RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case

RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (Full Version)

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BitYakin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 1:57:13 PM)
You also obviously misunderstood what the song is about. Listen to it again. It's what an actual person from Northern Ireland thinks of people like you. But of course, you're more then willing to fight to the last Irishman. One last question. Have you ever even fucking been to Ireland? I didn't misunerstand anything, its that persons opinion, and he/she is welcome to it, do I care what they think, or what YOU think umm let me think a second, NOOOOOO as for me being willng to fight to the last irishman, how dumb is that statment? for the record, when the "war of terrorism" started I persoanly said they should ALSO include the terrosists in north ireland see but you wouldn't know that, you just JUDGE ME because I pointed out how REDICULESS it is to say there have been more gun related massacres in the us the last year or two than in britan in the last 100 years you don't want guns in your country FINE don't have guns, but I am about tired of you looking down your nose as us because we DO! pretending because we don't wanna end up like the people of bloody sunday means we are cold calous blood thirsty lunatics

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 1:58:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 I have never suggested gun control like ours for the US. That is just more of the same old bullshit thrown at anyone who says anything about guns. Without even going through all gun threads I know you have extolled the low gun homicide rate in the UK attributing it to your gun laws while at the same time poking a stick at our homicide rates and gun laws. I wonder how I could have got that impression. quote: ORIGINAL: I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic Ok, so we agree on that. Based on the information we have and his apparent criminal history, the shooter shouldn't have been in possession of a gun, knife or even a slingshot. I don't have a clue why the judge ruled the way he did. I followed the entire thread and I don't know exactly why it drifted. It seemed to me, though on topic, and except what ever factual information Lucy posted, it turned into a whole lot of useless back and forth jibber jabber. I jumped in where it drifted to tyrants, Hitler, the holocoust and disarming Jews and arming Brits during the war. It was at least, a more interesting conversation. Isn't it funny how things go from here to there ? 1) Then you need to look at my posts again, I have never said all your gun laws are wrong, just those regarding some of the types of weapons that seem easily available. 2) Lucys facts were indeed facts those claiming they were not and bringing in the question of arming the Jews and supplying us with arms after the fall of France, were just muddying the waters. Something which happens everytime there is a debate on firearms.

Apocalypso -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 2:02:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin you don't want guns in your country FINE don't have guns, but I am about tired of you looking down your nose as us because we DO! You don't actually know my view on gun control. I'm not in favour. I was specifically responding to your (entirely false) claim that more people in Northern Ireland were killed by the British army then any other force. quote: pretending because we don't wanna end up like the people of bloody sunday means we are cold calous blood thirsty lunatics Don't kid yourself. Your guns would not be enough to protect you against the large amounts of firepower the US police carry, let alone the army.

BitYakin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 2:07:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin feel free to explan using whatever adjectives you feel are needed! you can't have a homicide without a DEATH, how can you have more GUN homicides than TOTAL GUN deaths yer right I am MISSING SOMETHING HERE! 1) I caught Gammas post about adjectives, so I wont be using any for now. 2) Yes, you are indeed missing something, suicide by gun is included in Gun Deaths but not in Homicides....It aint rocket science. 3) On your other point about terrorist related deaths, I havent pointed them out in any debate other than terrorism ones. Seems fair enough to me, but lets say I had, and all the soldiers had massacred civillians. If that were the case then you overlook most soldiers are usually armed and trained to kill. I would think you could have understood they are not affected by gun laws while in the Army, cause if that were so, you could add all the other deaths from every war since WW1. So no, my post didnt include every death you mentioned, because they are not part of the debate. yessss think REALLL HARD about what you said in point two, suicides not being counted as homocide, would mean you'd have a LARGER number of TOTAL gun deaths than gun homicides, not the other way around! and look you made a broad general statement, now you wanna say welll THOSE kinds of massacres DO NOT COUNT, people here have been REALL ASSES to me about being SPECIFIC, I guess you get a PASS on that though! BTW when you take into accont the context of the US CONSTITUTION, they are VERY VERY MUCH part of the debate, because that VERY THING is the reason we have the right to bear arms! so we could, if need be, defend ourselves from SOLDIERS!

BitYakin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 2:14:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Apocalypso quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin you don't want guns in your country FINE don't have guns, but I am about tired of you looking down your nose as us because we DO! You don't actually know my view on gun control. I'm not in favour. I was specifically responding to your (entirely false) claim that more people in Northern Ireland were killed by the British army then any other force. quote: pretending because we don't wanna end up like the people of bloody sunday means we are cold calous blood thirsty lunatics Don't kid yourself. Your guns would not be enough to protect you against the large amounts of firepower the US police carry, let alone the army. sorry I made NO SUCH CLAIM. I was speaking of the events in that LIST, and I'll admit I went back and counted and I may have over reacted a bit on that, seems soldiers only accounted for 25% of the events in that list, still they are the largest single instigator, but not MOST as I had said, as for your last comment, wether we could fight the us military or not I kinda like at least having the CHANCE to fight back! also if not for anti gun people, if the consitution were enforced as WRITTEN, then we would have a fighting chance... but I'll admit as it stands today, you are right, we'd all just go down fighting. but I'd rather go down fighting than just stand by and watch helplessly!

