RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case

RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Lucylastic -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 8:36:36 PM)
LMFAO...oh boy the contempt level crested. Im outta here

BitYakin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/19/2013 11:12:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Please forgive me, I dont know what the fuck I was thinking. It was stupid of me to point out chronological order, whilst talking about a timeline of events. I forgive you and I don't think it was stupid to point out chronological order. I just don't see what it has to do with the point I was trying to make. quote: ORIGINAL: Come to that, what the fuck were we Brits thinking. *Bringing in gun controls so we have had less gun related massacres in 100 years than you have had in the last one or two.* And imagine that, we destroy perfectly good guns in order to save the lives of people....... How crass is that. Really, what were you thinking. Different time, different place and different cultures. At this point in time, your vision of UK gun control for the US won't work. The problem goes much deeper than simple gun availability. And I've said before, the gun availability ship sailed a long time ago. its one thing to compare things and say look ours is less, but that statment is rediculess 1 April 1922 Arnon Street massacre Belfast, Northern Ireland 0006 !6 0001 !1 A mass shooting by the Royal Irish Constabulary; part of the Irish War of Independence. 12 August 1966 Massacre of Braybrook Street London, England 003 !3 Three Metropolitan Police officers shot while investigating a car outside Wormwood Scrubs prison. 9–11 August 1971 Ballymurphy Massacre Belfast, Northern Ireland 0011 !11 unknown A mass shooting by the Parachute Regiment, British Army. 30 January 1972 Bloody Sunday (Bogside Massacre) Londonderry, Northern Ireland 0014 !14 0017 !17 A mass shooting by the Parachute Regiment, British Army. Part of "The Troubles". 31 July 1975 Miami Showband massacre Buskhill, County Down, Northern Ireland 0005 !5 0002 !2 A botched attack by the UVF (including five off-duty British soldiers). Allegations of collusion persist. Part of "The Troubles". 5 January 1976 Kingsmill massacre Kingsmill, County Armagh, Northern Ireland 0010 !10 0001 !1 A mass shooting. A report by the Historical Inquiries Team found that Provisional IRA members were responsible. Part of "The Troubles". 19 August 1987 Hungerford massacre Hungerford, England 0016 !16 0015 !15 A spree shooting/murder–suicide by Michael Robert Ryan. 8 November 1987 Remembrance Day bombing (Poppy Day Massacre) Enniskillen, Northern Ireland 0012 !12 0063 !63 A bombing by the IRA. Part of "The Troubles". 16 March 1988 Milltown Massacre Belfast, Northern Ireland 0003 !3 0060 !60+ A gun and grenade attack by UDA member Michael Stone. Part of "The Troubles". 30 October 1993 Greysteel massacre Greysteel, Northern Ireland 0008 !8 0013 !13 A mass shooting by the UDA. Part of "The Troubles". 18 June 1994 Loughinisland massacre Loughinisland, Northern Ireland 0006 !6 0005 !5 A mass shooting by the UVF. Part of "The Troubles". 13 March 1996 Dunblane school massacre Dunblane, Scotland 0018 !18 0015 !15 A school shooting/murder–suicide by Thomas Hamilton. 2 June 2010 Cumbria shootings Cumbria, England 0012 !12 0011 !11 A killing spree/murder–suicide by Derrick Bird.

tweakabelle -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 12:39:13 AM)
Talk about comparing apples and oranges..... There is simply no comparison between atrocities committed by either side in a war and the seemingly random, utterly pointless mass killings that are so common in the USA today. Or the numerous individual gun murders that occur every day in today's USA. The 'gun availability ship' may have sailed long ago. That is no reason to believe that nothing can or should be done to prevent more of the pointless gun violence and murders that plague the USA.

BitYakin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 12:49:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Talk about comparing apples and oranges..... There is simply no comparison between atrocities committed by either side in a war and the seemingly random, utterly pointless mass killings that are so common in the USA today. Or the numerous individual gun murders that occur every day in today's USA. The 'gun availability ship' may have sailed long ago. That is no reason to believe that nothing can or should be done to prevent more of the pointless gun violence and murders that plague the USA. REALLY??? england was at WAR with ireland? odd those were dates and events that came up in a list titled UK MASSACRES and in MOST of them it was BRITISH SOLDIERS, massacring civilians, yanno kinda the REASON some of us DO NOT WISH TO GIVE UP OUR GUNS!

lovmuffin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 1:09:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle The 'gun availability ship' may have sailed long ago. That is no reason to believe that nothing can or should be done to prevent more of the pointless gun violence and murders that plague the USA. So what is your solution ?

