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Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 11:46:25 AM   
planomaid


Posts: 77
Joined: 10/4/2004
Status: offline 		Whatever happened to being nice to someone?  I see sooo many posts on here from dominants who get off on hurting and humiliating submissives and wrap the cloak of dominance around theirself as justification.  And while I don't see it myself, I know there's lots of wankers and posers who are the exact opposite, who look for humiliation as a way to get off sexually.  But I'm on the other side of the collar, so that's what I'm going to talk about here.

So, what drives a dominant to treat another person like shit and proclaim that they will cherish and love and desire that person?  Aren't you supposed to CARE and LOVE the person you are with?  Sure, if you are just looking for a piece of meat to fuck over, then there's some justification there.  But I can't recall one post where the dominant says they are looking for a disposable submissive.  No, they pretty much are looking for something that lasts more than one session.  Or at least that's what they are stating. 

I wonder how much of the desire to humilate and inflict emotional anguish on someone else comes from internal insecurities?  Or perhaps the dominant was fucked over by someone else in the past and they feel that they need to do the same to as many others to justify their own "strength"?

I'm not oblivious to the sexualization of humiliation.  Actually, I'm sometimes appalled at how sooo much of the lifestyle has devolved into nothing but kinky sex for people.  It's not the ONLY reason to be dominant/submissive!  And there are many opportunities for healthy and sensual encounters between dominant and submissive.  But so much seems to be oriented around "suck my dick bitch" or "lick me bitch" - bitch seems to be an overly common non-gender specific descriptive of the submissive performing sexual acts with their mouth. 

Maybe its a personal preference, but I've never been turned on by someone (usually female) screaming at me to kneel before them like the piece of shit I am.  I happen to like the Southern traditions of a lady - and anyone who knows anything about the South would NEVER make the mistake of thinking that a woman acting lady like is weak!  No, Southern girls use their femininty as both a badge of honor and as a very effective instrument when interacting with men.  It's not a question of equality, its a question of how the two genders are taught to interact in polite society, especially in the public forum.

So that gets me back to my original question.  Is there something to the dominant being insecure with their own self to humiliate submissives?  Or could it be that they are insecure in their role and fall back on what they read in books or see on the web to cover their own shortcomings?  And while there is certainly a portion who are neither and truly get off on humiliating others, I am hoping that they are a distinct minority.

I would be interested in hearing from both genders weighing in with their opinions.  Oh, and if you feel the need to flame or insult, please do so.  I can assure you that it will not cause me any mental anguish or pain.

thanks! 

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 11:59:43 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		LOL...who would want to flame or insult you when you ask for it?

(in reply to planomaid)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:02:43 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Not really.

I just think it's fun-I'm odd. I didn't join an alternative lifestyle to explore new horizons in vanilla comformity-including how to love someone.

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:06:48 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Humiliation is no different from any other fetish... no different from masochism, from foot worship, from forceplay.
It is another tool that leads to the goal.
 
Somethimes, that goal is orgasm, but not always.  Some get into that head space that helps them move forward.   Some people find it empowering, I know I do.  Some just like the thrill.  The word 'bitch' is only negative if you make it negative.  'Slut' is another.  They are simple words that define a moment.
 
Dominants are not insecure who use these words, nor are the s-types that respond.  In fact, the majority are actually alot stronger and more secure when re-enforcing these 'roles' together.
 
It hasn't increased in any form in wiitwd, but like all things, it's expressed about more now - people are alot more open about their interests.  BDSM isn't just dominants and submissives - so singling out just these particular people is looking at just one single view.
It's not your thing, so let others live their desires and move on.
 
I am glad that flaming and insults do not cause you any mental anguish.  It is a shame that humiliation, and dominants and submissives that practise this tool, do.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to planomaid)
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RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:11:28 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		One day you might learn that certain people need to be humiliated in order to be loved and cared for.

Until then, you won't understand how this works.

quote:

ORIGINAL: planomaid

So, what drives a dominant to treat another person like shit and proclaim that they will cherish and love and desire that person?  Aren't you supposed to CARE and LOVE the person you are with?

