RE: What can we do to retain new posters?

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (Full Version)

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iaminigo -> RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (12/18/2013 4:20:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP But not everyone does walk in cold and goes about making huge and frequent mistakes. Of course not everyone. Just the majority of new users that aren't sticking around. These forums are structured to bounce idiots, but IMHO they are also filtering lots of good people who don't know or understand the mores of this group. It has become a clique, not a place where all sorts of divergent opinions, both new and old can be freely expressed. I'll give an example - this is a very eloquent and well spoken group. When people don't use proper grammar, they are ridiculed. If we want people to use proper grammar and punctuation AND stick around, maybe we should leave it until their 5 or 6th post before letting them in on their faux pas? Maybe have it be treated as such instead of a federal offense?

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 4:21:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iaminigo quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan In the context of this discussion, "read the FAQ" is a valid response. You may not like it, but that does not make it less valid. Get over it. We're not discussing valid responses. We're discussing why newbies don't stick around. I contend responses that require someone to "get over it" are exactly why the topic exists, and aren't really helpful. You're just driving people off. Is that your intent? Actually, we are discussing how to retain newbies, which includes examining how regulars respond to them because that is a factor in how well newcomers assimilate into the culture of CollarChat. If forum regulars are "driving people off" as you claim, then evaluating the responses given by regulars is an important piece of data that must be examined. To be blunt, I find your claim that regulars such as me are driving people off to be specious at best. From your previous posts, it seems you would like to absolve newcomers of any personal responsibility for how they are received and that is as far from a realistic position as it is possible to take. You have already demonstrated that your logic skills are lacking so, at this point, any further rebuttal on your part is futile because you are working from a flawed premise. Frankly, I don't mind when some newbies are "driven off" because their posts demonstrate they are incapable of making what I consider to be a valuable contribution to the forum. That doesn't mean I agree with everyone who makes a valuable contribution. Often, I find myself in disagreement with them. But I recognize the value in that disagreement and I can respect it. Not everyone has the capacity to make that level of contribution and I don't consider it a loss if they leave.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 4:25:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant Can we just pop a new section in between "intro and positive" entitled "because you're new" sticky the most frequent crap and hand out whips n chairs to prepare them for the other forums? Exiled Waste of time. For the majority of newbies that do actually suffer the wrath of the regulars, quite often the response is justified IMHO. This is because those types have instantly demonstrated that they haven't bothered to stick to the rules, usually flouted the ToS, and by obvious choice of topic and content, not bothered to even try the search. And for those people, they won't bother with the new section nor any new sticky threads to read. And therein lies the root of the problem.

SeekingTrinity -> RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (12/18/2013 4:33:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP quote: ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity This is an internet forum and expecting people to read and learn the rules BEFORE sampling what it's like is ridiculous. If someone makes one mistake on their first post, and everyone jumps on them, most will bounce and move on elsewhere. That's just how internet traffic works. But not everyone does walk in cold and goes about making huge and frequent mistakes. If I have to go to a cocktail party (God forbid) I don't walk in saying the Democrats or Republicans are absolute idiots who ought to be shot. For all I know, the host has invited his rabidly Conservative boss and I'll get him in trouble. I use cocktail party talk; weather, sports, who do we know in common until I have gotten a sense of what does and doesn't work in this group. Same with every internet forum I've been in. Old rose forums at gardenweb or a group at fetlife, each group has its own personality. And as the newcomer, it's my responsibility to fit in. It is not the group's responsibility to change to adapt to me. Junior year of high school I entered a newly desegregated school. They had a quota of African Americans and Jews and most of these girls were from segregated neighborhoods where they hadn't ever met any of us. I did not become one of the 'popular' girls but I became friendly with almost all of them. I even got along with the scary ones. And I'm an introvert with social anxiety. I adapted well because I needed to. I used appropriate coping skills, like listening to what they talked about and then joining in. And then I went to a carrel in the back room of the library to regroup and get more energy. I actually didn't make that quote. That was iaminigo who said that in response to something I had said. quote: ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity quote: ORIGINAL: iaminigo Expecting people to read the ToS and CoC before making their first post is kinda silly. Do you read the software license agreements on the apps you install? True, but ignorance of the law is not a valid excuse for breaking the law. I'll be honest in saying that I haven't bothered reading the ORS (Oregon Revised Statute). But just because I haven't bothered to read it does not mean that the various police agencies Id potentially face if I break a rule is going to buy my "gee, Officer...I didn't know that <fill in the blank> was illegal" defense as I try to talk my way out of a possible ticket. They post the TOS here for a reason. If you are not inclined to read it before you post, you should still be held to the same standard as those who do bother reading it. Ignorance, laziness, or "it just doesn't apply to me because I'm super special" isn't an excuse. The bolded part is what I had originally written. I personally think it's not too much to ask at all for people to know the rules of the playground before hopping on the equipment to play.

