RE: What can we do to retain new posters?

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (Full Version)

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OsideGirl -> RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (12/18/2013 1:29:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: wnyThroatLover I'm not entirely sure what my face-rodent has to do with posters... And I'm not entirely sure what your response has to do with the subject being discussed. wnyTL was being amusing, FD. At least, I thought him so. Stop being bad-tempered and intolerant. Leave that to the Americans - they do it much better than us. ;-) Do I need to fly over there and spank you?

iaminigo -> RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (12/18/2013 1:46:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity quote: ORIGINAL: iaminigo Expecting people to read the ToS and CoC before making their first post is kinda silly. Do you read the software license agreements on the apps you install? True, but ignorance of the law is not a valid excuse for breaking the law. I'll be honest in saying that I haven't bothered reading the ORS (Oregon Revised Statute). But just because I haven't bothered to read it does not mean that the various police agencies Id potentially face if I break a rule is going to buy my "gee, Officer...I didn't know that <fill in the blank> was illegal" defense as I try to talk my way out of a possible ticket. They post the TOS here for a reason. If you are not inclined to read it before you post, you should still be held to the same standard as those who do bother reading it. Ignorance, laziness, or "it just doesn't apply to me because I'm super special" isn't an excuse. I don't disagree with you. At all. But in your analogy, the "various police agencies" equate to some of the veteran posters here. If the question we're trying to answer is how to get more newbies to stay, I think you point out the problem we need to overcome excellently. Just as you say, if you don't like the rules here, leave. And that's what most of them do. This is an internet forum and expecting people to read and learn the rules BEFORE sampling what it's like is ridiculous. If someone makes one mistake on their first post, and everyone jumps on them, most will bounce and move on elsewhere. That's just how internet traffic works. I contend that your argument to maintain the status quo would not solve for the problem being discussed in this thread. Logically, the solution would lie in changing the status quo somehow.

lovethyself -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 1:52:00 PM)
FR I like the suggestion that Athena made to make the most common repeat threads into stickies. In fact, I would love to see most of the FAQ questions posted as separate sticky threads with the specific topic in the thread title. From my experience of elsewhere, FAQs can be a hit or miss with their usefulness. Enough so that I rarely find the information that I'm looking for in them. The FAQs here, on the otherhand, are written really well, with some great information (thanks to those who wrote them). Having them separated into different threads for the different questions would help new people to find and chime in on the topic they are looking for (don't lock these stickies). The added bonus is that the Mods could dump any thread similar enough into those sticky threads rather than just locking them and leaving locked threads to clutter up the forums. I also like the idea of a separate n00b questions here forum where there would be a more positive, less snarky attitude. Not sure how that would be worded so it could be modded effectively. On the whole, the regular forum posters are to a certain extent responsible for the types of new posters that stick around. If the environment that is created is a hostile one, the pacifists are going to find somewhere else. That's true of everywhere. If the general attitude is snark first, maybe help after (if the poster hasn't been scared off), then the people that stick around will learn that this is the way things are, and will perpetuate that attitude with others. I know I don't post much in the discussions. I hate the (sometimes unnecessary) negativity that occasionally rears it's head. When I see it, I choose to metaphorically walk away instead. Pointing it out can derail the conversation even more, and trying to answer the op when it's already gotten to that point feels useless. I know I can't effect change in others, so the only thing to do is to not feed into it. I'm also thin skinned. I don't take insults well, and I try my hardest to not invite them upon myself. Knowing how some threads are attacked, I often won't start a thread on the topic I'm working through. I will spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out just the right wording so that my point comes across loud and clear. And even then, will usually not post it. I don't think that I need to be coddled, but I also don't need to be hit upside the head with a fucking baseball bat, when a simple correction would work just as well (in my experience, the nicer response usually gets a better reception). When something is snarky and negative, it's natural for the other person to get defensive, whether they are right or not. That's not being helpful, it's being antagonistic. I also have a problem with the whole sadist defence for being rude/mean/snarky/assholish. Please, show me where in the ToS, forum guidelines, or anywhere else on this site, that I have given implied consent to be tormented and toyed with by sadists simply for being here. There were sadists at the munch last night, and they all managed to behave themselves and not show such negative behaviour towards new people. And how is it any different from the people that expect you to be their fetish delivery system? It's okay for you to get your rocks off at their expense, but it's not okay for anyone else to attempt it? I do want to say that some of the regulars are great. I've gotten help more than once that I needed, made some personal breakthroughs because of the support of some people on here. Thank you.

