quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I edited my previous msg to say that one of the articles said that the PD and/or DA stated that Molina approached the teens because he was investigating an alleged crime. If that's not the case, then he has probably set up a really good "self defense" case for Gonzalez. A big question in this case will most likely be whether or not Molina was acting under the color of law (ie- in his official capacity as an officer). If he was, then Gonzalez's lawyer will say it was a conflict of interest. If he was not; then the moment he physically touched Gonzalez (if that is indeed how it happened) Gonzalez's lawyer will claim it was self defense. Either way, its a crazy, screwed up situation that was not worth this man's life. Again- foolishness.

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Everything Morales did was wrong, he provided justification for self defense but no your not saying it's his fault.
BTW he didn't wait till "things went south" to call for backup, he had to have done it sooner because as soon as things went south he was unconscious with a fractured skull.

Like I said- "results may vary." What I wrote and what you read are obviously two different things. I accept that. You can accept it or not. Again your issue not mine.

He was not investigating an alleged crime, he had seen the crime committed.

As we all know, until you are found guilty in a court of law it is alleged. Like it our not that is how US law works. And as far as him investigating goes that was in the article.

Molina was "attempting to begin an investigation," the affidavit says.

From this article

PS- If you want the last word just say so. I don't mind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

I edited my previous msg to say that one of the articles said that the PD and/or DA stated that Molina approached the teens because he was investigating an alleged crime. If that's not the case, then he has probably set up a really good "self defense" case for Gonzalez. A big question in this case will most likely be whether or not Molina was acting under the color of law (ie- in his official capacity as an officer). If he was, then Gonzalez's lawyer will say it was a conflict of interest. If he was not; then the moment he physically touched Gonzalez (if that is indeed how it happened) Gonzalez's lawyer will claim it was self defense. Either way, its a crazy, screwed up situation that was not worth this man's life. Again- foolishness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I am not sure what the date matters but I doubt they will get off with SYG. Did you actually read this somewhere or are you just guessing?

The facts of the case were all in the link I posted in my last post. The self-defense/SYG part was purely opinion but I just checked and I was pretty spot on. http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_22029939/bond-reduced-suspect-police-officers-death

The boy's lawyer is using a self-defense plea claiming that the officer aggressively confronted the boys, used profanity and gay slurs towards them and basically passed the first lick. So that was actually a good guess on my part.

Like I said I feel very sorry for the death of this officer but what he did was very foolish. What exactly did he think was going to happen when he approached these men on the streets, off duty, out of uniform with no backup regarding a very personal incident? And he only decided to call 911 after he approached them and the situation started going south. I am very sorry he died and I sincerely hope the boy who killed him will do time, but I won't hold my breath. Again his actions were very foolish and will be used to defend the suspect. Police officers are not too popular these days and the officer was clearly wrong in how he handled this. That will most likely have a lot of influence on the outcome of this case. That being said he did not deserve to die and he does deserve justice. I hope he gets it.

But they were just children.

Yes they were. Maybe now, people will finally learn to stop following and confronting children on the street. One way or another it always seems to turn out very badly for both parties, doesn't it?

I forgot to use the sarcasm font.
And congratulations you are the first person I have seen honest enough to come out in support of feral teenagers

Don't just make crap up. I never once supported the teenagers. Neither do I support this new idiotic vigilante mentality that Americans seem to be so hyped up on lately. Its causing a lot of senseless deaths. (stupid people pulling off the freeway to shoot each other at car washes, grown ass men shooting women in distress who knock on their door for help, fools like zim confronting teenage boys whom he admitted had done nothing prior to the confrontation.) Now this officer is dead and over what? A bunch of BS. Every car owner in this country has had their car scratched before. The smart ones are still alive to tell it. This mentality that is causing people to seek out violent altercations is immature, reckless and unnecessary. Americans need to grow the hell up and stop the foolishness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Even though Molina wasn't investigating, I'd love to see the link to that law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

It is a conflict of interest for a cop to be the investigating officer on a crime that he himself is the victim of. .

It doesn't have to be a law for it to be a conflict of interest. A conflict of interest is when an individual is involved in more than one interest and one of those interests could cause him to possibly be biased in how he handled the other interest.

Example: It would be a conflict of interest for a cop to be involved in a vehicle accident with me and then have that same cop also be the accident reconstructionist who assigns blame in that accident. Its not "necessarily" illegal but it is totally inappropriate and it taints whatever outcome he reaches in his investigation. (the same goes for investigating a crime that the officer himself is a victim of.)

Merriam Webster:
Definition of CONFLICT OF INTEREST: a conflict between the private interests and the official responsibilities of a person in a position of trust.


Edited to add- one of the articles I linked states that the police dept. and DA stated that Molina approached the group of boys because he was investigating an alleged crime. Whether or not they are going to use that stand officially in court was not said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

jeez, zimmerman shot him till he was dead from when he wasnt and that was self defense.  looks like the same shit to me.

No, Zimmerman shot him once, this is as if Zimmerman had stood over him and continued shooting until he was out of bullets, very different.

