent them flowers, but don't know if it will help). I am female - and there are times I can turn my emotions on and off like a water faucet to facilitate "no strings" sex I guess, but they are few and far between.
  
You're trying hard to get over what was at best, from what you've stated elsewhere, a difficult and trying time.  Seems to me like your recognition of not being ready for something like this speaks well of you.  As for no-strings sex...personally, if you have to turn the emotions off to do it, I wouldn't want to be there for it.

quote:

 I tried to explain to this person that:

1) If we do this, I promise you I will probably become (more) attached to you. Sure you're ready for that? I'm not.


Again, this makes sense to me.  You recognize that the attachment would not be due to the factors it probably should be due to but rather to things that are not maybe all that lasting or solid. 

quote:

2) And if I really end up liking you even more than ever I will practically become a stalker - want that? I am not sure I do. I don't want to hurt them and they don't seem aware of how big a psycho I might become if I am not ready (do I have to prove it? Hope not). As far as me "wanting them" or not - I certainly do - and I said if they knew how much they'd maybe be blown away (this was probably stupid of me, but I was trying to assure them this isn't about them, it's about me - just this once). 


You tried to make it clear to them that you were not ready and let them know that patience would be a big helping hand in this.  You also let them know that it isn't them or their attractiveness (or lack of it) to you, it is due to your own factors.  Personally, I'd appreciate the gracious refusal and the explanation along with being complimented.  

quote:

They aren't really (I don't think) taking what I say all that seriously because they seem like they are just saying what I want to hear. I haven't dated anyone in years and I do forget how this works. I don't want them to just say what they think I want to hear - I want them to be honest (with themselves and with me. Maybe they are being honest). 
Only you can judge that, Susan because you are the only one on here dealing with someone whom you know much more intimately than the rest of us do.  It seems to me like you are doing a good job of recognizing what you want within yourself...you recognize that you are attracted to him...it seems to me like you should be able to listen to what he says and decide if it rings true with all that you know about him.  Some guys (and girls) ARE B.S. artists but usually...sooner or later...the contradictions; words vs. actions, etc. catch up with them.

quote:

My question: Maybe Harry (of the movie "Harry and Sally") was right. Can men and women ever really be 'just friends'?  Maybe I am just being unreasonable? We have good conversation and can connect on so many other levels. I hope they don't stay mad. Is it wrong to for me to want true friendship? I realize it can be boring if that's "all there is" - am I being unreasonable?
It depends.  Are you holding out the promise that "if he'll just wait awhile", then the next step (sex) will come as a sure thing or have you made it extremely clear that you do not want it right now and may not in the future?  From what you posted earlier, I would say that you have made it clear that it is hands off for now even while reassuring him.  But in your reassurance, did you make an offhand promise?  If you did, then you may not be coming across as unreasonable but, in his mind, you may be more confused than what you really are in your own mind.

I have women that are friends.  Is there sexual tension between us?  With some, sure.  With some, not a chance...but I don't like them any less because of it.  I personally think that men and women can be friends and that no one, man or woman, has the right to expect there to be a fulfillment of whatever sexual desire there may be.  However, in the real world we all live in...some might not go for that.  If they realize that there is little chance for a sexual union to take place, they may remain friends but it will be at a distance.  That is not necessarily wrong...for some, it might just be a matter of protecting their own feelings and an acceptance that it most likely isn't going to happen.  The distance also gives them the opportunity to seek more likely fulfillment elsewhere.


(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 3:54:44 PM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I know people have things like _k buddies, but I don't know if I want to turn him into one (he means more than that to me). I imagine many men just laugh inside when they hear this kind of talk (is that true? Do you?)

Thanks for the opinions - nice to know it can work out as friends. I probably will do him (just maybe not now, if he lets me)...

-Susan


Explain that to him if you can - if he really cares about you, he'll go from there.

Sure, you'll probobly scare the unholy shit out of him - laughter is often used to disguise fear - but again, if he cares about you as a person, he'll get over it one way or another, given a bit of time to assess his feelings.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 4:09:45 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well thanks guys. I made it clear I wasn't ready for sex (because I do get attached to people when I have sex - it's a rare woman that doesn't, I think - but I am probably wrong about that).I wasn't "promising" anything in the future (they know that). I am attracted to them (no doubt about it). I think about sex, but know I am in a dangerous spot right now. Besides, isn't it nice (snore, yawn) if you can at least be freinds on some level first? We are, but I am not ready, and was hoping this was one where we could be "just friends". They now say they are okay with that (Good. Hope that's true).

- Susan  

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Amaros)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 7:39:46 PM   
stockingluvr54


Posts: 673
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		Just read the first 20 posts or so and also checked out your profile and read that also. JMHO... but girl.....me thinks you need some more time to let the dust settle from your recent loss.....???  Give it up when YOU are ready/comfortable....If he's a TRUE friend/buddy....he'll more than understand without question!  If he's just another swingin dick....he'll get all pissy and put it back on you...like you might be the problem?  JMHO....

Good luck to ya.....

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 7:50:23 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you stockingluvr.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to stockingluvr54)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 8:05:07 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Susan if he really cared about you he would do your laundry.


I disagree, if he really cared about you he would guilt you in to
giving him a blowjob between wash cycles, so that you could cry
yourself to sleep for weeks afterward.

At least the sheets would be clean.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Wulfchyld)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 8:09:38 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Too funny, Sinergy!

- Ssuan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 8:29:36 PM   
zenofeller


Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline 		i still think you should do him.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: If you really cared about me, you'd do me - 7/6/2006 8:53:19 PM   
SCORPIOXXX


Posts: 223
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline 		OK Susan, we need more information about this guilt-tripper: are you sure he is not some priest or jewish mother, disguised as a guy?

Try this: find a very cold stream, both of you get naked, get in the water and do the frikkin' laundry, lol! If the water is cold enough, sex will NOT be an issue -- and if his colors run, it won't be on your whites (groan...)

Seriously, though, the guy really is a whiner and an emotional blackmailer... The traits of a cheap con man... Do you need that?

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 77
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