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Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 12:28:46 PM   
Phaness


Posts: 9
Joined: 11/4/2013
Status: offline 		Does anyone have any views on if a sub is insecure and has low self-esteem? Is that considered 'normal'? Is it 'workable' ? Can a 24/7 relationship survive with someone like that ?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 12:35:04 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phaness

Does anyone have any views on if a sub is insecure and has low self-esteem?
Insecurity and self esteem comes from within, so the answers for those issues cannot be solved by a relationship

quote:

Is that considered 'normal'?
Extreme insecurity? Normal, no. But, it's not uncommon to have some insecurity. It's all in how you deal with it.

quote:

Is it 'workable' ?
Depends, but the sub is the one that needs to work on it. The Dominant should be supportive.

quote:

Can a 24/7 relationship survive with someone like that ?
Maybe.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Phaness)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 12:45:22 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phaness

Does anyone have any views on if a sub is insecure and has low self-esteem? Is that considered 'normal'? Is it 'workable' ? Can a 24/7 relationship survive with someone like that ?

Can you give examples of what you're talking about?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Phaness)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 12:58:52 PM   
Phaness


Posts: 9
Joined: 11/4/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phaness

Does anyone have any views on if a sub is insecure and has low self-esteem? Is that considered 'normal'? Is it 'workable' ? Can a 24/7 relationship survive with someone like that ?

Can you give examples of what you're talking about?


Being needy / clingy... Feeling worthless if something goes wrong. Having fear of abandonment.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 1:41:38 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Well... are you hot? A lot of guys will put up with anything if she looks good in a thong.

People with all kinds of mental issues find partners for long-term relationships. So it isn't as though you can't find anybody. You might even find someone here. But I have to ask: mightn't it be better to be single and working on improving yourself, instead of being in a relationship and in constant fear of being abandoned?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Phaness)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 1:47:59 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Well... are you hot? A lot of guys will put up with anything if she looks good in a thong.


The OP is a male Dominant.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 1:59:01 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Well... are you hot? A lot of guys will put up with anything if she looks good in a thong.


The OP is a male Dominant.

Ha! Well, in that case, OP: do you love her? What are you getting out of this, and do you think it's enough? She isn't likely to wake up tomorrow and be magically cured.

As a word of advice: don't try to fix something with kink that can only be fixed with therapy -- and can only be fixed by the sub. It's a bit like a drug addiction. The sub has to want to change, has to work at it, and has to have both personal and professional support.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 2:32:35 PM   
Phaness


Posts: 9
Joined: 11/4/2013
Status: offline
Yes, I do love her, and she was everything I could ever imagine I would want. She left though. I guess I was just wondering if I should or could do something or forget about her.
And I was also wondering if, since she is/was a sub/slave, her mindset would be different than in a vanilla situation.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 2:39:36 PM   
HipPoindexter


Posts: 188
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phaness
And I was also wondering if, since she is/was a sub/slave, her mindset would be different than in a vanilla situation.



no.

being a "sub" is neither a legal status nor a personality type, not really. it's a sexual role with which some people, for various reasons, identify. people with all different kinds of personalities and abilities and tendencies identify as "submissive." without telling us a lot more about other aspects of her personality than you have any business doing (and also a lot more than i would ever want to know) just labeling her as a "submissive/slave/whatever" is not very instructive.

_____________________________

TheActionMan has joined the server

still ain't nothin' move but the money

(in reply to Phaness)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 2:52:28 PM   
Phaness


Posts: 9
Joined: 11/4/2013
Status: offline 		The problem is I am not sure where or wich sites she visits. But she was 24/7 full service, taking care of me, asking me for permission for everything. Catering to my every need. I'm not the one labelling her, she herself and her past did/do that. In words and actions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HipPoindexter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phaness
And I was also wondering if, since she is/was a sub/slave, her mindset would be different than in a vanilla situation.



no.

being a "sub" is neither a legal status nor a personality type, not really. it's a sexual role with which some people, for various reasons, identify. people with all different kinds of personalities and abilities and tendencies identify as "submissive." without telling us a lot more about other aspects of her personality than you have any business doing (and also a lot more than i would ever want to know) just labeling her as a "submissive/slave/whatever" is not very instructive.


