RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case

RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 3:30:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Well if they should ever think they need firearms, they're obviously mistaken and have simply forgotten the wisdom that caused them to be rid of them in the first place. I think we should try to help them recover their senses, not just stiff them. Maybe we could ship them some nice posters, for example. Enough of these should get them back on track and solve the problem. K, if things kick off over here again between the UK and some foreign aggressor, could you ship me over one of the guns you used to use as a young man? I've always wanted to have a musket.

Phydeaux -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 3:32:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: To destroy perfectly good firearms is just about the most illogical, irrational, asinine misguided foolishness there is on the face of the earth. quote: To destroy perfectly good human lives is just about the most illogical, irrational, asinine misguided foolishness there is on the face of the earth. OK, in light of the thread-title, to recall: "Innocent bystander killed in SYG case" - which one of the above statements rings the more true - yours, the first one - or the second? Just a thought. ;-) How about cars? The Obama administration spent billions of dollars buying cars - and then destroyed them. Not gave em to the poor. Destroyed them. Suppose that's a good idea too?

PeonForHer -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 3:36:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux How about cars? Pfft. We live in a capitalist system, Phydeaux. That, to me, is just one of the insane things that happens as a result.

eulero83 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 3:47:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin I don't really give a rats ass about your gun control or your statistics. If you're happy with it, I'm tickled pink. You can have your cameras on every street corner too. I don't want them either. There was a time 30 or more years ago, here in the USA, that we didn't have a gun problem we have now and we had more guns per capita back then. There is a whole lot more to the gun problem than just gun availability. The countless civilians being slaughtered are mostly drug gang related idiots shooting each other. And the way you use the term obsession is highly exaggerated. We don't display an obsession with guns until some crooked politician starts trying to take them away. reality seems different anyway as someone pointed out the topic was about a moron justified in an homicide not on gun control, and going nuts talking about possession control in any thread that is about gun usage makes you look obsessed. If you think to be safer when convicted criminals own guns than when they don't and people can with no consequences shoot whoever thay want in a public road from their front yard, you'll never feel better protected.

lovmuffin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 3:47:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: To destroy perfectly good firearms is just about the most illogical, irrational, asinine misguided foolishness there is on the face of the earth. quote: To destroy perfectly good human lives is just about the most illogical, irrational, asinine misguided foolishness there is on the face of the earth. OK, in light of the thread-title, to recall: "Innocent bystander killed in SYG case" - which one of the above statements rings the more true - yours, the first one - or the second? Just a thought. ;-) I think I'll go along with both points. Just because you destroy one it doesn't mean its a solution to the other.

Phydeaux -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 3:48:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic To declare quote: : To destroy perfectly good firearms is just about the most illogical, irrational, asinine misguided foolishness there is on the face of the earth. Is far worse,to any regular person, I would hope. Who died and made you an expert on what a regular person is ? Maybe to you, the collection of firearms, from civilians who were prepared and then ready to sacrifice their lives to defend the country with them, only to destroy them is rational and normal. I disagree. At least they could have sent them back to where they came with a thank you note. The guns didn't come from civillians, they were military supplies, not personal firearms. And, by not returning them, we were hoping your gun-toting and illogical obsession with personal firearms might subside and make you see some real common sense. Sadly, we couldn't do that and since then we see countless thousands every day being slaughtered by civilians with guns. You only have to compare the numbers (deaths per 100,00 of population) - UK: 0.25 (strict gun control) Australia: 1.06 (strict gun control) USA: 10.3 (no gun control) Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate So the USA is 41x more dangerous with guns than the UK without them. Take your pick; I know where the more rational decision was made. Yeah, this is a pretty common fallacy that's pretty easy to defeat. British gun deaths per capita went UP after the passage of gun laws. Markedly. So the brits live on a small island, with controlled access. They have a more homogenous population. So they had markedly low rates of violence. This has no bearing therefore on whether gun laws are a good idea. Switzerland requires gun ownership. With a per capita death rate of .52 it has lower death rates than most countries with gun control. Proving again - it aint the law. Britain has markedly higher rates of violence than the US does. So you are many times more likely to get mugged or raped in the Uk than in the US. Finally - gun ownership is increasing - violence by guns is decreasing.

lovmuffin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 3:49:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin The next time your countrymen need firearms in an emergency, I'll think twice before making any donations. Well if they should ever think they need firearms, they're obviously mistaken and have simply forgotten the wisdom that caused them to be rid of them in the first place. I think we should try to help them recover their senses, not just stiff them. Maybe we could ship them some nice posters, for example. Enough of these should get them back on track and solve the problem. [image]http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/no-guns-icon.jpg[/image] K. Kewl idea K. They work so well over here.