iaminigo -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 4:38:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan quote: ORIGINAL: iaminigo quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan In the context of this discussion, "read the FAQ" is a valid response. You may not like it, but that does not make it less valid. Get over it. We're not discussing valid responses. We're discussing why newbies don't stick around. I contend responses that require someone to "get over it" are exactly why the topic exists, and aren't really helpful. You're just driving people off. Is that your intent? Actually, we are discussing how to retain newbies, which includes examining how regulars respond to them because that is a factor in how well newcomers assimilate into the culture of CollarChat. If forum regulars are "driving people off" as you claim, then evaluating the responses given by regulars is an important piece of data that must be examined. To be blunt, I find your claim that regulars such as me are driving people off to be specious at best. From your previous posts, it seems you would like to absolve newcomers of any personal responsibility for how they are received and that is as far from a realistic position as it is possible to take. You have already demonstrated that your logic skills are lacking so, at this point, any further rebuttal on your part is futile because you are working from a flawed premise. Frankly, I don't mind when some newbies are "driven off" because their posts demonstrate they are incapable of making what I consider to be a valuable contribution to the forum. That doesn't mean I agree with everyone who makes a valuable contribution. Often, I find myself in disagreement with them. But I recognize the value in that disagreement and I can respect it. Not everyone has the capacity to make that level of contribution and I don't consider it a loss if they leave. I for one don't appreciate you driving off people based on your judgement of their level of contribution. I like to make my own judgment. I think abstaining from engaging with posts that you personally don't like might help retain new posters, like the thread title says. Nobody made you a "cop" to drive off undesirables.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 4:43:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 no I am not missing the point.. that is why I said it should cut down on some of the duplicate threads, not all.. I know for myself, I search the internet all the time so searching is almost automatic with me when I want to find some info.. just on here I stopped cuz of the frustration factor.. I am sure there are many people that don't actually do much searching for anything on the internet (so wouldn't here either), but then I don't spend any time/energy on FB or relying on spammy emails for my information.. [:D] Now I just save the link to interesting/iinformative threads I stumble upon, that way I don't have to search for it again.. Fair enough. I'll admit I'm multitasking today so I may not have read your post as thoroughly as I should have. My bad! [:D] Here's a tip you might like - it's possible to use Google to find threads on CollarChat if you plug in "collarme" as one of the keywords. I'm not sure if it's more or less reliable than the search feature here, but it can be done. The solution that works best for me is to click Subscribe on threads I want to find later.

DesFIP -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 4:47:36 PM)
@SeekingTrinity: Sorry about that. I'm coughing and not reading carefully.

SeekingTrinity -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 4:49:27 PM)
No worries, DesFIP [:)]

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 5:05:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iaminigo I for one don't appreciate you driving off people based on your judgement of their level of contribution. I like to make my own judgment. I think abstaining from engaging with posts that you personally don't like might help retain new posters, like the thread title says. Nobody made you a "cop" to drive off undesirables. Again, you argue from a flawed premise. You assume that I am responsible for running people off. I refute that assessment because I know I'm one of the less vocal of the regular posters. I rarely get on a soapbox and my posts are generally short, to the point, and focus on facts and issues presented in other posts rather than what may or may not be on a poster's profile or journal. I know other people look at the profile of a person posting to get a better sense of who they are and where their point of view is coming from, but I seldom do. If I'm running people off, which I seriously doubt, I should get a medal for awesomeness because I must have some mad skills. As for whether or not you appreciate how I conduct myself, I don't really care. You are no more a mod than I am and I don't have to conform to your views of how the forum should be run. As long as I abide by the TOS and the Guidelines - which you maintain it is not important to read before posting - then I may speak as I wish. If people are run off by that, I don't care because they probably aren't going to make much of a contribution anyway. That being said, I've already volunteered to be one of the people to act as welcome wagon/mentor/forum guide who holds hands and helps new people learn their way around and get acclimated so they feel welcome and will be more inclined to stick around. I don't see you doing that. All I see is you whining about "teh ebil clik ov meenies, bawwww!" Put your money where your mouth is or STFU.

