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Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/14/2013 10:16:15 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Following article from Forbes says that the Ocare website was supposed to have the ability to shop for coverage before signing up; and that it was nixed as a result of sticker shock.

Therefore the website required users to create an account, to verify income, to enter medical information etc before showing what policy costs were, so the administration could present the figure after subsidies thereby minimizing sticker shock.

Pretty well sourced.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/14/obamacares-website-is-crashing-because-it-doesnt-want-you-to-know-health-plans-true-costs/?partner=yahootix
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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/14/2013 11:17:20 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Sure. The fact that the GOP idiots denied funding for the setup of the site had nothing to do with it.

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/14/2013 11:42:37 PM   
Kirata


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Look, Phydeaux, I'm no fan of the Obamacare website. And regardless of whether or not Ken is right, the problem has nothing to do with funding either. It's entirely an idiot-in-charge problem. When users try to sign up, they trigger an avalanche of data requests that generate a massive surge of traffic which should have been off-loaded to a second tier of servers. The site is virtually designed to effect a denial of service attack against itself.

But that said, I don't see how it makes any sense to criticize the design for requesting the information necessary to deliver accurate rates.

K.






< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/14/2013 11:48:00 PM >

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 6:29:03 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOLOLOL. Did anyone read that fucking article? That makes Breitbart look only misinformed.

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 9:18:39 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Just curious Mnotter.

How specifically was the author uninformed. Or just more of the usual unsourced aspersions?

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 9:34:00 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Following article from Forbes says that the Ocare website was supposed to have the ability to shop for coverage before signing up; and that it was nixed as a result of sticker shock.

Therefore the website required users to create an account, to verify income, to enter medical information etc before showing what policy costs were, so the administration could present the figure after subsidies thereby minimizing sticker shock.

Pretty well sourced.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/14/obamacares-website-is-crashing-because-it-doesnt-want-you-to-know-health-plans-true-costs/?partner=yahootix


If one really wanted to know why the servers crashed it was reported on npr last week. I am sure it is available for anyone who is interested on one of their pod cast. It is however a bit more mundane and not near as sinsister as the picture presented by the morons in the link.

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 9:43:25 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yes you have sourced aspersions. Please read:


A Manhattan Institute analysis I helped conduct found that, on average, the cheapest plan offered in a given state, under Obamacare, will be 99 percent more expensive for men, and 62 percent more expensive for women, than the cheapest plan offered under the old system. And those disparities are even wider for healthy people.

^^^^^^^^^^^^This is the author, a teabagger that of course is full of shit, with no credible data or citations, just a teabagger hallucination that he is pushing.

Healthcare.gov was initially going to include an option to browse before registering,” report Christopher Weaver and Louise Radnofsky in the Wall Street Journal. “But that tool was delayed, people familiar with the situation said.” Why was it delayed? “An HHS spokeswoman said the agency wanted to ensure that users were aware of their eligibility for subsidies that could help pay for coverage, before they started seeing the prices of policies.”

Sticker shock? If they ----no, that is fucking retardedly stupid, it is the aspersions you cast .... slobberingly imbecilic. So, if they dont register they are not going to get this non-extant sticker shock?


It is a teabagger masturbatory fantasy by a whiney fucking retard trying to prove a point that was unprovable, much like the other whiney shit that teabaggers do, repealing it 42 times.....there is no credible citeable truth in that article.

So some teabagger whiney bitch who runs a conservative propaganda tank right out of Joseph Geobbles playbook, who served as an economic advisor to Mitt Romney. . . yeah, I think I will end there, that should give you some pause. . .


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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 10:33:30 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Look, Phydeaux, I'm no fan of the Obamacare website. And regardless of whether or not Ken is right, the problem has nothing to do with funding either. It's entirely an idiot-in-charge problem. When users try to sign up, they trigger an avalanche of data requests that generate a massive surge of traffic which should have been off-loaded to a second tier of servers. The site is virtually designed to effect a denial of service attack against itself.

But that said, I don't see how it makes any sense to criticize the design for requesting the information necessary to deliver accurate rates.

K.







92

Supposedly it takes 92 requests to other data stores.. Thats shere idiocy. Those remotes should have been consolidated and prestaged.. just like anyone with a brain does.

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 10:37:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		How many requests to datastores (there are no data stores) do you think it takes to make one page of collarchat?