Phydeaux -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 3:51:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux How about cars? Pfft. We live in a capitalist system, Phydeaux. That, to me, is just one of the insane things that happens as a result. We may live in a capitalist system. But you can't blame that action on capitalism. There was nothing capitalistic about it. Try socialism. Or more accurately, cronyism, since protecting GM's democratic unions was what it was really about.

lovmuffin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 4:15:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 anyway as someone pointed out the topic was about a moron justified in an homicide not on gun control, and going nuts talking about possession control in any thread that is about gun usage makes you look obsessed. I guess looks are deceiving. It would seem you're obsessed with your anti gun nonsense. Why don't guys stop with it then ? Though it does seem that someone brought up the subject relating to the moron and SYG, gun control and whatever. I simply jumped into it after it all started. quote: ORIGINAL: If you think to be safer when convicted criminals own guns than when they don't and people can with no consequences shoot whoever thay want in a public road from their front yard, you'll never feel better protected. I don't think any of that nor did I say anything like it. I would challenge you to find anywhere that I did. In fact, as for ".......people can with no consequences shoot whoever thay want in a public road from their front yard,......" If you check out what I wrote on the previous page you'll see I said exactly the opposite. Way to go making shit up.

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 4:30:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin No I didn't miss it Mr Genius. So what, who cares what the dates were ? I even read the part where you stated British equipment was abandoned, and again, so what ? It has nothing to do with the point and the fact that civilians were unarmed mostly because of your stupid gun control. I know what O-V-E-R means and once again, so what ? The point was, and I apologize for not spelling it out for you, that not only did you go back to the same stupid gun control that required the need for Americans to send guns, but on top of that you destroyed them. To destroy perfectly good firearms is just about the most illogical, irrational, asinine misguided foolishness there is on the face of the earth. Please forgive me, I dont know what the fuck I was thinking. It was stupid of me to point out chronological order, whilst talking about a timeline of events. Come to that, what the fuck were we Brits thinking. Bringing in gun controls so we have had less gun related massacres in 100 years than you have had in the last one or two. And imagine that, we destroy perfectly good guns in order to save the lives of people....... How crass is that. [8\|]

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 4:34:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Got to say I loved the idea of the NRA being used as an unbiased source. [sm=donttaseme.gif] Got to say you obviously didn't read or even click on the links. Obviously, that is another word which you dont understand. Your first link was from the American Rifleman, official magazine to the NRA.

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 4:48:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Who died and made you an expert on what a regular person is ? Maybe to you, the collection of firearms, from civilians who were prepared and then ready to Yeah, this is a pretty common fallacy that's pretty easy to defeat. British gun deaths per capita went UP after the passage of gun laws. Markedly. So the brits live on a small island, with controlled access. They have a more homogenous population. So they had markedly low rates of violence. This has no bearing therefore on whether gun laws are a good idea. Switzerland requires gun ownership. With a per capita death rate of .52 it has lower death rates than most countries with gun control. Proving again - it aint the law. Britain has markedly higher rates of violence than the US does. So you are many times more likely to get mugged or raped in the Uk than in the US. Finally - gun ownership is increasing - violence by guns is decreasing. Well done with the cherry picking of Data. Yes gun killings did rise for a year or two after Dunblane, I have pointed out before this was due to troops returning from the Balkans and guns being smuggled in by criminal gangs. It only lasted a couple of years or so. But since then we have had no incidents of multiple shootings in schools. Your suggestion our crime rate is higher is also wrong.

BamaD -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 6:42:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 FR I just read this Mr. Scott court records... "fight crime shoot first" was sarcasm? It is kind of a joke. And it certainly doesn't mean what it is being portrayed to mean.

BamaD -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 6:46:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD What I meant is for our culture not prosecuting a person that shoots random cars driving/parked on a public road is like not prosecuting the rapist in UAE because he was justified under sharia's law. He took unnecessary risks and ended up killing an innocent person. It was obvious what you meant but the idea of locking up the person who didn't commit a crime is the closer comparison. I repeate the fact there is no law to prevent a person who collected 7 years of jail time convictions for illegal carry of handguns, illegal guns trade, drug possession with intention of distribution, handling stolen goods, stolen car possession, driving under suspension and domestic violence, to have a gun and just walk in an open area and shoot in the road to every passing car killing an innocent bystander and lie to police when qquestioned (I wonder why if he was so sure his actions were right) is absurd, insane and unfair. But if you feel safer for that way, organize posses and just kill anybody on the road seems suspect. edit: he broke a law for any kind of crime: property, violent, drug, guns, traffic... If he had a felony conviction as you claim he could not have had the firearm legally and would have been charged accordingly long ago.