Zimmerman is driven to the ground and head banged repeatedly, he is scratched, this kid drops the cop with an iron broom and the fucker is passed out?

Cmon, who you shitting.....

Molina had a fractured skull.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Americans need to grow the hell up and stop the foolishness

----------------------------

Which means letting feral teens run wild.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I edited my previous msg to say that one of the articles said that the PD and/or DA stated that Molina approached the teens because he was investigating an alleged crime. If that's not the case, then he has probably set up a really good "self defense" case for Gonzalez. A big question in this case will most likely be whether or not Molina was acting under the color of law (ie- in his official capacity as an officer). If he was, then Gonzalez's lawyer will say it was a conflict of interest. If he was not; then the moment he physically touched Gonzalez (if that is indeed how it happened) Gonzalez's lawyer will claim it was self defense. Either way, its a crazy, screwed up situation that was not worth this man's life. Again- foolishness.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Everything Morales did was wrong, he provided justification for self defense but no your not saying it's his fault.
BTW he didn't wait till "things went south" to call for backup, he had to have done it sooner because as soon as things went south he was unconscious with a fractured skull.

Like I said- "results may vary." What I wrote and what you read are obviously two different things. I accept that. You can accept it or not. Again your issue not mine.

He was not investigating an alleged crime, he had seen the crime committed.

As we all know, until you are found guilty in a court of law it is alleged. Like it our not that is how US law works. And as far as him investigating goes that was in the article.

Molina was "attempting to begin an investigation," the affidavit says.

From this article

PS- If you want the last word just say so. I don't mind.

He saw Gomez commit the crime.
He wasn't even after Gonzales, Gonzales was just trying to be tough.
The only indications of "gay slurs" came from the thugs and like it or not they aren't the most reliable witnesses.
No self defense claim will justify the beating continuing after Molina was unconscious and even the thugs seem to concur that this happened.
Disturbing the "children" is not foolishness it is civilization.
You clearly have no idea what life would be like for a cop who just stands by and watched his property vandalized.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

And all of that is based on the perception that an officer is forbidden from doing anything except running away to call 911, when off duty.  The reality is that not only do they retain the rights of an ordinary citizen, in most cases they are sworn officer 24 hours a day, and in some jurisdictions, subject to sanctions for failure to act when a crime is committed in their presence.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

I edited my previous msg to say that one of the articles said that the PD and/or DA stated that Molina approached the teens because he was investigating an alleged crime. If that's not the case, then he has probably set up a really good "self defense" case for Gonzalez. A big question in this case will most likely be whether or not Molina was acting under the color of law (ie- in his official capacity as an officer). If he was, then Gonzalez's lawyer will say it was a conflict of interest. If he was not; then the moment he physically touched Gonzalez (if that is indeed how it happened) Gonzalez's lawyer will claim it was self defense. Either way, its a crazy, screwed up situation that was not worth this man's life. Again- foolishness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I am not sure what the date matters but I doubt they will get off with SYG. Did you actually read this somewhere or are you just guessing?

The facts of the case were all in the link I posted in my last post. The self-defense/SYG part was purely opinion but I just checked and I was pretty spot on. http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_22029939/bond-reduced-suspect-police-officers-death

The boy's lawyer is using a self-defense plea claiming that the officer aggressively confronted the boys, used profanity and gay slurs towards them and basically passed the first lick. So that was actually a good guess on my part.

Like I said I feel very sorry for the death of this officer but what he did was very foolish. What exactly did he think was going to happen when he approached these men on the streets, off duty, out of uniform with no backup regarding a very personal incident? And he only decided to call 911 after he approached them and the situation started going south. I am very sorry he died and I sincerely hope the boy who killed him will do time, but I won't hold my breath. Again his actions were very foolish and will be used to defend the suspect. Police officers are not too popular these days and the officer was clearly wrong in how he handled this. That will most likely have a lot of influence on the outcome of this case. That being said he did not deserve to die and he does deserve justice. I hope he gets it.

But they were just children.

Yes they were. Maybe now, people will finally learn to stop following and confronting children on the street. One way or another it always seems to turn out very badly for both parties, doesn't it?

I forgot to use the sarcasm font.
And congratulations you are the first person I have seen honest enough to come out in support of feral teenagers

Don't just make crap up. I never once supported the teenagers. Neither do I support this new idiotic vigilante mentality that Americans seem to be so hyped up on lately. Its causing a lot of senseless deaths. (stupid people pulling off the freeway to shoot each other at car washes, grown ass men shooting women in distress who knock on their door for help, fools like zim confronting teenage boys whom he admitted had done nothing prior to the confrontation.) Now this officer is dead and over what? A bunch of BS. Every car owner in this country has had their car scratched before. The smart ones are still alive to tell it. This mentality that is causing people to seek out violent altercations is immature, reckless and unnecessary. Americans need to grow the hell up and stop the foolishness.

The kid was vandalizing a car. Doesn't matter whose car it was. It is against the law. When a cop sees someone breaking the law it's his job to try to stop them. Are you suggesting the cops turn a blind eye to people breaking the law and if so where do they draw the line? Do you honestly think that ignoring the kids will make them behave or maybe it might give them the idea that they can do what ever the fuck they want with no consequences?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Even though Molina wasn't investigating, I'd love to see the link to that law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

It is a conflict of interest for a cop to be the investigating officer on a crime that he himself is the victim of. .

