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Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health insu... - 10/22/2013 4:36:07 PM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
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A group of businesses and individuals are trying to get rid of subsidies in states that refused to set up their own exchanges. One man fighting against the subsidies doesn't want to choose between purchasing health insurance for $18/month or paying the penalty, which figures out to $12/month. His reasoning: If he wasn't eligible for subsidies, he would be eligible for an exemption. The reality: He's in dire need of health insurance so he can have his head examined.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-declines-halt-obamacare-insurance-subsidies-183920540--sector.html

_____________________________

Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.

Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

Post #: 1

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/22/2013 4:59:25 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

$18 a month certainly seems reasonable DBG.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 2

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/22/2013 5:24:17 PM

MistressDarkArt

Posts: 5178
Status: offline

Oh ffs! I'd like to change shoes with that guy. I pay $415 a month for insurance with a $5,000 deductible. I'm not eligible for any subsidies under the new law. That guy can just quit his bitching.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 3

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/22/2013 5:51:16 PM

DaNewAgeViking

Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline

Do I detect a whiff of 'Tea Party' in all this legal whoop-ti-do?

(in reply to MistressDarkArt)

Post #: 4

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/22/2013 9:54:28 PM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
A group of businesses and individuals are trying to get rid of subsidies in states that refused to set up their own exchanges. One man fighting against the subsidies doesn't want to choose between purchasing health insurance for $18/month or paying the penalty, which figures out to $12/month. His reasoning: If he wasn't eligible for subsidies, he would be eligible for an exemption. The reality: He's in dire need of health insurance so he can have his head examined.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-declines-halt-obamacare-insurance-subsidies-183920540--sector.html

Does no one see a man trying to make a point? That he'd rather fight for what he believes is right rather than take the easy way out and purchase insurance he's being coerced into buying (under threat of fines)? Doesn't anyone else see that?

It's not always going to be about the cost. The cost being so low for this guy should make one realize how much this guy doesn't want the Federal Government to be making the decisions about his health care. It's one thing when the costs are higher than what you've been paying to oppose it. But, with the costs being so low, it's a matter of principle.

Does no one stand up for principles anymore?

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 5

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/22/2013 10:20:44 PM

Esinn

Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
A group of businesses and individuals are trying to get rid of subsidies in states that refused to set up their own exchanges. One man fighting against the subsidies doesn't want to choose between purchasing health insurance for $18/month or paying the penalty, which figures out to $12/month. His reasoning: If he wasn't eligible for subsidies, he would be eligible for an exemption. The reality: He's in dire need of health insurance so he can have his head examined.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-declines-halt-obamacare-insurance-subsidies-183920540--sector.html

Does no one see a man trying to make a point? That he'd rather fight for what he believes is right rather than take the easy way out and purchase insurance he's being coerced into buying (under threat of fines)? Doesn't anyone else see that?

It's not always going to be about the cost. The cost being so low for this guy should make one realize how much this guy doesn't want the Federal Government to be making the decisions about his health care. It's one thing when the costs are higher than what you've been paying to oppose it. But, with the costs being so low, it's a matter of principle.

Does no one stand up for principles anymore?

I see it. But, did you make me a trophy?

_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 6

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/22/2013 11:10:34 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
A group of businesses and individuals are trying to get rid of subsidies in states that refused to set up their own exchanges. One man fighting against the subsidies doesn't want to choose between purchasing health insurance for $18/month or paying the penalty, which figures out to $12/month. His reasoning: If he wasn't eligible for subsidies, he would be eligible for an exemption. The reality: He's in dire need of health insurance so he can have his head examined.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-declines-halt-obamacare-insurance-subsidies-183920540--sector.html

Does no one see a man trying to make a point? That he'd rather fight for what he believes is right rather than take the easy way out and purchase insurance he's being coerced into buying (under threat of fines)? Doesn't anyone else see that?

It's not always going to be about the cost. The cost being so low for this guy should make one realize how much this guy doesn't want the Federal Government to be making the decisions about his health care. It's one thing when the costs are higher than what you've been paying to oppose it. But, with the costs being so low, it's a matter of principle.

Does no one stand up for principles anymore?

What I see is a blithering idiot who has been so propagandized that he is participating in a lawsuit meant to deny other people affordable health care.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 7

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/22/2013 11:36:28 PM

tammystarm

Posts: 3045
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Do I detect a whiff of 'Tea Party' in all this legal whoop-ti-do?

Do I detect a whiff of paranoia in the Left? You would think so given the train wreck called Obamacare, the keystone of a socialist takeover of this nation, but this Obamacare is a train wreck without Tea Party help and so far it's going as predicted, the young and the healthy Obama voters voted for "free" and are not going for anything they have to pay for. Then there are those Americans who remember they are free and cannot be forced to buy anything by anybody and they are right, of course.