MariaB -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 2:02:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovethyself I'm also thin skinned. I don't take insults well, and I try my hardest to not invite them upon myself. Knowing how some threads are attacked, I often won't start a thread on the topic I'm working through. I will spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out just the right wording so that my point comes across loud and clear. And even then, will usually not post it. I don't think that I need to be coddled, but I also don't need to be hit upside the head with a fucking baseball bat, when a simple correction would work just as well (in my experience, the nicer response usually gets a better reception). When something is snarky and negative, it's natural for the other person to get defensive, whether they are right or not. That's not being helpful, it's being antagonistic. What can I say but well said! quote: I do want to say that some of the regulars are great. I've gotten help more than once that I needed, made some personal breakthroughs because of the support of some people on here. Thank you. Me too but you have to get through the initiation ceremony first and so many people leave after that first dunking.

tj444 -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 2:23:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan "use the search feature" is not stifling discussion. [sm=tantrum.gif] I have tried many times to use the search function and it SUCKS!!! totally totally SUCKS.. usually its trying to find someone's post on a recent thread and when I try to search for it, rarely ever does it show up... I end up having to find some other means to find it or simply forget it.. As far as I am concerned, using search is worse than nothing.. so telling someone to use the search function (how does anyone know if they already tried?) just makes me cringe cuz to me, search is useless.. that is one thing on this site that could stand a total overhaul to get it to work the way it should.. just sayin'.. Really? Because I've used it many times with no problem at all. I could have started a thread but I used the search feature instead. It did require experimenting a bit with keywords and/or user names to find the information I wanted but I found it. If I can do it so can everyone else. As far as knowing whether or not someone tried the search feature, I tend to assume, perhaps wrongly, they haven't used it unless they mention looking and not finding the information they wanted. This is especially true for topics I know for a fact are covered in the FAQ or are such old chestnuts that we've had dozens of threads about the topic. Really, how hard is it to find a thread about scammers, findommes, how many people are into XYZ, or the difference between sub and slave? If they can't use the search to find those topics, there's something very wrong and they probably shouldn't be allowed on the internet. I think most people just want to see evidence that newbies have put in some effort before they post. A brief statement along the lines of "I searched for X but didn't find it; could someone point me in the right direction or provide an answer in this thread" or "I read the FAQ and used search to look for A but found B, E, and J and that's not quite what I need" is easy and I don't think it's unrealistic to expect newcomers to do it. I am not the only person that has had inferior results using search here, the more frustrating and difficult it is to find something using search, the less likely people like me & newbies will use it.. the only reason I would keep "tinkering" with words/usernames in search is if I already know it exists (such as I saw the post/thread earlier and now want to find it so I can post but dam it I can't find it!).. If I didn't already know it exists then it would be one try only expecting that search was not showing it cuz it doesn't exist.. imo, CM should fix the search so it works better and then that should cut down on some of the duplicate threads..

tj444 -> RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (12/18/2013 2:31:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iaminigo I saw a suggestion to remove post counts - I think that's a great idea. I think its a much better idea to simply show the number of GOLD WARNING LETTERS & "waiting approval" spankings!.. [;)] [:D]

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 3:08:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I am not the only person that has had inferior results using search here, the more frustrating and difficult it is to find something using search, the less likely people like me & newbies will use it.. the only reason I would keep "tinkering" with words/usernames in search is if I already know it exists (such as I saw the post/thread earlier and now want to find it so I can post but dam it I can't find it!).. If I didn't already know it exists then it would be one try only expecting that search was not showing it cuz it doesn't exist.. imo, CM should fix the search so it works better and then that should cut down on some of the duplicate threads.. If you try the search and fail, that's okay. Just say so and someone else may have more success and can post links. Others will take the time to type out an answer. Either way, you're getting the information, so it's all good. But the point you seem to be missing or I'm somehow failing to convey is that you put in the effort to try whereas most of the newbs do not. They just post, and reading the FAQ or using the search feature never crosses their minds because they have a sense of entitlement telling them they should have whatever they want nownownow without bothering to put forth any effort. I won't try to speak for others, but I know I'm a lot more inclined to expend the energy and resources required to type out a comprehensive answer to an OP if the person can demonstrate they've made an effort to help themselves first. I don't think that's too much to ask of anyone.

Apocalypso -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 3:12:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan I won't try to speak for others, but I know I'm a lot more inclined to expend the energy and resources required to type out a comprehensive answer to an OP if the person can demonstrate they've made an effort to help themselves first. I don't think that's too much to ask of anyone. That's entirely reasonable and I get where you're coming from. But I'd suggest that the barrier for ridiculing a poster should be a fair bit higher then the one for simply ignoring their thread.