It doesn't have to be a law for it to be a conflict of interest. A conflict of interest is when an individual is involved in more than one interest and one of those interests could cause him to possibly be biased in how he handled the other interest.

Example: It would be a conflict of interest for a cop to be involved in a vehicle accident with me and then have that same cop also be the accident reconstructionist who assigns blame in that accident. Its not "necessarily" illegal but it is totally inappropriate and it taints whatever outcome he reaches in his investigation. (the same goes for investigating a crime that the officer himself is a victim of.)

Merriam Webster:
Definition of CONFLICT OF INTEREST: a conflict between the private interests and the official responsibilities of a person in a position of trust.


Edited to add- one of the articles I linked states that the police dept. and DA stated that Molina approached the group of boys because he was investigating an alleged crime. Whether or not they are going to use that stand officially in court was not said.

In order for that to fit this case it would have to go more like, the two of you were in an accident and instead of getting out and helping he stayed in his car and watched you bleed to death while waiting for the cops who were not in a conflict of interest to show up and help. There is nothing about conflict of interest that says they can not stop a crime that they were part of. But your right the investigation after the fact should be conducted by others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

And all of that is based on the perception that an officer is forbidden from doing anything except running away to call 911, when off duty.  The reality is that not only do they retain the rights of an ordinary citizen, in most cases they are sworn officer 24 hours a day, and in some jurisdictions, subject to sanctions for failure to act when a crime is committed in their presence.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

I edited my previous msg to say that one of the articles said that the PD and/or DA stated that Molina approached the teens because he was investigating an alleged crime. If that's not the case, then he has probably set up a really good "self defense" case for Gonzalez. A big question in this case will most likely be whether or not Molina was acting under the color of law (ie- in his official capacity as an officer). If he was, then Gonzalez's lawyer will say it was a conflict of interest. If he was not; then the moment he physically touched Gonzalez (if that is indeed how it happened) Gonzalez's lawyer will claim it was self defense. Either way, its a crazy, screwed up situation that was not worth this man's life. Again- foolishness.

This was not a life or death situation (at first) it was simple malicious mischief (a scratched car). An ordinary citizen would have called 911. An on duty cop would have called it in so that dispatchers had a record of the incident and where the cop was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, big fuckin deal, we all get shit on. We all got shitty jobs.  Nothing special, being a cop.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, live in a world with them and get back to me, cuz I deal with those fuckin doughnut holes on a regular basis.

And there is always stand your ground.  Against them too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, live in a world with them and get back to me, cuz I deal with those fuckin doughnut holes on a regular basis.

And there is always stand your ground.  Against them too.

That's my families business, I went military instead.
It is just wonderful protecting people who hate you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, live in a world with them and get back to me, cuz I deal with those fuckin doughnut holes on a regular basis.

And there is always stand your ground.  Against them too.

That's my families business, I went military instead.
It is just wonderful protecting people who hate you.

It has been my personal experience that those who really hate cops are the ones doing shit that might get their attention. I can't think of a single person who hasn't been in trouble with the law that felt that way. Personally I can't imagine living in a world where there where none and everyone was free to do what ever the fuck they wanted regardless of who they hurt. My friends husband is one of the first and goes on rants about how those lousy cops keep trying to ruin his life because they keep busting him for drunk driving and took his licence for a while because of it. Of course the time some guy was coming by his house trying to sell stolen stuff he had no problems calling them for help but I suppose that was different. At least to him. I am still trying to figure out why she stays with him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, live in a world with them and get back to me, cuz I deal with those fuckin doughnut holes on a regular basis.

And there is always stand your ground.  Against them too.

That's my families business, I went military instead.
It is just wonderful protecting people who hate you.

It has been my personal experience that those who really hate cops are the ones doing shit that might get their attention. I can't think of a single person who hasn't been in trouble with the law that felt that way. Personally I can't imagine living in a world where there where none and everyone was free to do what ever the fuck they wanted regardless of who they hurt. My friends husband is one of the first and goes on rants about how those lousy cops keep trying to ruin his life because they keep busting him for drunk driving and took his licence for a while because of it. Of course the time some guy was coming by his house trying to sell stolen stuff he had no problems calling them for help but I suppose that was different. At least to him. I am still trying to figure out why she stays with him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. you clearly have no idea what its like. It’s the life of a cop. Your stuff, and your person gets vandalized (or injured) as a routine part of the job. You, your spouse and even your children get threatened. It’s a thankless job and laughable part is that the manager and Wendy’s is probably making more money than you. It changes nothing. If cop really wants to be a hero he should stay alive for his family and for his fellow officers because there is nothing more fucked up to a cop than having to bury another cop.

I know exactly what it is like my dad was a cop.
If you don't stop it, take action it gets worse.
Next would have been the car windows, then the tires, then the house windows when does it stop?
Cop should just accept being a victim, now that is foolishness.