It looks like Oracle, the private sector piece is not playing well with others. Jeez, I thought they were efficient and do a way better job than government.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/15/2013 10:44:45 AM >

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 10:52:53 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Look, Phydeaux, I'm no fan of the Obamacare website. And regardless of whether or not Ken is right, the problem has nothing to do with funding either. It's entirely an idiot-in-charge problem. When users try to sign up, they trigger an avalanche of data requests that generate a massive surge of traffic which should have been off-loaded to a second tier of servers. The site is virtually designed to effect a denial of service attack against itself.

But that said, I don't see how it makes any sense to criticize the design for requesting the information necessary to deliver accurate rates.

K.







92

Supposedly it takes 92 requests to other data stores.. Thats shere idiocy. Those remotes should have been consolidated and prestaged.. just like anyone with a brain does.

They counted every image, external javascript and CSS file. I'm fairly confident under that standard yahoo's count would be into the hundreds. They may have written a bad page design or they may have not optimized the back end code but the number of requests generated by a page is not a big deal.

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 12:55:53 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		The number of back end requests to a single data source is, in itself, no big deal.
But thats not whats going on. There are multiple reports that data formatting between the front end and the various backends are incompatible, requiring multiple transformations. Multiple formats, multiple backends, multiple vendors.

By the way.. you had said earlier that you were confident that the kinds would be worked out in a couple of days. Clearly that hasn't happened.


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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 1:02:51 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Thats the thing, ETL is the big business, take multiple protocols and have multiple protocol handlers, and they are in somewhat of a limited domain. I can't imagine how the data contracts can be that complex. I am betting the project managers are Six Sigma black belts or some stupid shit like that. Edit Transform and Load with off the shelf open source, it is all the rage. Has been since I was first in there.

APIs arent that tough to standardize, nor are they that tough to extend and customize.

There are only so many ways to ask for a credit check.



< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/15/2013 1:03:48 PM >

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 1:03:31 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Look, Phydeaux, I'm no fan of the Obamacare website. And regardless of whether or not Ken is right, the problem has nothing to do with funding either. It's entirely an idiot-in-charge problem. When users try to sign up, they trigger an avalanche of data requests that generate a massive surge of traffic which should have been off-loaded to a second tier of servers. The site is virtually designed to effect a denial of service attack against itself.

But that said, I don't see how it makes any sense to criticize the design for requesting the information necessary to deliver accurate rates.

K.



Well, I think you and I are saying the same thing. I agree - the site is designed to effectively make a denial of service against itself.

As well as cause hundreds of data holes requiring multiple authentications which I guarantee will cause security holes.
Multiple queries parsed against multiple servers, each with its own update schedule. Each with a separate report too.

LOL.. right now they have something like what 1/3 of an application processed for each contract/govt employee?
After a couple weeks?



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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 1:05:46 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Thats the thing, ETL is the big business, take multiple protocols and have multiple protocol handlers, and they are in somewhat of a limited domain. I can't imagine how the data contracts can be that complex. I am betting the project managers are Six Sigma black belts or some stupid shit like that. Edit Transform and Load with off the shelf open source, it is all the rage. Has been since I was first in there.




Whereas I bet they are not using state of the art cloud design, rackspace or no rackspace. I bet they are just doing tons of RPC queries, against SQL (and I bet there are a few propietary db formats in there as well).


< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 10/15/2013 1:24:17 PM >

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 1:10:56 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		said it is open source, and probably a great deal of java, which doesn't scale for shit, far as I am concerned. There may be proprietary formats (no doubt there are mainframes when you dip into the Fed for stuff, and some of the states) and they would not use state of the art cloud given security of information concerns. And returning immutable objects thru an api into query is state of the art. I imagine they are shitty little windows servers all over gumming shit up per usual as well.




< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/15/2013 1:11:35 PM >

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 1:12:45 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		MN, maybe it's being run through the new NSA digs which crashed and burned.

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 1:13:39 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOL. Yeah, I think that place burning does more than this place as current whoo ha.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 1:25:29 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOL. Yeah, I think that place burning does more than this place as current whoo ha.

Damn.. we actually agree... about this and about java/windoze.

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 1:53:52 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		More on the ongoing problems of obama care - structural problems that look to extend this problem out possibly two months or longer.

http://thefederalist.com/2013/10/15/whats-worst-case-scenario-obamacare/

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RE: Design choice for ACA website the cause of crashes - 10/15/2013 1:59:11 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		While his opinionated asswipe is droolingly imbecilic, there is a disingenuous question I have pretty much responded to some time ago.

IFF. The ceiling is fixed and the government funded, you may see a bill come out of the Senate (with wide support) to delay the mandatory/fine scenario a year. Given that these exchanges are not working correctly.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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