BitYakin
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Joined: 10/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JeffBC
quote:
ORIGINAL: BitYakin
could you pease define what you mean by "subsequent crime that will ensue?"
I'm saying your first option... an otherwise moral person when pushed to extreme will become immoral. Let me just sign myself right up for that. If I had freely chosen to not buy medical insurance and my wife was dying I'd do whatever I could, legal or otherwise, in an attempt to save her.
I guess the question for me is this, should we all give up some of our liberty, our freedom of choice, because some small percantage of people MIGHT commit desperate acts? please do keep in mind, this factor, when this all began they claimed there were some 30 milion people uninsured, that roughly 10% of the population, if 1/2 of those people end up in this desperate situation, (come on we can't assume EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS GOING TO GET CANCER) and then 1/2 of those people choose to commit a desperate act you are left with 2.5% of the population that MIGHT commit a desperate act.
That's not bad. I can live with that. So we turn down care to those without insurance and deal with whatever negative repercussions in terms of desperate acts might result. So I'd be fine with removing the mandate part of this so long as we also remove any mandate or expectation that a hospital provide emergency room treatment for the uninsured.
you people want a SOLUTION, well there it is, what are they going to do if 100 million people swamp local police stations.
First of all, I'm not sure who "you people" are in this context. But yeah, I personally like answers to be thought out beyond step 1. That being said, I like your answer... granted, I prefer a more humane answer but I can live with the "let them die in the streets" option. The simple answer to your next question is the same reasoning as you provided.... we will handle the law breakers by trying and convicting them. We will build prisons as required to hold the criminals in question. I find it debatable that 100 million people would choose to go to prison as you yourself would. I would hope that those with children would consider options other than prison.
you all want to pretend that this isn't JUST THE BEGINING of gov't forcing us to do whateve they want, but I guarentee you if you had asked my gandfather when he was alive if THIS could EVER EVER HAPPEN in the USA, he would have LAUGHED AT YOU!
Again, I'm a bit unclear who "you all" are in this sentence but I detect a bit of foaming at the mouth. Does it help you any to know that I agree with the idea of limited government intrusion? I'm fine with ripping away all the social safety nets so long as we do it openly and with eyes open regarding the consequences.
you probably think thats JUST AS FUNNY as my gandpa would have thought OBAMACARE is!
no, I don't think it's funny in an era where we have abrogated the rule of law entirely and massive and massively intrusive state surveillance of EVERYONE is the norm. What I do think is pretty funny though is your own ideological blinders and the ensuing mouth foaming. Now I have another question since your'e so big on personal freedom. I would like the freedom to not bomb random other nations and not pay for the military infrastructure required to do so. In your vision of proper government should I have the option of opting out of that and similar programs (like say the NSA and DHS as a whole) that I personally find distasteful?
I personally think that might be very interesting. I've often wondered what would happen if we presented a simplified budget at the end of your tax form where citizens could individually assign percentages of their taxes for different categories. Then the individuals would be able to say "here's how I want my money spent" and if war and killing people was attractive enough we'd do it. Otherwise, we wouldn't. Ditto with everything else.
The only thing I'd exempt from that would be things like SSI where it really IS an entitlement (eg: we all paid for it already therefore we are entitled to it).
ok just to clarify, in the first instance you people, refered to those opposed to obamacare
you go on to say I'd hope people would not chose prison,
let me relate a lil personal experince to you...
in 1976 I attended a "smoke in" in wash DC I don't know how many people actually showed up, but it was ALOT, everyone smoked pot on the whitehouse steps, NO ONE was actually arrested, simply put, there wasn't enough jail space to put thousands of people. even though they OPENLY defied federal law..
its not going to happen because people now just shrug thier shoulders and say, there isn't anything I can do about it. but if it DID HAPPEN, there would be no MASS ARRESTS, not new prisons built etc etc etc
the main reason being if say 100 million people showed up and they were all arrested it would DEVASTATE the economy and thus the tax base
they may be assholes but they aren't THAT STUPID
in the second instance, you all, refers to the people who defend obamacare and the mandate as being a neccisary evil an then laugh when someone says "THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING"
politicians are like anyone else, once they KNOW they can get aways with something, they WILL push the limits as far as they can...
I once worked for a company that did nothing but install water heaters, small company basicly ME installing and the owner who did advertising and collections etc etc etc
my wife had a company retreat where she worked and I told the boss I am going on this retreat I'll be gone for a few days, nothing was said about it until the day before it was time for me to go and I was told YOU CANNOT GO!
well I WENT, and when I got back I was told I am fired return the waters heaters to my house, so I went there and unloaded the heaters on my truck and told the guy, this is bullshit, I gave you plenty of notice to find someone to fill in for me for a couple days, and when I was sick and in the hospital I found someone to take care of bussiness while I was in the hopsital and I left... next day he calls me back and say OK you can have your job back, I looked at my wife and said, thats it, he'll NEVER try to fire me again, I can now basicly do ANYTHING I WANT, because he KNOWS he needs ME more than I need him!
same principle as a BULLY, once you whimp out to him he will NEVER STOP! and he will ALWAYS take more and more until it sooo untolerable you take some definate action
you HAVE TO FIGHT THE LITTLE BATTLES just so they KNOW you WILL NOT BE PUSHED, if you concede the LIL ONES, they will ALWAYS go for MORE AN MORE!
alot of people here seem to think the republicas are DEAD, well they are NOT, they may be weak at the moment but trust me ONE DAY the dems will screw up reallly bad and suddenly the repibs will be BACK, and if they are 1/2 a EVIL as some people say they are ohhh my godddd what the fuck do you think they are going to DO with this NEW FOUND POWER!
you all (obamacare supporters) have told the gov't so long as you can claim its a TAX, you can pretty much force us to do whatever you want
WOE to the people who threw this in the republicans face when THEY GET THIER TURN!
< Message edited by BitYakin -- 10/23/2013 11:33:23 AM >
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RE: Suing over not wanting to pay $18/month for health ... - 
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