TNDommeK -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 5:26:55 PM)
FR Gosh, I disappear for a couple of days and the best threads pops up. I must admit I didn't read the whole thing, but..I'm so tired of hearing about this " clique" crap. There is no clique! I've been here for a while and I've had no so pleasant words with people inside the "clique". Does that mean we hate each other? Gosh I hope not! Does that mean we don't speak? No. Everyone has different opinions. I like what RS had to say: grow up, get over it! Not directed to any one person, just in general. Yes there are some that can be a touch harsher than others..but this IS an adult site. Grow up.

iaminigo -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 5:56:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan quote: ORIGINAL: iaminigo I for one don't appreciate you driving off people based on your judgement of their level of contribution. I like to make my own judgment. I think abstaining from engaging with posts that you personally don't like might help retain new posters, like the thread title says. Nobody made you a "cop" to drive off undesirables. Again, you argue from a flawed premise. You assume that I am responsible for running people off. I refute that assessment because I know I'm one of the less vocal of the regular posters. I rarely get on a soapbox and my posts are generally short, to the point, and focus on facts and issues presented in other posts rather than what may or may not be on a poster's profile or journal. I know other people look at the profile of a person posting to get a better sense of who they are and where their point of view is coming from, but I seldom do. If I'm running people off, which I seriously doubt, I should get a medal for awesomeness because I must have some mad skills. As for whether or not you appreciate how I conduct myself, I don't really care. You are no more a mod than I am and I don't have to conform to your views of how the forum should be run. As long as I abide by the TOS and the Guidelines - which you maintain it is not important to read before posting - then I may speak as I wish. If people are run off by that, I don't care because they probably aren't going to make much of a contribution anyway. That being said, I've already volunteered to be one of the people to act as welcome wagon/mentor/forum guide who holds hands and helps new people learn their way around and get acclimated so they feel welcome and will be more inclined to stick around. I don't see you doing that. All I see is you whining about "teh ebil clik ov meenies, bawwww!" Put your money where your mouth is or STFU. I'm welcoming people in the Intros forum. The rest of your post is a troll, and I'm not biting.

DesFIP -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 6:39:15 PM)
I actually disagree with your thought that we should wait several posts before telling a new poster that using text speak gets him ignored and that he'll have better luck if he acts as though he thinks we're people he wants to interact with instead of otherwise. Because those 6 posts could be three weeks by which time he'll then be shocked to be asked not to, saying obviously nobody minds or they would have told him in the beginning. Many people have overinflated sense of their own importance and cannot accept any disagreement online. If you use soft soap, they'll ignore the message underneath. If you're straight forward, they'll claim ad hominem attacks.

cloudboy -> RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (12/18/2013 6:44:47 PM)
Don't chase away the good posters who are good reads. The example that I think of is simply Michael, who left after being put on moderation. Besides that, it's the members here who either make the CMMB good or bad. What I've seen is that when good posters pack up and leave, a hole is left behind. Luckily there is still a pretty decent core of posters still here.

cloudboy -> RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (12/18/2013 6:50:53 PM)
I totally agree with your point.

shiftyw -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 6:53:26 PM)
FR- ^ I would first like to say, and perhaps I missed it somewhere, it would be really cool if you had a sticky of commonly used terms and acronyms- especially what "FR" means- for the first month here I didn't even notice I was replying just to the last person who posted, and while I figured it out- I spent a good while looking for an "acronyms" sticky. I'm relatively new. Granted...I try not to be stupid, lurked and figured out the dynamic, and I realize that the whole world isn't waiting on the edge of their seat to hear my opinion on fakes, fin dommes, etc. , but you have retained me. I think the idea of a "Because you're new" section is great. As someone who is relatively new to BDSM, I would appreciate a place for those new to the lifestyle (as well as the forums) so that if I post there its clear that I am inexperienced, and I don't have to go into a whole diary entry about every experience I've n/ever had- and those who didn't really want to waste time explaining something to a newbie wouldn't have to be bothered by it (as much, I'm sure it wouldn't solve all the issues of "incorrect postings But I'm not sure I'm who you're really looking for because tend to not create new posts because I'm here to learn- and what I would like to ask has been asked before- or seems like a question likely to annoy someone who has been asked it a hundred times (although maybe not in the last three months) and could be answered with some googling on my part.

