RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours

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Pulpsmack -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/11/2006 11:19:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania The government failed the people before and after Katrina. you are blaming the victims. Yes, the "victims" broke into my car 3 times in 2 weeks (and it would have been "once, just once" I assure you, had it not been finals week).. What you fail to grasp is that a victim of scenario A can very well be a victimizer before and after in scenarios B and C. quote: I do not live in fear.. I do not need gun... I am a happy person. That sounds like famous last words of a victim of a violent assault as she clings to herself in the fetal position before sobbing herself to sleep. You don't live in fear? Good. That means you have a fair wager at actually living. As for what you need and what you don't... don't presume to know what is in store for in life. You very well might need a gun and not have one. Hey we all roll the dice. Turns out the night I needed mine was the night I brought it. I hope everybody here goes six feet under (at the appropriate time) never having lived a day where (s)he needed one, but it happens and it does so without warning. quote: If someone wants to assault you they are going to get you while you aren't expecting it.. the guy that car jacks you would kill you before he spoke to you if he was intent on doing so.. maybe from behind. Why thank you, oh wise spokeswoman of criminals at large. Someone wanted to assault those acquaintances of mine and he didn't spring from a tree doing so, Nor did the armed robber who tried to ply his trade with me. Sometimes amateurs intent on your wallet and only your wallet get nervous or panic. Sometimes they get a little experience and either get greedy (going from your wallet to your "coinpurse") or they get overconfident. What you seem to miss (by your writing) is that some people in this world plain "don't give a fuck", and they would shoot you in the face after you peacefully resigned your valuables simply because you stand on another side of the tracks, or they just don't like your face. Professional criminals knock banks over, or do well-conducted robberies when nobody is there to throw in variables, or they do real-estate, insurance, and or tax fraud. Amateur criminals will knock over the same convenient store three times in a week (knowing they keep $50 max in the drawer at all times and they are risking 8.5-11 each time for that $50). Amateur criminals will go into someone's house under the perception they have money without doing homework or without caring whether the person is inside. Amateur criminals will stick you up at the ATM or in the mall parking lot. Why? because they are desperate, unstable and/or addicted. They don't act rationally often and what they hope to gain with their pissant exploits pales in comparison to what they stand to lose. What's a floating murder charge to an addict who's facing an armed robbery, two aggrevated armed robberies and an assault and battery? It doesn't matter because he doesn't matter in his mind and you damn sure don't either. If you succumb to this armed robber you might get killed yet if you fight that rapist he WILL strangle you. They don't have these disclaimers as they approach you "maybe from behind" (lol, please). There is no telling what might happen if/when you can't steer clear of such an occurance. You can roll the dice and take action (or not) that may save/cost your life, or you let him roll them for you. I prefer to leave that in my control, or at least as much as possible. quote: As far as voters.. Im one of them that doesn't want people running around armed. Well congratulations, your vote solved nothing. As we can see from the highest violent crime centers (which coincidentally are usually accompanied by the most restrictive laws). The only thing laws in general regulate are those who are willing to obey them. All you have done is made your life or the life of another more dificult should the next collarme date go south and the person find his/her self on the business end of the deranged's obsessions. All you have done is robbed you and your neighbors of a/the choice to defend themselves from those who could care less for your laws, your happiness or your safety. Thanks to people like you, there are only 2 people running around armed... the "pigs" (as you would lovingly put it) and the criminals. Maybe you should lead a fear-based existence after all. The more I read, the wider the chasm grows between talking and knowing what you are talking about.

juliaoceania -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/11/2006 11:40:26 PM)
I am repeating what experts in self defense always state, if someone has a gun on you give up whatever they ask short of going to a second location... I am guessing that you have never lost a family member to violent crime, I have.. and I still do not want to own a gun.. but that is a personal choice.. I do not like guns, and I have a very passivist personality in general.. what you plan for often comes to pass, so the fact that you were attacked and had to use a gun doesn't surprise me.. it is the way the Universe works in my spiritual world.. what you plan for happens.. I do not plan on being a victim. On Edit, Texas has the most murders and the least restrictive laws I believe