BamaD -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 6:50:50 PM)
we see countless thousands every day being slaughtered by civilians with guns. You do realize that A that would mean over 700,000 fatalities with firearms a year B that is absurd

lovmuffin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 7:01:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Got to say I loved the idea of the NRA being used as an unbiased source. [sm=donttaseme.gif] Got to say you obviously didn't read or even click on the links. Obviously, that is another word which you dont understand. Your first link was from the American Rifleman, official magazine to the NRA. OOPs, you're right, my bad. I wonder where The American Rifleman came up with all that shit. 1. New York Times, Nov. 9, 1938, 24. 2. Gerald Schawb, The Day the Holocaust Began (New York: Praeger, 1990), 22. 3. New York Times, Nov. 11, 1938, 1, 4. 4. The Holocaust, Vol. 3, The Crystal Night Pogrom, John Mendelsohn, ed. (New York: Garland, 1982), 183-84. 5. Die Deutsche Wochenschau, No. 506, 15 May 1940, UfA, Ton-Woche. 6. Major H. von Dach, Total Resistance (Boulder: Paladin Press, 1965), 169. Earlier published as Dach, Der Totale Widerstand (Biel: SUOV, 2nd ed., 1958). 7. New York Times, July 2, 1940, 20. 8. New York Times, Jan. 4, 1941, 7. 9. 87 CONG.REC., 77th Cong., 1st Sess., 6778 (Aug. 5, 1941). 10. Id. at 7102 (Aug. 13, 1941). 11. Property Requisition Act, P.L. 274, 77th Cong., 1st Sess., Ch. 445, 55 Stat., pt. 1, 742 (Oct. 16, 1941). See. Halbrook, "Congress Interprets the Second Amendment," 62 Tennessee Law Review 597, 618-31 (Spring 1995). 12. Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews (New York: Homes and Meir, 1985), 341, 318, 297. 13. Yitzhak Arad et al. eds., The Einsatzgruppen Reports (New York: Holocaust Library, 1989), ii. 14. Id. at 233, 306, 257-58, 352-53, 368. 15. Reichsgesetzblatt, I, 759 (4 Dec. 1941). 16. "The Nazi Deadline," American Rifleman, February 1942, at 7. 17. American Rifleman, Nov. 1940. 18. E.g., Report of the Adjutant General for 1945, at 23-24 (Richmond, Va., 1946); U.S. Home Defense Forces Study 58-59 (Office of Ass't Sec. of Defense 1981). 19. See Rotem (Kazik), Simha, Memoirs of a Warsaw Ghetto Fighter, (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1994), 118-19; David I. Caplan, "Weapons Control Laws: Gateways to Victim Oppression and Genocide," in To Be a Victim: Encounters with Crime and Injustice, eds. Diane Sank and David I. Caplan (New York: Plenum Press, 1991), 310. 20. Letter of Pres. Truman to C.B. Lister, NRA Sec.-Treas., Nov. 14, 1945.

BamaD -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 7:24:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD What I meant is for our culture not prosecuting a person that shoots random cars driving/parked on a public road is like not prosecuting the rapist in UAE because he was justified under sharia's law. He took unnecessary risks and ended up killing an innocent person. It was obvious what you meant but the idea of locking up the person who didn't commit a crime is the closer comparison. I repeate the fact there is no law to prevent a person who collected 7 years of jail time convictions for illegal carry of handguns, illegal guns trade, drug possession with intention of distribution, handling stolen goods, stolen car possession, driving under suspension and domestic violence, to have a gun and just walk in an open area and shoot in the road to every passing car killing an innocent bystander and lie to police when qquestioned (I wonder why if he was so sure his actions were right) is absurd, insane and unfair. But if you feel safer for that way, organize posses and just kill anybody on the road seems suspect. edit: he broke a law for any kind of crime: property, violent, drug, guns, traffic... The only thing I have been able to find on a conviction is a man by the same name in Memphis are you sure that isn't who you are thinking about.

lovmuffin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 7:52:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Please forgive me, I dont know what the fuck I was thinking. It was stupid of me to point out chronological order, whilst talking about a timeline of events. I forgive you and I don't think it was stupid to point out chronological order. I just don't see what it has to do with the point I was trying to make. quote: ORIGINAL: Come to that, what the fuck were we Brits thinking. Bringing in gun controls so we have had less gun related massacres in 100 years than you have had in the last one or two. And imagine that, we destroy perfectly good guns in order to save the lives of people....... How crass is that. Really, what were you thinking. Different time, different place and different cultures. At this point in time, your vision of UK gun control for the US won't work. The problem goes much deeper than simple gun availability. And I've said before, the gun availability ship sailed a long time ago.

Lucylastic -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 8:15:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD The only thing I have been able to find on a conviction is a man by the same name in Memphis are you sure that isn't who you are thinking about. FFS I gave you the link, I told you to look up his full name and note the address, but as you seem unable to do a deep search, here ya go http://www5.rcgov.us/SCJDWEB/PublicIndex/PISearch.aspx search for his full name and when I mean record, I clarify I mean his court record, not his criminal record. Please note his address as beltline road in his later charges... now heres a pic of his appearances in court, would you like me to do ALL the work for you? [image]local://upfiles/228382/423037A9CF9D487A9F0895D0BCCF70AB.jpg[/image]

BamaD -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 8:23:25 PM)
All that an no mention of jail time.

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