(in reply to planomaid)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:11:55 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		Iv never been one into degredation name calling or humiliation, (though I do love exabitionism in the context of playing in a club in the lifestyle) one of my limits is such, I have been hurt enough emotional and  am sooooo very sensative that the moment a man utters a nasty thing to me it ruins the scene I break out of subspace and normally I cant get back into it again at least not with that person on that session. It sets of lil bells in my head that tells me this is no longer safe this is no longer fun. While I love haveing a Dom order me and be rough some times with hair pulling and what not, a REAL STRONG Domanent does not need to resort to Nastyness to get his point across to me You have more chance of getting a posative reaction frim me by simply ordering me fermly(simply raising your vioce will do this) to do something useing his power over me to have me do something, incorperateing the words pig bitch and slut into the sentance doesnt inspire me to do as you ask, in fact it brings out the oppasit in me Once someone starts with those words it brings me back to the gradeschool play ground and all the other kids pointing and makeing fun of me, it didnt turn me on then and it doesnt turn me on now.

What they say is true you get more flies with honey then vinigure!!!

-da enigma-

_____________________________

Leather strap $85.00 on Master card
Wooden paddle $50.00 on Master card
ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:13:31 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I was into humiliation BEFORE I found WIIWD. I played with it for thrills with a couple of my vanilla boyfriends. I have a dom that doesn't enjoy that aspect of it, and I do not need it as a kink personally. I remember how hot it used to make me though. I think that if I got together with a different dominant I could learn to get off on it again maybe.. who knows? My Daddy teaches self defense to women and says nasty humiliating things to them to piss them off enough to defend themselves in a fight. He tells me he doesnt enjoy bringing home his work with him, who knows, if he wasn't doing this as a job, he might enjoy it with me...lol

Basically I think it takes a lot of self esteem to be trashed sexually and humiliated. A person with low self esteem shouldn't be talked to this way if it hurts them. Just because a submissive and a dominant engage in this sexually and otherwise doesnt lessen the love and respect the dom feels, or the esteem of the submissive.

As someone who used to have this kink I can say it wasn't out of bad self image, but because it was taboo and erotic... it isn't taboo for me anymore, it lost its zest. On the other hand Ds never loses its zest... go figure!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to planomaid)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:15:58 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: planomaid

So, what drives a dominant to treat another person like shit and proclaim that they will cherish and love and desire that person?  Aren't you supposed to CARE and LOVE the person you are with? 


I think that a dominant who is searching has no particular requirement towards the individuals xhe is screening. That being said, if an individual is boorish and crass, xhe will likely find hirself attracting individuals whose level of self-respect permits them to be treated that way -- not the kind of individual I'd prefer to have attracted to me, but hey, what one puts out into the Universe, one gets back.

If an arrangement has been entered into, and that arrangement says that a given dominant individual is supposed to love and cherish hir servant, then yes, that is a part of the relationship. Here, we don't offer "love". We do care for our servants, but it takes time for us to come to love people -- we have to get to know them first... so we can't offer that right out of the gate.

quote:

I wonder how much of the desire to humilate and inflict emotional anguish on someone else comes from internal insecurities?  Or perhaps the dominant was fucked over by someone else in the past and they feel that they need to do the same to as many others to justify their own "strength"?


For some, personal insecurities and traumas may be the issue, but in this way of living, there -are- people who enjoy giving and getting humiliation and objectification as part of their way of interacting -- it just downright gets them going. If it doesn't get me going, I may not understand why it trips someone else's trigger, and I certainly won't go looking for it myself, or encourage others to try to either ask it of me or give it to me. HOWEVER, this does -not- mean that I would try to judge anyone who -did- enjoy those things, or question why they should want to do that. This is a HUGE group of people, with widely divergent tastes, in many diverse cultures. The BDSM "community", in fact, seems to me to be a sort of country of its very own, minus the land, populated with just about every variant available -- so there are bound to be people who like something I don't, and that's just fine.

quote:

I'm not oblivious to the sexualization of humiliation.  Actually, I'm sometimes appalled at how sooo much of the lifestyle has devolved into nothing but kinky sex for people.  It's not the ONLY reason to be dominant/submissive!
 