(in reply to HipPoindexter)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 2:56:55 PM   
HipPoindexter


Posts: 188
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline 		right. this still doesn't say as much about her (beyond what she finds sexually gratifying) as you seem to think it does.

there is a limit to how much i care about someone else's problems for free. but if you want advice from internet strangers then the right advice to someone who has been left behind by a partner for whatever reason is almost always "move on."
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phaness

The problem is I am not sure where or wich sites she visits. But she was 24/7 full service, taking care of me, asking me for permission for everything. Catering to my every need. I'm not the one labelling her, she herself and her past did/do that. In words and actions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HipPoindexter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phaness
And I was also wondering if, since she is/was a sub/slave, her mindset would be different than in a vanilla situation.



no.

being a "sub" is neither a legal status nor a personality type, not really. it's a sexual role with which some people, for various reasons, identify. people with all different kinds of personalities and abilities and tendencies identify as "submissive." without telling us a lot more about other aspects of her personality than you have any business doing (and also a lot more than i would ever want to know) just labeling her as a "submissive/slave/whatever" is not very instructive.





_____________________________

TheActionMan has joined the server

still ain't nothin' move but the money

(in reply to Phaness)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 2:58:43 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phaness

The problem is I am not sure where or wich sites she visits. But she was 24/7 full service, taking care of me, asking me for permission for everything. Catering to my every need. I'm not the one labelling her, she herself and her past did/do that. In words and actions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HipPoindexter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phaness
And I was also wondering if, since she is/was a sub/slave, her mindset would be different than in a vanilla situation.





no.

being a "sub" is neither a legal status nor a personality type, not really. it's a sexual role with which some people, for various reasons, identify. people with all different kinds of personalities and abilities and tendencies identify as "submissive." without telling us a lot more about other aspects of her personality than you have any business doing (and also a lot more than i would ever want to know) just labeling her as a "submissive/slave/whatever" is not very instructive.




Regardless, Poindexter is correct. Being submissive is a sexual orientation. It would be like asking "Can lesbians be insecure?"

The answer is that neuroses aren't based on orientation. Although, some people use the orientation as a crutch for the neurosis.

ie: insecurity and co-dependency tend to go hand in hand, so acting as the submissive hides those issues and gives the person a reason to not address those issues.

But beyond anything else, what you need to understand is that you cannot fix her. Only she can do that.


< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 12/27/2013 2:59:23 PM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Phaness)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 3:05:23 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

the right advice to someone who has been left behind by a partner for whatever reason is almost always "move on."


Yes, indeed.

(in reply to HipPoindexter)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 3:08:57 PM   
Phaness


Posts: 9
Joined: 11/4/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phaness

The problem is I am not sure where or wich sites she visits. But she was 24/7 full service, taking care of me, asking me for permission for everything. Catering to my every need. I'm not the one labelling her, she herself and her past did/do that. In words and actions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HipPoindexter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phaness
And I was also wondering if, since she is/was a sub/slave, her mindset would be different than in a vanilla situation.



no.

being a "sub" is neither a legal status nor a personality type, not really. it's a sexual role with which some people, for various reasons, identify. people with all different kinds of personalities and abilities and tendencies identify as "submissive." without telling us a lot more about other aspects of her personality than you have any business doing (and also a lot more than i would ever want to know) just labeling her as a "submissive/slave/whatever" is not very instructive.




Regardless, Poindexter is correct. Being submissive is a sexual orientation. It would be like asking "Can lesbians be insecure?"

The answer is that neuroses aren't based on orientation. Although, some people use the orientation as a crutch for the neurosis.

ie: insecurity and co-dependency tend to go hand in hand, so acting as the submissive hides those issues and gives the person a reason to not address those issues.

But beyond anything else, what you need to understand is that you cannot fix her. Only she can do that.



This is actually what I was looking for. And I thank you kindly for that.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 3:17:59 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Phaness - I had already met my man when I found this book, but I was able to review past relationships and see how they were doomed. I am now with a Secure type and can be my normal Secure self. However, when I was with Avoidant types, I became Insecure.

Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment and How It Can Help You Find - and Keep - Love

We rely on science to tell us everything from what to eat to when and how long to exercise, but what about relationships? Is there a scientific explanation for why some people seem to navigate relationships effortlessly, while others struggle? According to psychiatrist and neuroscientist Dr. Amir Levine and Rachel Heller, the answer is a resounding "yes."