Then there are the sick low paid workers who will sign up but will immediately be a loss for the system and finally the sick low paid undocumented (illegal) aliens who cannot sign up and will continue to soak up ER time and expense for hospitals who no longer can afford it under Obamacare.

That’s not all folks, then there are the states who have essentially rebelled already by not letting Medicaid expand in their states by taking more Federal dollars to do so knowing full well they surrender control if they take more Federal funds. Besides, nobody ever really benefits in the long run by taking Federal money. Not really. Not even the poor and certainly not sovereign states of the Union.

Finally, we also hear now of areas in preparation to secede perhaps even the entire state of Texas leading. This is likely just talk. So don’t even worry about that. Why would a state not want to be controlled by a socialist administration?

Yes. This is getting interesting very, very, very fast.

"Don't tread on me" adorned the flag of patriots during the War of Independence and these followed the Boston Tea Party to freedom from a Government who they said oppressed them by taxing them unjustly, the Obamacare premium forced on free men is just such a tax, worse, it enslaves free men by forcing their obedience to a Government mandate, a command, that must be obeyed simply because you are a Citizen which means you now serve the Government.

_____________________________

~~Queen of duct-tape~~
~~Emotionally delusional~~

~~somebody pour me my nebuitol and hand me my drink~~

(in reply to DaNewAgeViking)

Post #: 8

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/22/2013 11:57:15 PM

tammystarm

Posts: 3045
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Does no one see a man trying to make a point? That he'd rather fight for what he believes is right rather than take the easy way out and purchase insurance he's being coerced into buying (under threat of fines)? Doesn't anyone else see that?

Of course we do. The taxes on tea were small also but our founding fathers used it to draw the line on principle and we created this great nation based on principle, the principle that we cannot be forced as free women and men to do anything we do not wish to do.
The principle of our nation is not health care for all but freedom for all.

_____________________________

~~Queen of duct-tape~~
~~Emotionally delusional~~

~~somebody pour me my nebuitol and hand me my drink~~

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 9

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/23/2013 12:41:55 AM

hlen5

Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
A group of businesses and individuals are trying to get rid of subsidies in states that refused to set up their own exchanges. One man fighting against the subsidies doesn't want to choose between purchasing health insurance for $18/month or paying the penalty, which figures out to $12/month. His reasoning: If he wasn't eligible for subsidies, he would be eligible for an exemption. The reality: He's in dire need of health insurance so he can have his head examined.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-declines-halt-obamacare-insurance-subsidies-183920540--sector.html

Does no one see a man trying to make a point? That he'd rather fight for what he believes is right rather than take the easy way out and purchase insurance he's being coerced into buying (under threat of fines)? Doesn't anyone else see that?

It's not always going to be about the cost. The cost being so low for this guy should make one realize how much this guy doesn't want the Federal Government to be making the decisions about his health care. It's one thing when the costs are higher than what you've been paying to oppose it. But, with the costs being so low, it's a matter of principle.

Does no one stand up for principles anymore?

I think what started out as affordable health care has been hijacked by the insurance companies.

That said, why is buying health insurance different than buying car insurance? You must have car insurance to be a legal driver in the state of IL.

_____________________________

My fave Thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2626198/mpage_1/tm.htm

One time "Phallus Expert Extraordinaire"

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 10

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/23/2013 3:50:10 AM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

From the OP's source: "David Klemencic, who does flooring work in West Virginia, is one of the plaintiffs". This guy is bitching about paying $18/month for health coverage? Couldn't we just tattoo on his forehead in big bold letters: TOTAL MORON? The guy probably pays more in gas taxes in a week to travel from home to work and back! Yeah, I really have a hard time accepting this guy's view as anything more than it is: total B.S.!

(in reply to hlen5)

Post #: 11

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/23/2013 4:18:18 AM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Does no one see a man trying to make a point? That he'd rather fight for what he believes is right rather than take the easy way out and purchase insurance he's being coerced into buying (under threat of fines)? Doesn't anyone else see that?

First off, he's not right. His party didn't win the election, nor successful remove the Affordable Care Act from the budget battle just a week ago. The US Supreme Court made its ruling with the ACA and nothing within is unconstitutional. In fact, he's not right in the head. Most people will have bills of $130-400/month, and he's bitching about $18/month? Does that sound like someone that is right in the head? Or in serious need of a mental health specialists that is paid with the ACA plan?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
It's not always going to be about the cost. The cost being so low for this guy should make one realize how much this guy doesn't want the Federal Government to be making the decisions about his health care. It's one thing when the costs are higher than what you've been paying to oppose it. But, with the costs being so low, it's a matter of principle.