Again, for some people, that kinky sex MAY be the only reason to be dominant/submissive, and that's fine for those who want that. If you want something different, there are -plenty- of opportunities for different types of relationships, with different levels of committment. As an example, in our household, the servants are not kept at -all- for sex. Our enclave is dedicated to service -- either physical service or spiritual service. Some may like that, others think it stupid -- but it is what we do, and for those who are looking for that way of life, so be it. If someone is looking for a life where they are stripped and beaten daily with a barbed rubber flogger until they bleed, they'd be a poor fit for us -- but I'm sure that somewhere, there is a happy match where they'd belong.

quote:

Maybe its a personal preference, but I've never been turned on by someone (usually female) screaming at me to kneel before them like the piece of shit I am.  I happen to like the Southern traditions of a lady - and anyone who knows anything about the South would NEVER make the mistake of thinking that a woman acting lady like is weak!  No, Southern girls use their femininty as both a badge of honor and as a very effective instrument when interacting with men.  It's not a question of equality, its a question of how the two genders are taught to interact in polite society, especially in the public forum.


And this -is-, very much, a personal preference. I've spoken with men who aren't interested in the LEAST in genteel women like SR and myself -- they want a woman who will humiliate them, treat them like an animal, and, in some cases, treat them like a thing. I've met a few who want to spend the rest of their days as a toilet. I couldn't help them in their desires. It certainly isn't my choice of what to do or how to do it -- and I can't necessarily understand why they would want to be in that position... but they do, and what we feel is not -wrong-... it just -is-. Preferences are just that -- preferences... opinions... biased choices. Not right, or wrong... they just -are-.

quote:

So that gets me back to my original question.  Is there something to the dominant being insecure with their own self to humiliate submissives?  Or could it be that they are insecure in their role and fall back on what they read in books or see on the web to cover their own shortcomings?  And while there is certainly a portion who are neither and truly get off on humiliating others, I am hoping that they are a distinct minority.


Fortunately, the individuals that I've met who are involved in humiliation out of the pleasure of humiliating those who enjoy being humiliated are the MAJORITY of the actual active, living, breathing, face-to-face community. I would be -much- more concerned if the people who practiced this way of life were doing so out of some sense of insecurity or personal angst than if they just truly enjoyed the process.

Just because humiliation isn't your kink or my kink doesn't make it any more abberrent or wrong than anything else that people choose to CONSENTUALLY practice with one another.

ZWD

_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to planomaid)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:22:29 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		This is from the Presenter’s information at the Thunder webpage this year:
 
http://www.thunderinthemountains.com/bios/PhantomMasterFemCar.htm  
 
I am absolutely fascinated by this; scared to death of it, but curious about it.  I will attend their seminars later this month.  Reading the page may give you some insight?
 
I used to just not 'get' humiliation...even just the lite kind I can tolerate.  Now I love it...though discovering that was kind of embarrassing!  LOL

(in reply to enigmabrat)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:25:10 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline 		I have always found a whisper far more lethal than screaming at the top of My lungs. I also use the words Please and Thank you when I require a sub/cuck to do something. It doesn't mean I want it done any less sooner simply because I use those words. I often tell potentials that they shouldn't ever mistake My kindness for weakness. LOL I was simply raised with common manners.  

That being said, I enjoy "humiliating" My cuck. It does not in any way mean that I love them any less. Its simply something W/we both enjoy. It amuses Me to remind them that I'm going on a date with a Lover because he doesn't measure up anatomically. It puts him in his place and reminds him who wields the power. Technically I don't think of it as humiliating them in any way...but rather more that I'm speaking the truth. Facts are facts after all. If they happen to find it humiliating well that's not really something I have control over. However. if My cuckold enjoys being called nasty little names then why not use them when referring to him??