eulero83 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 1:23:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD All that an no mention of jail time. [image]http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/305/1lf8.jpg[/image] I posted the screen shot of the first case and it says sentence: "jail 1 year" charges were 0044-WEAPONS/UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF PISTOL I report the other case # with the sentence E351690 2364-WEAPONS/SALE/DELIV-PISTOL & POSS- PERSON jail 1 year F780522 0182-DRUGS/POS 28G/<MARIJ OR 10G/<HSH-2ND/SUB jail 6 months, fine $1000, suspended with probation 2 years G436738 0512-RSG/RECEIVING STOLEN GOODS, <$1000 jail 2 years, suspended with probation 1 year G436739 0538-VEHICLE/STOLEN-POSS, ETC,>$1000 TO $5000 jail 2 years I898217 0612-Assault / Simple assault and battery 30 days or $300 41320DM 0659-SPMJ fine or jail time 30 days 79602AJ 0175-DUS/DRIVE UNDER SUSP,NOT/DUI-3ND/SUB OFF jail 90 days

Lucylastic -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 3:34:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin REALLY??? england was at WAR with ireland? odd those were dates and events that came up in a list titled UK MASSACRES and in MOST of them it was BRITISH SOLDIERS, massacring civilians, yanno kinda the REASON some of us DO NOT WISH TO GIVE UP OUR GUNS! You have heard of the war on terrorism havent you???? Yeah the UK(mainland), had troubles with assholes blowing up innocent people for many years Amazing how you havent mentioned the harrods bombing that killed six people and injured nearly 100 people. I was there that day(harrrods) and there was a bomb scare at victoria station that day too..... Or the killing of the household cavalry in regents park and hyde park, 11 people died or the chelsea barracks where 2 died or any of the bombings taking place on english soil, and yanno terrorist attacks had been taking place for a long time take a look here.... oh Ill just give you a clue as to how many bomb attacks there were theres a nice lil list at wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_London 15 between 1939 and 1940 During the troubles you dont mention any of the bombings or deaths on english soil at all, by the IRA 13 of them, not all deadly in the seventies. My hubby was sent to NI in the late 60s to the early 70s he still wears the scars to this day. If you think" the troubles" were as simple as british soldiers killing innocents, you are sadly mistaken. now lets get down to the nitty gritty shall we.... there have been how many gun deaths in the US since Newtown shootings???? http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html these represent only the number of gun deaths that the media can find out about contemporaneously. since newtown, with two months to go before its 1 year anniversary 9,577 Note that suicides are not reported in this graphic, or the date file which can be found here http://slate-interactives-prod.elasticbeanstalk.com/gun-deaths/getCSV.php poo poo them all you like, 54 Gang deaths 55 drug deaths 167 children 457 Teens 8,744 Adults All dead, by someone firing a gun at them Heres some "sourced" figures for you to ponder, or not 2011 totals of all gun deaths UKs gun deaths are 146 US gun deaths are 32,163 per 100,00 people UK us 0.23 US is 10.3 Annual Gun Homicide for 2011 UK Is 338 US is 11,101 Per 100,00 People UK Is 0.06 US is 3.6 Long gun Homicide UK 10 US 679 Handgun homicide UK 4 US 6,220 Justifiable gun death UK 3 US 617 Homicides by any method UK 653 US 15,953 cites http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom population (2012) UK 63,705,000 US 316,889,000 Country by area and density 9,826,675, US density 34.2/km 2 US 244,110, UK density 255.6/km2 Prison population per 100,00 England and wales 148 Scotland 146 US 716 (all found at wikipedia) DO us all a favour and cite YOUR sources, not just somethin you read without any methodology please

tweakabelle -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 3:40:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle The 'gun availability ship' may have sailed long ago. That is no reason to believe that nothing can or should be done to prevent more of the pointless gun violence and murders that plague the USA. So what is your solution ? Impossible to outline all aspects of a potential solution here but here's a few ideas about what could be done with little net cost to the community: Immediately: Legalise drugs to remove the source of criminal wealth, power and official corruption. In the short to medium term: A series of measures aimed at taking guns out of the public domain entirely without compromising the rights of legitimate gun owners ; comprehensive strategies to counter gangs and gang culture ; initiatives to change prison culture from one of punishment to rehabilitation, especially for young offenders and gang members; Longer term: Re-evalution of the role of guns in US culture. These measures could be financed by taxes on sales of recreational drugs. Resources currently deployed in drug suppression would be freed up to focus on other crimes and support the initiatives outlined above.