This is not principle, its being petty and classless; you know, typical 'Tea Party' attitude. This guy holds a day job. If he cant pay $18/month for health coverage, I have to seriously wonder how his personal business operates. Maybe we should call the IRS to do an actual audit of his books. Hell, how much money did he spend to push this through the courts, DS? That's several months if not a year or two right there (assuming $18/month). You want to argue that this dingle-berry is sensible with money management skills? Quite a large amount of his money just got blown after the judge ruled against him. This is not principle, DS, this is total stupidity on display.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Does no one stand up for principles anymore?

You want to see an example of principle as it relates to the issue, DS:

I feel health care is neither a right nor a privilege. Its a needed concept in my nation! A needed concept that supersedes the right and the privileged.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 12

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/23/2013 7:06:31 AM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
A group of businesses and individuals are trying to get rid of subsidies in states that refused to set up their own exchanges. One man fighting against the subsidies doesn't want to choose between purchasing health insurance for $18/month or paying the penalty, which figures out to $12/month. His reasoning: If he wasn't eligible for subsidies, he would be eligible for an exemption. The reality: He's in dire need of health insurance so he can have his head examined.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-declines-halt-obamacare-insurance-subsidies-183920540--sector.html

Does no one see a man trying to make a point? That he'd rather fight for what he believes is right rather than take the easy way out and purchase insurance he's being coerced into buying (under threat of fines)? Doesn't anyone else see that?
It's not always going to be about the cost. The cost being so low for this guy should make one realize how much this guy doesn't want the Federal Government to be making the decisions about his health care. It's one thing when the costs are higher than what you've been paying to oppose it. But, with the costs being so low, it's a matter of principle.
Does no one stand up for principles anymore?

I think what started out as affordable health care has been hijacked by the insurance companies.
That said, why is buying health insurance different than buying car insurance? You must have car insurance to be a legal driver in the state of IL.

What if you're not a driver? Do you have to have insurance?

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to hlen5)

Post #: 13

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/23/2013 7:16:36 AM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Does no one see a man trying to make a point? That he'd rather fight for what he believes is right rather than take the easy way out and purchase insurance he's being coerced into buying (under threat of fines)? Doesn't anyone else see that?

First off, he's not right. His party didn't win the election, nor successful remove the Affordable Care Act from the budget battle just a week ago. The US Supreme Court made its ruling with the ACA and nothing within is unconstitutional. In fact, he's not right in the head. Most people will have bills of $130-400/month, and he's bitching about $18/month? Does that sound like someone that is right in the head? Or in serious need of a mental health specialists that is paid with the ACA plan?

Bullshit. The Supreme Court ruled that the individual mandate is not Constitutional under the Interstate Commerce Clause, but was so as a tax. It also ruled that the removal of all Medicaid funding if a State didn't expand Medicaid was not Constitutional. The Constitutionality question is not likely over, either.

The guy, obviously, isn't bitching because the cost is low. He's bitching because he feels it's not within the authority of the Federal Government to force him to spend it.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
It's not always going to be about the cost. The cost being so low for this guy should make one realize how much this guy doesn't want the Federal Government to be making the decisions about his health care. It's one thing when the costs are higher than what you've been paying to oppose it. But, with the costs being so low, it's a matter of principle.

This is not principle, its being petty and classless; you know, typical 'Tea Party' attitude. This guy holds a day job. If he cant pay $18/month for health coverage, I have to seriously wonder how his personal business operates. Maybe we should call the IRS to do an actual audit of his books. Hell, how much money did he spend to push this through the courts, DS? That's several months if not a year or two right there (assuming $18/month). You want to argue that this dingle-berry is sensible with money management skills? Quite a large amount of his money just got blown after the judge ruled against him. This is not principle, DS, this is total stupidity on display.

Bullshit. He isn't taking the easy or cheap way out, obviously. He's willing to stand up for what he thinks is right. I'd much rather stand with those people than with those who simply go along with things because it's not really a high cost.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Does no one stand up for principles anymore?

You want to see an example of principle as it relates to the issue, DS:
I feel health care is neither a right nor a privilege. Its a needed concept in my nation! A needed concept that supersedes the right and the privileged.

And, you are changing the equation with your statement. Health care isn't only for the privileged It's available for everyone. Obamacare isn't really about health care anyway. It's about insurance. The only way "health care" is made "more affordable" is by subsidizing the cost of insurance. That's not actually making health care more affordable at all. That just shifts the cost of care onto "the rich."

In your opinion, why do the costs for procedures in the US cost so much more than anywhere else?

< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 10/23/2013 7:17:46 AM >

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to joether)

Post #: 14

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/23/2013 7:29:58 AM

hlen5

Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

What if you're not a driver? Do you have to have insurance?

Being a human, at SOME point you will need healthcare. The whole point of having insurance is to cover eventualities.

_____________________________

My fave Thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2626198/mpage_1/tm.htm

One time "Phallus Expert Extraordinaire"

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 15

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/23/2013 8:11:52 AM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
What if you're not a driver? Do you have to have insurance?

Being a human, at SOME point you will need healthcare. The whole point of having insurance is to cover eventualities.

Because you didn't answer the question, I'm going to guess that the answer is "no, you don't need to have insurance if you're not going to drive."

Now that we have that squared away, what if someone chooses to never drive? Obviously, that person would never need to buy auto insurance.

What would be wrong with a person choosing to pay for the health care he/she needs rather than pay for health care that he/she may never need? If I go to the Doctor, I pay for the visit. If I require a medication, I buy that medication. If I think that I'm going to need expensive medical care, I take the necessary steps to make sure that care can be paid for. I can choose to bank large sums of money. I can also choose to purchase insurance.

Ohio Financial Responsibilty law (auto)

Individuals must maintain one of the following to comply with the FR requirements:

A motorist liability insurance policy. Insurance cards are issued by an insurer to the policy holder for each motor vehicle insured under a motor vehicle liability insurance policy;

A $30,000 bond issued by an authorized surety or insurance company;

A certificate of proof of financial responsibility signed by an insurance agent on a form prescribed by the Ohio BMV;

A certificate issued by the BMV, after proper application and approval, indicating that money or a government bond in the amount of $30,000 is on deposit with the Ohio State Treasurer;

A certificate of bond issued by the BMV, after proper application and approval, in the amount of $30,000 signed by two individuals who own real estate having equity of at least $60,000;

A certificate of self-insurance issued by the BMV, after proper application and approval, to those with more than 25 motor vehicles registered in their name or a company's name.

So, in Ohio, you don't have to buy an insurance policy to legally drive. You do have to have proof of financial responsibility to drive, but part of that stems from driving being a privilege. The State can rescind that privilege (see? Not a right)

In your opinion, why do the costs for procedures in the US cost so much more than anywhere else?

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to hlen5)

Post #: 16

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/23/2013 8:20:59 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Does no one see a man trying to make a point? That he'd rather fight for what he believes is right rather than take the easy way out and purchase insurance he's being coerced into buying (under threat of fines)? Doesn't anyone else see that?

Honestly, I do not. Here's my problem.

The plaintiffs argue the subsidies are unlawful and impose a burden by forcing them to purchase the insurance or else pay a penalty.

Now, can someone explain to me what happens the week after this guy wins his suit and "Nobody has forced him to buy insurance" and his daughter turns up with a heart murmur? Help me out here. I assume we are letting this guy celebrate his freedom to watch his daughter die, right?

edited to comment on your self-insurance option
Yup, I'd be behind that. I just speculate that the sums of money involved would limit the self-insure option to the 1% (or less).

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 10/23/2013 8:25:03 AM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 17

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/23/2013 8:22:53 AM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

What I see is a blithering idiot who has been so propagandized that he is participating in a lawsuit meant to deny other people affordable health care.

Put another way, he's participating in a lawsuit meant to preserve his own right to choose. Not to be forced into choice(s) he does not want to make.

You extreme leftists only see it one way. You're the ones who have drunk the kool-aid.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 18

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/23/2013 8:29:46 AM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Does no one see a man trying to make a point? That he'd rather fight for what he believes is right rather than take the easy way out and purchase insurance he's being coerced into buying (under threat of fines)? Doesn't anyone else see that?

Honestly, I do not. Here's my problem.

The plaintiffs argue the subsidies are unlawful and impose a burden by forcing them to purchase the insurance or else pay a penalty.

Now, can someone explain to me what happens the week after this guy wins his suit and "Nobody has forced him to buy insurance" and his daughter turns up with a heart murmur? Help me out here. I assume we are letting this guy celebrate his freedom to watch his daughter die, right?

OMG! Is there no end to the propaganda of the material communal rationalists, the enemies of liberty.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 19

RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 10/23/2013 8:54:23 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
OMG! Is there no end to the propaganda of the material communal rationalists, the enemies of liberty.

I'm afraid I missed the "explanation" part of this very simple question. Here, let me reduce it even further for you.

Guy chooses not to purchase health care insurance.
Medical need develops
Now what?

That seems like a very straight-forward question. I'm not smart enough to figure out how the phrase "material communal rationalists" applies to it.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 10/23/2013 8:55:01 AM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Yachtie)

Post #: 20

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