OsideGirl -> RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (12/18/2013 6:53:52 PM)
The reality is that there are people that just don't want to be part of the message forums. They don't contribute, or the entirety of their contribution is wank fantasy or pimping themselves or some website. Go through the Intros forum, where the mandate is that everyone has to be welcoming. How many of those people made more than one post, even after being coddled?

cloudboy -> RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (12/18/2013 6:59:35 PM)
Stop the "regulars" from being back seat mods. The amount of posters who think they know or understand the ToS when they really dont, and harp, jump or otherwise degrade new users is extremely discouraging. If your not a mod, simple, DONT mod, theres a button to report. Report it and keep your comments to yourself about what it is you like dont like would like to change. --------------------------- I agree 100%, but I'm not a fan of heavy moderation either. Let me just say too, that as a poster I don't ever report anyone, I like to take on my targets directly and defend my own self. The only thing I would report is posting that might hurt someone out there in the real world.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 7:00:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TNDommeK There is no clique! Pfft. You're one of the cliquiest bitches here. (Kidding! [:D]) quote: ORIGINAL: iaminigo I'm welcoming people in the Intros forum. The rest of your post is a troll, and I'm not biting. LOL, u mad, bro? Seriously, you can't support your argument so you're running away, and I haven't even been harsh with you. This is an example of what happens when newbies come here claiming they know all and trying to dictate how the forum operates when the reality is they don't know nearly as much as they think they do. People who have been here a long time and have made a place for themselves point out the flaws in the argument and/or presentation and then the newbies whine, bluster, and eventually flounce. Or else they stay, take the criticism, cowboy up and make their own place within the forum culture. This scenario is not limited to CollarChat. I see it in the groups I run on FetLife and on other forums I've run or in which I've participated over the years. So far, nothing you've said is going to help retain newcomers but it does serve to highlight some of the issues that need to be contended with and that's where emphasizing reading the TOS and Guidelines is going to play a role. There's really no getting around the need to place more emphasis on requiring newbies to educate themselves about the rules of the forum before they post.

iaminigo -> RE: What can we do to [train] new posters? (12/18/2013 7:04:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I actually disagree with your thought that we should wait several posts before telling a new poster that using text speak gets him ignored and that he'll have better luck if he acts as though he thinks we're people he wants to interact with instead of otherwise. Because those 6 posts could be three weeks by which time he'll then be shocked to be asked not to, saying obviously nobody minds or they would have told him in the beginning. Many people have overinflated sense of their own importance and cannot accept any disagreement online. If you use soft soap, they'll ignore the message underneath. If you're straight forward, they'll claim ad hominem attacks. I for one don't care how someone communicates. I can read text speak, and there are times when its appropriate. In 3 weeks he may find that others come out of the woodwork who are a bit more accepting, and care less what those that insist on it say. It's easy enough to leave those people/threads alone if that's not what you want to associate or participate with, but why drive them off? That's what I'm saying. I realize that some groups here prefer otherwise, but it's a relatively public forum, and these grammar rules are not a vital part of the CoC. I'm not suggesting you have to like it or accept it, I'm suggesting you should allow it. If we're talking how to retain new posters, and we're talking about loosening the normal cultural filters that are in place around here, we necessarily are talking about change. What kinds of things that are normally not welcome here could we be more tolerant of?

RedMagic1 -> RE: What can we do to retain new posters? (12/18/2013 7:06:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Let me just say too, that as a poster I don't ever report anyone, I like to take on my targets directly and defend my own self. The only thing I would report is posting that might hurt someone out there in the real world. I've reported attacks on me a handful of times since 2007. I think it's appropriate when the post damages the thread. If there's a good conversation going, why have an off-topic drama post, or, worse, thread skirmish. Food for thought, maybe. The point isn't calling someone else to defend you, at least not in my eyes. It's keeping things productive and useful for people who might be confused about, or scared of, their own kinks.

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