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 3:57:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Please forgive me, I dont know what the fuck I was thinking. It was stupid of me to point out chronological order, whilst talking about a timeline of events. I forgive you and I don't think it was stupid to point out chronological order. I just don't see what it has to do with the point I was trying to make. quote: ORIGINAL: Come to that, what the fuck were we Brits thinking. Bringing in gun controls so we have had less gun related massacres in 100 years than you have had in the last one or two. And imagine that, we destroy perfectly good guns in order to save the lives of people....... How crass is that. Really, what were you thinking. Different time, different place and different cultures. At this point in time, your vision of UK gun control for the US won't work. The problem goes much deeper than simple gun availability. And I've said before, the gun availability ship sailed a long time ago. I have never suggested gun control like ours for the US. That is just more of the same old bullshit thrown at anyone who says anything about guns. I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic.

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 3:58:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Talk about comparing apples and oranges..... There is simply no comparison between atrocities committed by either side in a war and the seemingly random, utterly pointless mass killings that are so common in the USA today. Or the numerous individual gun murders that occur every day in today's USA. The 'gun availability ship' may have sailed long ago. That is no reason to believe that nothing can or should be done to prevent more of the pointless gun violence and murders that plague the USA. REALLY??? england was at WAR with ireland? odd those were dates and events that came up in a list titled UK MASSACRES and in MOST of them it was BRITISH SOLDIERS, massacring civilians, yanno kinda the REASON some of us DO NOT WISH TO GIVE UP OUR GUNS! Lmfao....... just what I need on a Sunday morning, revisionist history.

Apocalypso -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 6:28:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Lmfao....... just what I need on a Sunday morning, revisionist history. A song about people like BitYakin.

BitYakin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 10:42:38 AM)
for starters I wouldn't have listed bombing because he SPECIFICLY stated GUN RELATED MASSACRES secondly I didn't cherry pick that list to begin with I copied it directly from a wiki page titled http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_Kingdom List of massacres in Great Britain and Northern Ireland I guess he should have been MORE SPECIFIC as to NOT INCLUDE massacres by MILITARY as for providing CITATIONS, come ONNNNNN, you claiming I MADE THOSE EVENTS UP? go ahead PRETEND that just because I didn't post a LINK it means they DIDN'T HAPPEN! I find something CURIOUS about your numbers though 2011 totals of all gun deaths UKs gun deaths are 146 US gun deaths are 32,163 Annual Gun Homicide for 2011 UK Is 338 US is 11,101 how can you have 338 gun homicides and only have 146 gun deaths?

BitYakin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 10:47:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Talk about comparing apples and oranges..... There is simply no comparison between atrocities committed by either side in a war and the seemingly random, utterly pointless mass killings that are so common in the USA today. Or the numerous individual gun murders that occur every day in today's USA. The 'gun availability ship' may have sailed long ago. That is no reason to believe that nothing can or should be done to prevent more of the pointless gun violence and murders that plague the USA. REALLY??? england was at WAR with ireland? odd those were dates and events that came up in a list titled UK MASSACRES and in MOST of them it was BRITISH SOLDIERS, massacring civilians, yanno kinda the REASON some of us DO NOT WISH TO GIVE UP OUR GUNS! Lmfao....... just what I need on a Sunday morning, revisionist history. revisonist history? yeah cause I MADE THOSE EVENTS UP! YOU said gun related massacres in the past 100 years, I did a search for UK MASSACRE and thats the list I found, I stopped at 1922 aprox 100 years ago! lucy suggested I include BOMBINGS TOO, I guess if I had it would have strenghtened the opposite position proving even without guns people will find ways to commit mass murder

BitYakin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 10:49:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Apocalypso quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Lmfao....... just what I need on a Sunday morning, revisionist history. A song about people like BitYakin. HMMMMM could have SWORN the admin has warned us to not make posts ABOUT POSTERS! here's a SONG for you, sunday bloody sunday I guess thats REVISIONIST HISTORY TOO, where british troops went in and shot up a bunch of UNARMED PEOPLE!

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 10:59:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin for starters I wouldn't have listed bombing because he SPECIFICLY stated GUN RELATED MASSACRES secondly I didn't cherry pick that list to begin with I copied it directly from a wiki page titled http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_Kingdom List of massacres in Great Britain and Northern Ireland I guess he should have been MORE SPECIFIC as to NOT INCLUDE massacres by MILITARY as for providing CITATIONS, come ONNNNNN, you claiming I MADE THOSE EVENTS UP? go ahead PRETEND that just because I didn't post a LINK it means they DIDN'T HAPPEN! I find something CURIOUS about your numbers though 2011 totals of all gun deaths UKs gun deaths are 146 US gun deaths are 32,163 Annual Gun Homicide for 2011 UK Is 338 US is 11,101 how can you have 338 gun homicides and only have 146 gun deaths? Omg can someone else explain. I could do it myself but might use an adjective [8D]