Pulpsmack -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 12:55:35 AM)
I would be interested to know who these "experts" are that you speak of and what makes them so. What you are parroting is old hat advice driving home to people that their possessions are not worth more than they are. This ASSUMES that the person is intent on your possessions and only possessions, and that they aren't nervous, unstable, or angry enough to change course mid-transaction. The same "brilliant" advice was submitted by the media in response to a plane hijacking for years prior to 9/11: "Just sit calmly in your seat... do not try to resist or antagonize them and you will be safest". You seem hell-bent on living your life free of fear, yet you'd sooner saddle the yoke of statistics and this dubious, so-called "expert opinion" to your neck without so much as another thought. I have not lost a loved one to a violent crime, thankfully (and I am sorry that you have). I have also been fortunate enough not to have lost a loved one to an automobile accident, but if I had I would still drive and I certainly wouldn't saddle the sorrows of my tragedy upon others by voting against their RIGHT (oh wait, driving is a privilege) to drive around town, or own a car. Your mention of this tragedy is irrelevant for this reason. You erroneously direct your antipathy towards a piece of metal instead of the heartless bastards who employ it (or anything else in its absence) to ply their trade. There is nothing wrong with you abstaining from excercising your second amendment rights, but I have nothing but contempt for your kind: those who sponsor legislation that denies others who would otherwise lawfully and safely enjoy their constitutionally protected (and apparently overlooked) freedoms because of your own insecurities. I'm not one to bag on one's spirituality so I'll pretend I didn't read the S-word and consider those your personal beliefs instead, and what ridiculous, convoluted ones they are! What you plan for happens?! So I suppose collective effort of the gulf states (you know extra batteries, canned soup, and bottled water in out homes around the season) triggered one of the most devestating tragedies that befell the nation. After all, we planned for it, and sure enough, it happened! Of course that doesn't explain how those who were getting drunk in the infamous hurricane parties (which have become the fad since we have had about 8 false hurricane scares over the years) ended up dead the next day. They didn't live in fear... they didn't own guns... they were happy (and drunk) people! According to your logic, I should have been rowing an overturned Toyota around the block while they remained dry as a bone. Well... perhaps it was my extra cans of Wolf's Chili (no beans) that smote them all. Talk about convoluted logic. Did rape victims who wore provocative clothing out clubbing to "hook up" deserve it since they planned to dress like that for effect? Did this loved one of yours plan for the fatal occurance that happened and as such, did the universe then deem he/she deserved it? The fatal flaw in your universe is that bad things happen to good people, and more importantly, bad things happen to good people that shouldn't have and could have been prevented. You say you don't plan on being a victim. Based on what you have (not) written, I am not sure you plan at all. The difference between what I have read thus far and what I practice myself is that you do not plan on being a victim, whereas I do plan on NOT being a victim. I observe my surroundings, make wiser choices about where I go with certain company, and I (legally) carry a weapon with which I train and am intimately familiar. As a result of my planning, I am sitting here now in one piece, with the same wallet I had then to boot. What then does NOT planning to become a victim entail? A bold pronouncement over the internet? Doing nothing at all save keeping mental notes of what the talking head du jour on 20/20 says about robberies? Lastly, the way I understood it, a state the size of Germany is a bit large to be called a crime center. I was thinking more in terms like Boston, Chicago, D.C., New York City, and Los Angeles. But hey, it is also noteworthy that Texas is the state with the most executions and the most likely to fry a someone (well, stick now) yet as you point out... More proof that laws and punishment do nothing to deter human beings intent on violence.

mistoferin -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 5:09:30 AM)
fast reply.... In an attempt to lighten this thread with a bit of humor I am reposting something that I found on these boards some time ago....although I can't remember who the original poster was. It is humorous, although it does(or should) make one think. quote: Doctors: (A) The number of doctors in the U.S. is 700,000 (B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year are 120,000 (C) Accidental deaths per physician is 17.14% Statistics courtesy of the U.S. Dept of Health & Human Services ************************************************************************ Guns: (A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000 (yes that's 80 million) (B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500 (C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.001875% Statistics courtesy of the FBI ********************************************************************** So statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. ********************************************************************** Remember, guns don't kill people, doctors do. ********************************************************************** FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR. ********************************************************************** Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand!!! ********************************************************************** Out of concern for the public at large, I have withheld statistics on lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek medical attention.**

CrappyDom -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 5:29:24 AM)
The brits did a bayonet charge in Iraq a year or two back, worked like a charm... And I know a 110 lb girl who killed two gun wielding nutjobs, one with a deep wiggle through the eyes and the other she was still pounding the lifeless body with the rock when the pigs showed up.

JohnWarren -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 6:31:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do not plan on being a victim. Those who fail to plan, plan to fail.