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 2:37:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin yessss think REALLL HARD about what you said in point two, suicides not being counted as homocide, would mean you'd have a LARGER number of TOTAL gun deaths than gun homicides, not the other way around! and look you made a broad general statement, now you wanna say welll THOSE kinds of massacres DO NOT COUNT, people here have been REALL ASSES to me about being SPECIFIC, I guess you get a PASS on that though! BTW when you take into accont the context of the US CONSTITUTION, they are VERY VERY MUCH part of the debate, because that VERY THING is the reason we have the right to bear arms! so we could, if need be, defend ourselves from SOLDIERS! Annual Gun Homicide for 2011 UK Is 338 US is 11,101 1) Yes, my bad. I think Lucy made a typo and the figure should read 38 and not 338. I read the link as 38. 2) No, i didnt make a broad statement, I made a specific statement about gun deaths, by civilians, in peacetime. 3) I am sure your government would soon put down an armed rebellion, whatever you feel the Constitution meant.

lovmuffin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 2:40:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 I have never suggested gun control like ours for the US. That is just more of the same old bullshit thrown at anyone who says anything about guns. Without even going through all gun threads I know you have extolled the low gun homicide rate in the UK attributing it to your gun laws while at the same time poking a stick at our homicide rates and gun laws. I wonder how I could have got that impression. quote: ORIGINAL: I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic Ok, so we agree on that. Based on the information we have and his apparent criminal history, the shooter shouldn't have been in possession of a gun, knife or even a slingshot. I don't have a clue why the judge ruled the way he did. I followed the entire thread and I don't know exactly why it drifted. It seemed to me, though on topic, and except what ever factual information Lucy posted, it turned into a whole lot of useless back and forth jibber jabber. I jumped in where it drifted to tyrants, Hitler, the holocoust and disarming Jews and arming Brits during the war. It was at least, a more interesting conversation. Isn't it funny how things go from here to there ? 1) Then you need to look at my posts again, I have never said all your gun laws are wrong, just those regarding some of the types of weapons that seem easily available. 2) Lucys facts were indeed facts those claiming they were not and bringing in the question of arming the Jews and supplying us with arms after the fall of France, were just muddying the waters. Something which happens everytime there is a debate on firearms. 1) Oh ok, so you are just referring to the availability of certain types of weapons. I'm going to guess semi automatics. So what are you saying ? Get rid of or curtail their availability. 2) I hope you're not implying that I claimed Lucy's facts were not facts because that's not what I said. The thread drifted because in relation to the OP someone starts to demonized SYG and it begins to go all over the place. I jumped in at tyrants, Jews and Hitler. I'm the guilty party for the "Arming the Brits" during the war and pre war British gun control part of the thread drift but I stand by the facts I posted and I still say it was a more interesting conversation than the nonsense (not Lucy's posts) going back and forth before the thread drifted. Why don't we just leave it where we can both agree ? The shooter is a stupid dick and the judge fucked up.

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 2:46:08 PM)
Yes, exactly that with semi automatics. I have often said I see the need for firearms in rural areas. It would be nice to think you dont need guns in Cities, but we seem to manage without just fine over here. No, I wasnt implying you made the claim about Lucys facts, but others did.

BamaD -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 3:20:01 PM)
I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic. I kind of suspect that the police asked him one or two questions, don't you. Just because you and I do not get to question him doesn't mean it didn't happen.

lovmuffin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 3:51:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Impossible to outline all aspects of a potential solution here but here's a few ideas about what could be done with little net cost to the community: Immediately: Legalise drugs to remove the source of criminal wealth, power and official corruption. In the short to medium term: ............. comprehensive strategies to counter gangs and gang culture ; initiatives to change prison culture from one of punishment to rehabilitation, especially for young offenders and gang members; Hell yes, decriminalize drugs, most of the common ones at least. Yes, strategies to combat street gangs. I've posted that one myself on another thread. Some if not most police agencies have inadequate resources and personnel for their gang task forces. Definitely we need to take a look at prison culture. Not only do we need better rehabilitation but we need to take control back from the prisoners. In far too many state and federal prisons there is way too much gang activity and drug use. Not only that but many lose all hope because the only think happening to them is getting raped. quote:* ORIGINAL: In the short to medium term: *A series of measures aimed at taking guns out of the public domain entirely without compromising the rights of legitimate gun owners ; Longer term: Re-evalution of the role of guns in US culture I'm not sure exactly what you mean "taking guns out of the public domain entirely". If it means no more concealed carry then I don't think I would go along with that. Kirata has suggested on other threads, the need to raise the bar on proficiency requirements to obtain a permit. I could go along with that. Either way, the bad guys and whack jobs are going to pack heat where and whenever they want. "Re-evalution of the role of guns in US culture" ??? I don't know where you're going with that one. Maybe we could go from saying "from my cold dead hands" to "take 'em, bullets first". [8D]

eulero83 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 3:52:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic. I kind of suspect that the police asked him one or two questions, don't you. Just because you and I do not get to question him doesn't mean it didn't happen. Of course they questioned him, they said this in one of the links, and he denied to have been part of the shooting, than confessed the day after.