Apocalypso -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 11:19:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin HMMMMM could have SWORN the admin has warned us to not make posts ABOUT POSTERS! Feel free to put in a complaint. quote: here's a SONG for you, sunday bloody sunday I guess thats REVISIONIST HISTORY TOO, where british troops went in and shot up a bunch of UNARMED PEOPLE! And where exactly did I deny Bloody Sunday happened? (The idea that I'm pro the British state is hilarious to anyone who's read any of my posts). But you didn't claim that the British security forces carried out atrocities. Which they did. What you actually said is this: quote: MOST of them it was BRITISH SOLDIERS, massacring civilians That simply isn't true. The statistics are that approximately 60% of the dead were killed by republicans, 30% by loyalists and 10% by the security forces. Or, if you want to break it down just by civilians killed, the British security forces killed 187 (~51.5%), republicans killed 728 (~35%) and loyalists killed 868 (~85.4%). The source for that is Sutton's Index of Deaths from the Conflict in Ireland. But you can also find the statistics on Wiki, as I suspect you're not prepared to read any statistics before spouting off your ignorant drivel. You either don't know what you're talking about or you're a liar. Which is it? You also obviously misunderstood what the song is about. Listen to it again. It's what an actual person from Northern Ireland thinks of people like you. But of course, you're more then willing to fight to the last Irishman. One last question. Have you ever even fucking been to Ireland?

lovmuffin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 11:27:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucyelastic which can be found here http://slate-interactives-prod.elasticbeanstalk.com/gun-deaths/getCSV.php poo poo them all you like, 54 Gang deaths 55 drug deaths 167 children 457 Teens 8,744 Adults I keep trying to go to the link but it overwhelms my phone. The numbers I'm coming up with for gun homicides in my searches have street gangs committing anywhere from 50% to 80% (Non suicide %'s). I don't understand the low numbers for drug deaths and gang deaths that you posted.

lovmuffin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 12:41:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 I have never suggested gun control like ours for the US. That is just more of the same old bullshit thrown at anyone who says anything about guns. Without even going through all gun threads I know you have extolled the low gun homicide rate in the UK attributing it to your gun laws while at the same time poking a stick at our homicide rates and gun laws. I wonder how I could have got that impression. quote: ORIGINAL: I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic Ok, so we agree on that. Based on the information we have and his apparent criminal history, the shooter shouldn't have been in possession of a gun, knife or even a slingshot. I don't have a clue why the judge ruled the way he did. I followed the entire thread and I don't know exactly why it drifted. It seemed to me, though on topic, and except what ever factual information Lucy posted, it turned into a whole lot of useless back and forth jibber jabber. I jumped in where it drifted to tyrants, Hitler, the holocoust and disarming Jews and arming Brits during the war. It was at least, a more interesting conversation. Isn't it funny how things go from here to there ?

BitYakin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 1:43:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin for starters I wouldn't have listed bombing because he SPECIFICLY stated GUN RELATED MASSACRES secondly I didn't cherry pick that list to begin with I copied it directly from a wiki page titled http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_Kingdom List of massacres in Great Britain and Northern Ireland I guess he should have been MORE SPECIFIC as to NOT INCLUDE massacres by MILITARY as for providing CITATIONS, come ONNNNNN, you claiming I MADE THOSE EVENTS UP? go ahead PRETEND that just because I didn't post a LINK it means they DIDN'T HAPPEN! I find something CURIOUS about your numbers though 2011 totals of all gun deaths UKs gun deaths are 146 US gun deaths are 32,163 Annual Gun Homicide for 2011 UK Is 338 US is 11,101 how can you have 338 gun homicides and only have 146 gun deaths? Omg can someone else explain. I could do it myself but might use an adjective [8D] feel free to explan using whatever adjectives you feel are needed! you can't have a homicide without a DEATH, how can you have more GUN homicides than TOTAL GUN deaths yer right I am MISSING SOMETHING HERE!

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 1:53:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin feel free to explan using whatever adjectives you feel are needed! you can't have a homicide without a DEATH, how can you have more GUN homicides than TOTAL GUN deaths yer right I am MISSING SOMETHING HERE! 1) I caught Gammas post about adjectives, so I wont be using any for now. 2) Yes, you are indeed missing something, suicide by gun is included in Gun Deaths but not in Homicides....It aint rocket science. 3) On your other point about terrorist related deaths, I havent pointed them out in any debate other than terrorism ones. Seems fair enough to me, but lets say I had, and all the soldiers had massacred civillians. If that were the case then you overlook most soldiers are usually armed and trained to kill. I would think you could have understood they are not affected by gun laws while in the Army, cause if that were so, you could add all the other deaths from every war since WW1. So no, my post didnt include every death you mentioned, because they are not part of the debate.

Page: << < prev 21 22 [23] 24 25 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875