JohnWarren -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 6:55:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom The brits did a bayonet charge in Iraq a year or two back, worked like a charm... There is something about edged instruments that makes people shit in their pants. One of my favorite stories about Chesty Puller was about when I was shown a new flame thrower that was being tested by the Corps. He looked it over and said "Very impressive, but where is the bayonet lug?"

mnottertail -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 6:59:53 AM)
Yeah, even guys in the army had chesty as their hero. That guy was a General... even when he was a baby, I bet.

CrappyDom -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 7:06:03 AM)
Which is why there is nothing like a 12ga riot gun with a 14" 1917 bayonet on the end of it to command fear and respect. As for all the above thing about weapons, it isn't the guy with the biggest artillery that scares me, it is the quiet guy with the .22 who is the one I worry about.

Pulpsmack -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 7:07:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnWarren quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom The brits did a bayonet charge in Iraq a year or two back, worked like a charm... There is something about edged instruments that makes people shit in their pants. One of my favorite stories about Chesty Puller was about when I was shown a new flame thrower that was being tested by the Corps. He looked it over and said "Very impressive, but where is the bayonet lug?" That's priceless.

Pulpsmack -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 7:10:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom Which is why there is nothing like a 12ga riot gun with a 14" 1917 bayonet on the end of it to command fear and respect. As for all the above thing about weapons, it isn't the guy with the biggest artillery that scares me, it is the quiet guy with the .22 who is the one I worry about. Rightfully so. Although better than a pointy stick (not a spear however) the .22 has minimal value whatsoever as a defensive weapon. As an offensive weapon it can be absolutely deadly in the "wrong" hands.

mistoferin -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 7:17:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom As for all the above thing about weapons, it isn't the guy with the biggest artillery that scares me, it is the quiet guy with the .22 who is the one I worry about. I have to comment here. You just nailed it....it isn't the weapon that is the threat...it is the person behind the weapon. That is why the 110 lb girl you spoke of made out the way she did. She confronted two thugs who mistakenly thought that waving a gun was going to ensure their outcome. They used a gun to make them appear more threatening. Had they themselves actually been more of a threat...the outcome would have most likely been different. I have disarmed a few in my day....because I had the ability to see past the weapon and guage the person behind it. This is a mistake that many people make when they purchase a gun...they think that just having it will make them safer. This is a seriously false sense of security. If you are not entirely sure that you have within you what it takes to make a clear decision as to when it is appropriate to pull that gun....and then actually pull that trigger...I would seriously suggest to you that gun ownership is not something that you may want to undertake.

JohnWarren -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 7:39:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom Which is why there is nothing like a 12ga riot gun with a 14" 1917 bayonet on the end of it to command fear and respect. As for all the above thing about weapons, it isn't the guy with the biggest artillery that scares me, it is the quiet guy with the .22 who is the one I worry about. Someone once asked me what was the most dangerous weapon I'd ever used. I put my hand next to my mouth, clicked my thumb down and said, "Fire mission, coordinates....."

JohnWarren -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 7:44:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin This is a seriously false sense of security. If you are not entirely sure that you have within you what it takes to make a clear decision as to when it is appropriate to pull that gun....and then actually pull that trigger...I would seriously suggest to you that gun ownership is not something that you may want to undertake. In another notestream, I talked about the opening lecture I used to give in a firearms self defense course I taught in Mississippi. The gist of it was a gun isn't a remote control unit or a magic shield. It's a device for blowing large bloody holes in people and if one isn't willing to do that, they shouldn't think of using a gun for self defense.

juliaoceania -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 7:47:16 AM)
It is really quite sad that you couldn't debate without ridiculing my beliefs because I am a pacifist. Good luck and I hope you never need your guns. I am not responding to anymore of your posts.. peace to you. On edit for the board: My Dom was just one of the experts that state that it is better to hand over everything that you own than get your head blown off...and I trust what he says more than what stranger on a board says without one piece of factual information to back it up.. My Dom teaches these things to others and that is enough of an expert for me.

IronBear -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 8:19:04 AM)
John, as I've commented before, it's the amateur with a gun who is the more dangerous and scarey for me because he or she is so scared they are likely to pull the trigger accidently. A pro is less likely to kill you. Mind you I've been known in a tight situation with not a lot of hope of getting out to pull a Mel Gibson and act insane.. It freeks people out and gave me the time I needed to equalise a situation... (If you're going to die you may as well try to take as many with you attitude).