I don't insult or demean My cucks out of insecurity in any way. One actually could say that I do it out of great love and affection for them. It's what W/we both enjoy. I simply enjoy reminding them that I'm the FemDom, they're the cuck and that these are the specific reasons as to why I do what I do. Of course, cuckolding is a very different situation in the D/s lifestyle. The entire relationship is in some way based on humiliation if you wish to call it that. Best of luck in your quest for answers.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to planomaid)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:25:11 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

This is from the Presenter’s information at the Thunder webpage this year:
 
http://www.thunderinthemountains.com/bios/PhantomMasterFemCar.htm  
 
I am absolutely fascinated by this; scared to death of it, but curious about it.  I will attend their seminars later this month.  Reading the page may give you some insight?
 
I used to just not 'get' humiliation...even just the lite kind I can tolerate.  Now I love it...though discovering that was kind of embarrassing!  LOL



Humiliation with the right person can be liberating.

Used in a malicious way,it can be destructive-it's all in how it's applied.

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:26:47 PM   
WhiplashGirlChld


Posts: 78
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline 		You know...there is sometimes something a partner needs that you just can't bring yourself to do.  I really dislike humiliation and insults - given or received.  It depresses me, and I feel sorry for those who must engage in it on either side.  (Don't confuse that with my saying people "shouldn't".)  I don't get off on it, but its not really a stretch to see why some crave it.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:28:51 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		What is WIIWD??????????

_____________________________

Leather strap $85.00 on Master card
Wooden paddle $50.00 on Master card
ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

(in reply to WhiplashGirlChld)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:30:01 PM   
chibihentai


Posts: 3
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline 		Well, that's assuming that name-calling is something humiliating, and not something else. Sometimes,(using this as an example) being made to walk around naked can feel humiliating, and that doesn't necessarily involve vulgar words or nastiness.

Humiliation is in the eye of the beholder, and as long as no one is getting hurt and Aall agree to engage in it, i don't see why it could be considered unhealthy unless it becomes a serious emotional issue for either party... it's why communication is so important. The particular brand of humiliation that the OP is talking about isn't for Eeveryone... but it has its place for those who enjoy it.

Many blessings,
chibi-hentai

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:33:49 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
wiiwd = what it is we do.
(sometimes with a 't' or 'w' added for 'that' or 'which')
 
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to enigmabrat)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:35:16 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		And there are some guys who will run away screaming-from a Domme who would offer soft and kittenish romance.

To them, love is feeling a boot on thier necks,and a toe in thier crotch.

(in reply to chibihentai)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:35:54 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		:: smiles and HUGGSSSS dark:: thankkk youuuuuuu

_____________________________

Leather strap $85.00 on Master card
Wooden paddle $50.00 on Master card
ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:35:59 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
Humiliation with the right person can be liberating.

Used in a malicious way,it can be destructive-it's all in how it's applied.

Yes, I'm sure it could be.  Not unlike some of the stuff I mentioned in the PTSD thread.  While lite, fun teasing and embarrassing humiliation IS a lot of fun for me...some of the hard-core stuff would be difficult…at this time.  But, especially considering the stuff I’m learning of late, I can see the possibility of exploring this kind of play, should I find a strong, trustworthy partner.  I’m looking forward to the presentations by Phantom Master and FemCar.

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:37:41 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr
Humiliation with the right person can be liberating.

Used in a malicious way,it can be destructive-it's all in how it's applied.

Yes, I'm sure it could be.  Not unlike some of the stuff I mentioned in the PTSD thread.  While lite, fun teasing and embarrassing humiliation IS a lot of fun for me...some of the hard-core stuff would be difficult…at this time.  But, especially considering the stuff I’m learning of late, I can see the possibility of exploring this kind of play, should I find a strong, trustworthy partner.  I’m looking forward to the presentations by Phantom Master and FemCar.


Femcar in particular should be interesting to watch.

To say the least.

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Humiliation and the Insecure Dominant? - 7/4/2006 12:39:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		fast reply,

my problem is with the OP supposition that the dominant is cruel and loves this form of play and gets off on it, that is not always the case... sometimes it is the submissive that gets off on it and the dominant that does this sort of play as a "treat" for the sub. It isn't necessarily some kink either, sometimes it is done for a cathartic experience too.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 20
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