eulero83 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 3:59:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Yes, strategies to combat street gangs. I've posted that one myself on another thread. Some if not most police agencies have inadequate resources and personnel for their gang task forces. ok I'm going off topic but I'm curious about this, do you have some kind of "gang association" felony? I mean a perosn who is recriuted in a gang can be jailed just for this fact or has to commit a crime first?

lovmuffin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 4:04:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Yes, exactly that with semi automatics. I have often said I see the need for firearms in rural areas. It would be nice to think you dont need guns in Cities, but we seem to manage without just fine over here. Ok, so you you guys manage fine which is fine. What are you suggesting then, in the US we shouldn't have any guns in the cities or we shouldn't have semi autos in the cities ? Is it ok to have semi autos in the more rural areas ?

lovmuffin -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 4:19:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Yes, strategies to combat street gangs. I've posted that one myself on another thread. Some if not most police agencies have inadequate resources and personnel for their gang task forces. ok I'm going off topic but I'm curious about this, do you have some kind of "gang association" felony? I mean a perosn who is recriuted in a gang can be jailed just for this fact or has to commit a crime first? No gang association felony and yes, he has to commit a crime. Gang associations are compiled by law enforcement. With adequate resources they could probably do a whole lot more with them.

eulero83 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 4:40:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Yes, strategies to combat street gangs. I've posted that one myself on another thread. Some if not most police agencies have inadequate resources and personnel for their gang task forces. ok I'm going off topic but I'm curious about this, do you have some kind of "gang association" felony? I mean a perosn who is recriuted in a gang can be jailed just for this fact or has to commit a crime first? No gang association felony and yes, he has to commit a crime. Gang associations are compiled by law enforcement. With adequate resources they could probably do a whole lot more with them. I was asking because in italy just being part of an association alike mafia (a criminal association that use intimidation or violence to control a territory) is worth from 3 to 5 years prison.

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 4:43:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic. I kind of suspect that the police asked him one or two questions, don't you. Just because you and I do not get to question him doesn't mean it didn't happen. Lmfao........ yes I meant the police didnt question him...... No way did I mean more questions to answer in the general sense of the phrase. We didnt see the guy get killed either, care to suggest that didnt happen as well ? [8\|]

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 4:45:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Yes, exactly that with semi automatics. I have often said I see the need for firearms in rural areas. It would be nice to think you dont need guns in Cities, but we seem to manage without just fine over here. Ok, so you you guys manage fine which is fine. What are you suggesting then, in the US we shouldn't have any guns in the cities or we shouldn't have semi autos in the cities ? Is it ok to have semi autos in the more rural areas ? I dont see the need for these types of guns period, I have made that clear on several occassions. And yes, I would like to think you didnt need guns in cities either.

Politesub53 -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 4:47:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic. I kind of suspect that the police asked him one or two questions, don't you. Just because you and I do not get to question him doesn't mean it didn't happen. Of course they questioned him, they said this in one of the links, and he denied to have been part of the shooting, than confessed the day after. Hes just being his usual self. I already said to him that the authorities had questioned the shooter, and I also gave a link for the quote.

BamaD -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 4:49:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I have said that in this case, the shooter should have questions to answer, all of which is on topic. I kind of suspect that the police asked him one or two questions, don't you. Just because you and I do not get to question him doesn't mean it didn't happen. Lmfao........ yes I meant the police didnt question him...... No way did I mean more questions to answer in the general sense of the phrase. We didnt see the guy get killed either, care to suggest that didnt happen as well ? [8\|] If you had actually read my post I was bringing it to your attention that even though we were not present I am sure the police asked a lot of questions.

BamaD -> RE: Innocent bystander killed in SYG case (10/20/2013 4:51:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Yes, strategies to combat street gangs. I've posted that one myself on another thread. Some if not most police agencies have inadequate resources and personnel for their gang task forces. ok I'm going off topic but I'm curious about this, do you have some kind of "gang association" felony? I mean a perosn who is recriuted in a gang can be jailed just for this fact or has to commit a crime first? No gang association felony and yes, he has to commit a crime. Gang associations are compiled by law enforcement. With adequate resources they could probably do a whole lot more with them. I was asking because in italy just being part of an association alike mafia (a criminal association that use intimidation or violence to control a territory) is worth from 3 to 5 years prison. Here quilt by association is not permitted.

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