Pulpsmack -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 8:22:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania It is really quite sad that you couldn't debate without ridiculing my beliefs because I am a pacifist. I certainly do not ridicule your beliefs because you are a pacifist, and if you read what I was commenting on more carefully you would know that. I ridiculed (if you wish to put it that way) your beliefs because on the merits of what was said they are ridiculous. Essentially you said that people who prepare for somethinge are in effect facillitating a self-fulfilling prophecy. You said they make it happen through their preparation and consequently the premise is they get what they deserve. I can't see how you would believe truly such a thing, but if you do then yes, in my world (right or wrong) you and any others who lend credence to those beliefs are in fact ridiculous. quote: Good luck and I hope you never need your guns. I am not responding to anymore of your posts.. peace to you. Thanks for the well wishes and have the same yourself. The choice to respond to my posts is your own affair, but if you chose to react more than reflect before posting a response to what I said then I suppose your silence may be a blessing in disguise. quote: On edit for the board: (ahhh, the silent treatment... what a delightful companion to "if you don't like what I say I'll take my bat and my ball and won't play with you anymore") My Dom was just one of the experts that state that it is better to hand over everything that you own than get your head blown off...and I trust what he says more than what stranger on a board says without one piece of factual information to back it up.. My Dom teaches these things to others and that is enough of an expert for me. You haven't chosen to believe what anybody has said factual basis or not, because you have already settled upon your agenda. You wanted facts to convince you about carrying a gun so that you may consider the possibility of owning one in one post, then contradict that by mentioning you are a pacifist, you hate guns due to a family tragedy, you are happy voting for the abridgements of your neighbors 2nd amendment rights, and it goes on. Clearly you have been argumentative for the sake of argument. The sad thing is that your Dom and I or your Dom and most anybody else on this board do not contradict eachother IF you put the statements in the proper context (which you clearly are not willing to do). As for your qualification of your Dom's expertese, it's meaningless as applied as an expert. We Dom/mes all teach others or we are not Dom/mes at all. Many of us teach these subjects to others (myself included) which would qualify us as experts in your opinion. Clearly that is false, because I am not an expert. I know what I am talking about and I have a collection of valid points but that neither makes me, your Dom or anybody else an expert. As far as following what he says, hey... you are the one with the judgment call. If he is worthy of your will and your trust then you should have carefully assessed his thoughts and capabilities before doing so and if you find him worthy than believe him when he says the sun is the moon. That is what you should be doing in the first place.

CrappyDom -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 10:09:26 AM)
John, You beat me to it. I was going to say my favorite "self defense weapon" would be a radio and an orbiting AC130. I have however, had my ass saved from a rather savage beating by a .22 short. Bottom line, the most lethal thing we possess is our mind, and few things are as lethal as a trained mind that has the clarity to see "its him or me" As an example, my money would be on IronBear with nothing but his bare hands against 4 gangbangers and a case of Uzis. This isn't movie bravado but real life. People with guns think of them as magic, the minute they face someone who they expect to cower in fear who laughs at them they go from feeling all powerful to defenseless. In addition, without training and practice, most people cannot shoot for shit. Move swiftly, take out the top dog and the pack will break and run. At 21 feet few cops can get a gun to clear a holster before a knife wielding assailant can reach them. Which is why I could never be a cop and why if I think some "noise" might be a burgler, I don't fuck around, my gun is out cocked and loaded. That said, I almost as a rule never carry a gun and have responded to what I thought might be a burgler only a couple of times in my entire life. I have had humans in my sights but lucky for them, I didn't have to shoot them. Again however, those were rare, very race incidents in a long boring life. However, I am determined that it remain longer still so YMMV.

IronBear -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 10:52:27 AM)
Given your senario CD I'd prefer to knee cap them with a 9mm hollow point.. makes the leaders scream ion agony then follow up with my favourite crowd control weapon .. A 12 gauge pump action shot gun leveled at genital height with the wearning that I will spread the shot laterally and then ask who wants instant slow castration? *<< Wonders how many guys reading this will unthinkingly grab their balls or cross their legs and shudder at the immage>>*

JohnWarren -> RE: Weaponry, protecting what's yours (7/12/2006 11:40:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom Bottom line, the most lethal thing we possess is our mind, and few things are as lethal as a trained mind that has the clarity to see "its him or me" Yup, I could tell a tale of a certain Marine, who, because of a botched insertion, was left with little but his clothing while deep inside a certain unfriendly country. An hour later, he was putting the lace back in his boot, now being in possession of an AK47 and a web harness with extra mags. There's no such thing as a dangerous weapon; there are only dangerous people.

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