In Attached, Levine and Heller reveal how an understanding of adult attachment-the most advanced relationship science in existence today-can help us find and sustain love. Pioneered by psychologist John Bowlby in the 1950s, the field of attachment posits that each of us behaves in relationships in one of three distinct ways:

Anxious people are often preoccupied with their relationships and tend to worry about their partner's ability to love them back

Avoidant people equate intimacy with a loss of independence and constantly try to minimize closeness.

Secure people feel comfortable with intimacy and are usually warm and loving.

In this book Levine and Heller guide readers in determining what attachment style they and their mate (or potential mate) follow, offering a road map for building stronger, more fulfilling connections with the people they love.

(in reply to Phaness)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 4:12:08 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		"workable" if you can eventually install a new system of self image i. e. she sees herself through your eyes and sets her self worth based on your value of her.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to Phaness)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 4:17:01 PM   
HipPoindexter


Posts: 188
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

"workable" if you can eventually install a new system of self image i. e. she sees herself through your eyes and sets her self worth based on your value of her.


that sounds like so much work!

_____________________________

TheActionMan has joined the server

still ain't nothin' move but the money

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 4:48:07 PM   
Phaness


Posts: 9
Joined: 11/4/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Phaness - I had already met my man when I found this book, but I was able to review past relationships and see how they were doomed. I am now with a Secure type and can be my normal Secure self. However, when I was with Avoidant types, I became Insecure.

Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment and How It Can Help You Find - and Keep - Love

We rely on science to tell us everything from what to eat to when and how long to exercise, but what about relationships? Is there a scientific explanation for why some people seem to navigate relationships effortlessly, while others struggle? According to psychiatrist and neuroscientist Dr. Amir Levine and Rachel Heller, the answer is a resounding "yes."

In Attached, Levine and Heller reveal how an understanding of adult attachment-the most advanced relationship science in existence today-can help us find and sustain love. Pioneered by psychologist John Bowlby in the 1950s, the field of attachment posits that each of us behaves in relationships in one of three distinct ways:

Anxious people are often preoccupied with their relationships and tend to worry about their partner's ability to love them back

Avoidant people equate intimacy with a loss of independence and constantly try to minimize closeness.

Secure people feel comfortable with intimacy and are usually warm and loving.

In this book Levine and Heller guide readers in determining what attachment style they and their mate (or potential mate) follow, offering a road map for building stronger, more fulfilling connections with the people they love.



Hi,

Thank you for pointing out the book. I already knew about it and read articles on it. This wasn't us though. She knew I was secure. She was already insecure before we even met or started talking relationship. A 1000 'what if' questions I had to answer before we ended up together. I already knew of many occassions where she felt worthless because something didn't go as planned (even before we met).

She managed to start feeling unwanted and unloved by sheer incidents. Silly incidents that I can't give examples of, again because I don't know wich sites she visits. Me being a Dominant and actually wanting and liking that, and it resembling a D/s relationship only became apparent after she left. But I knew her history regarding BDSM. Her kneeling before me on the floor with a straight back, or asking permission for everything she wanted to do are just the more apparent examples.

I guess what I truly wanted to know is if she could be attracted to that just to not deal with her issues. And if there are 'normal' subs, since now I finally know what I want and what was lacking in my relationships.


(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 4:54:03 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HipPoindexter
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
"workable" if you can eventually install a new system of self image i. e. she sees herself through your eyes and sets her self worth based on your value of her.


that sounds like so much work!

When my slave(s) say something self judgmental, they get reamed for it . . . "It is not your job to judge, that's my job. Do you want my job? Do you feel I do not perform my duties properly and think you have to take over? You are as good as I say you are and you are as valuable as I deem you to be! No more, no less. Now say it, you are a __<insert your value here>___ slave."

Anyway, that's a good start and there's more. Correct their thinking, make them act out the corrections saying it, with education and perspective adjustment, they will eventually learn until they experience a paradigm shift and truly think differently. They will begin to self correct and eventual alter their way of thinking. It's not as simple as the one routine explained above but that is a good start.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to HipPoindexter)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Insecure sub - 12/27/2013 5:51:14 PM   
LeatherBentOne51


Posts: 89
Joined: 12/28/2012
Status: offline 		OP stick around. OSideGirl has a wonderful habit of doing that.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 20
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