VideoAdminChi -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 3:14:22 PM)
quote: I am not the only person that has had inferior results using search here, the more frustrating and difficult it is to find something using search, the less likely people like me & newbies will use it.. the only reason I would keep "tinkering" with words/usernames in search is if I already know it exists (such as I saw the post/thread earlier and now want to find it so I can post but dam it I can't find it!).. If I didn't already know it exists then it would be one try only expecting that search was not showing it cuz it doesn't exist.. imo, CM should fix the search so it works better and then that should cut down on some of the duplicate threads.. There was a period of time when Search was not working, but my understanding is that the system will search at least up to the past 6 months now. Please CMail me examples of some search phrases that should be working but are not.

Kana -> RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (12/18/2013 3:17:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: iaminigo I saw a suggestion to remove post counts - I think that's a great idea. I think its a much better idea to simply show the number of GOLD WARNING LETTERS & "waiting approval" spankings!.. [;)] [:D] Dag-we could call it the Trollcount! P.S.-As for newbies, fuck em (If they're hot,I mean that quite literally). We're all, at least, theoretically adults here. If they wanna put some thoughts out, they gotta be willing to take the flack that comes with it. JMHO and all, kind man that I am

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 3:32:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Apocalypso quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan I won't try to speak for others, but I know I'm a lot more inclined to expend the energy and resources required to type out a comprehensive answer to an OP if the person can demonstrate they've made an effort to help themselves first. I don't think that's too much to ask of anyone. That's entirely reasonable and I get where you're coming from. But I'd suggest that the barrier for ridiculing a poster should be a fair bit higher then the one for simply ignoring their thread. Define "ridicule." There are some people on this thread who have indicated they believe telling someone to "use search" or "read the FAQ" to be ridicule when the reality is that it's a perfectly valid answer. If I know for a fact that the answer to a question is in the FAQ and someone asks the same question anyway, I know they haven't bothered to make use of the resources that have been provided. I don't see any reason to coddle that person because they've already demonstrated laziness. I have no problem telling them "if you'd bothered to read the FAQ you would already know the answer to that" and I don't think that qualifies as ridicule. There's no value judgement, it's a simple statement of fact. If people can't handle having that fact pointed out to them, that's on them. They can suck it up and do better in the future.

iaminigo -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 3:43:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan quote: ORIGINAL: Apocalypso quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan I won't try to speak for others, but I know I'm a lot more inclined to expend the energy and resources required to type out a comprehensive answer to an OP if the person can demonstrate they've made an effort to help themselves first. I don't think that's too much to ask of anyone. That's entirely reasonable and I get where you're coming from. But I'd suggest that the barrier for ridiculing a poster should be a fair bit higher then the one for simply ignoring their thread. Define "ridicule." There are some people on this thread who have indicated they believe telling someone to "use search" or "read the FAQ" to be ridicule when the reality is that it's a perfectly valid answer. If I know for a fact that the answer to a question is in the FAQ and someone asks the same question anyway, I know they haven't bothered to make use of the resources that have been provided. I don't see any reason to coddle that person because they've already demonstrated laziness. I have no problem telling them "if you'd bothered to read the FAQ you would already know the answer to that" and I don't think that qualifies as ridicule. There's no value judgement, it's a simple statement of fact. If people can't handle having that fact pointed out to them, that's on them. They can suck it up and do better in the future. Perhaps, in the context of this thread the best thing to do would be to refrain from posting in threads that annoy you? Also, when I reply to the thread the subject is "What can we do to [train] new posters" but it's listed in the forums with the subject "What can we do to retain new posters" - that's a weird difference...

RedMagic1 -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 3:47:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iaminigo Also, when I reply to the thread the subject is "What can we do to [train] new posters" but it's listed in the forums with the subject "What can we do to retain new posters" - that's a weird difference... Someone changed the heading using the Fast Reply box. If you type out a reply at the very bottom, you can change the subject line of the thread. But the new subject line isn't displayed everywhere, just in some views. It's a weakness in the forum software, but hey. Free site, and the forums don't produce any revenue.

iaminigo -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 3:53:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: iaminigo Also, when I reply to the thread the subject is "What can we do to [train] new posters" but it's listed in the forums with the subject "What can we do to retain new posters" - that's a weird difference... Someone changed the heading using the Fast Reply box. If you type out a reply at the very bottom, you can change the subject line of the thread. But the new subject line isn't displayed everywhere, just in some views. It's a weakness in the forum software, but hey. Free site, and the forums don't produce any revenue. Why don't they monetize with some banners? (ducks whatever is being thrown for even suggesting it) They must have decent enough traffic here that they could drive some revenue and invest in some improvements?

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 3:57:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iaminigo Perhaps, in the context of this thread the best thing to do would be to refrain from posting in threads that annoy you? You assume annoyance where there may or may not be any. Annoyance depends on a variety of factors, including subtle nuances of language that indicate whether the person is clueless but sincere, trolling for wank fodder, or looking for a soapbox from which to pontificate. In the context of this discussion, "read the FAQ" is a valid response. You may not like it, but that does not make it less valid. Get over it.

iaminigo -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 4:00:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan In the context of this discussion, "read the FAQ" is a valid response. You may not like it, but that does not make it less valid. Get over it.[/color][/size][/font] We're not discussing valid responses. We're discussing why newbies don't stick around. I contend responses that require someone to "get over it" are exactly why the topic exists, and aren't really helpful. You're just driving people off. Is that your intent?

LadyPact -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 4:00:48 PM)
A quick word on the FAQ thing......... There is a huge difference in the way a thread evolves when a person gives those FAQ sections a shot. Some time back, I had a question that was very specifically directed to those who participate on the Gorean forum. I included in My post that I was unable to find what I was looking for and asked My question. Unlike those who say they don't want to read "old" conversations, I actually found them quite interesting. I got an overwhelmingly positive and receptive response. Both on the thread and via private mail. Remember, that's the Gorean forum and that forum hasn't ever had the reputation for being overly friendly. (Sorry to our Gorean friends, but that reputation has been out there in the past.) I received a lot of compliments for at least attempting to do some research on My own and I really appreciated that. Edited for a typo.

DesFIP -> RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (12/18/2013 4:07:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity This is an internet forum and expecting people to read and learn the rules BEFORE sampling what it's like is ridiculous. If someone makes one mistake on their first post, and everyone jumps on them, most will bounce and move on elsewhere. That's just how internet traffic works. But not everyone does walk in cold and goes about making huge and frequent mistakes. If I have to go to a cocktail party (God forbid) I don't walk in saying the Democrats or Republicans are absolute idiots who ought to be shot. For all I know, the host has invited his rabidly Conservative boss and I'll get him in trouble. I use cocktail party talk; weather, sports, who do we know in common until I have gotten a sense of what does and doesn't work in this group. Same with every internet forum I've been in. Old rose forums at gardenweb or a group at fetlife, each group has its own personality. And as the newcomer, it's my responsibility to fit in. It is not the group's responsibility to change to adapt to me. Junior year of high school I entered a newly desegregated school. They had a quota of African Americans and Jews and most of these girls were from segregated neighborhoods where they hadn't ever met any of us. I did not become one of the 'popular' girls but I became friendly with almost all of them. I even got along with the scary ones. And I'm an introvert with social anxiety. I adapted well because I needed to. I used appropriate coping skills, like listening to what they talked about and then joining in. And then I went to a carrel in the back room of the library to regroup and get more energy.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 4:07:36 PM)
Can we just pop a new section in between "intro and positive" entitled "because you're new" sticky the most frequent crap and hand out whips n chairs to prepare them for the other forums? Exiled

tj444 -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 4:18:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I am not the only person that has had inferior results using search here, the more frustrating and difficult it is to find something using search, the less likely people like me & newbies will use it.. the only reason I would keep "tinkering" with words/usernames in search is if I already know it exists (such as I saw the post/thread earlier and now want to find it so I can post but dam it I can't find it!).. If I didn't already know it exists then it would be one try only expecting that search was not showing it cuz it doesn't exist.. imo, CM should fix the search so it works better and then that should cut down on some of the duplicate threads.. If you try the search and fail, that's okay. Just say so and someone else may have more success and can post links. Others will take the time to type out an answer. Either way, you're getting the information, so it's all good. But the point you seem to be missing or I'm somehow failing to convey is that you put in the effort to try whereas most of the newbs do not. They just post, and reading the FAQ or using the search feature never crosses their minds because they have a sense of entitlement telling them they should have whatever they want nownownow without bothering to put forth any effort. I won't try to speak for others, but I know I'm a lot more inclined to expend the energy and resources required to type out a comprehensive answer to an OP if the person can demonstrate they've made an effort to help themselves first. I don't think that's too much to ask of anyone. no I am not missing the point.. that is why I said it should cut down on some of the duplicate threads, not all.. I know for myself, I search the internet all the time so searching is almost automatic with me when I want to find some info.. just on here I stopped cuz of the frustration factor.. I am sure there are many people that don't actually do much searching for anything on the internet (so wouldn't here either), but then I don't spend any time/energy on FB or relying on spammy emails for my information.. [:D] Now I just save the link to interesting/iinformative threads I stumble upon, that way I don't have to search for it again..

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