RE: Israel still torturing children

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EdBowie -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/15/2014 5:46:24 PM)
It's not a dream, it's the whole point. quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 FR Fuck the Palestinians, they deserve everything that's ever been done to them. That's just simply not true. Governments do stupid crazy shit...ours...theirs...we pay people in Iowa NOT to grow corn, we pay people in Bahrain to hate people we don't like, we pay people in China to fuck over their own government and we pay people in NORTH fucking Korea to SUPPORT North Korea and we have agencies that thrill to kill North Koreans. It's fucked up. The Palestinians have mothers and fathers, daughters and sons. Uncles and aunts, brothers and sisters. And they think we're fucked up. We think they're fucked up. I just wish we could get everyone in the same gawdamned room and have a fucking hot dog and some raw lamb (or whatever the fuck they eat) and stop throwing daggers, money and hatred. (A man can dream).

EdBowie -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/15/2014 6:00:26 PM)
You can't respond, which is why you had to change the subject back to calling the links to the proof of Holocaust that I posted 'absurd' before running away again. Back on the larger topic that you are also refusing to address... one more time... people here are calling the deaths and suffering in Gaza 'atrocities', and 'horrible', etc. That's a matter of record. It's right there in black and white. This has been pointed out to you over and over. Your response is to keep repeating the false claim that the same posters are applauding the deaths. The question you were asked is, is why don't you use the rational approach of dealing accurately with all of the facts in the current situation. How exactly is your approach going to solve anything? Your refusal to answer makes it entirely reasonable to lump your words in with everyone else who speaks the same way. quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: You ran away when I asked you this question last time. I didn't run away. I dismissed your claim as drivel "so absurd and laughable, it's not even worthy of derision". See post # 89. quote: A rational approach to putting an end to these problems would be to honestly examine all the factors... why won't you? Your explanation - that the whole conflict is a Muslim Brotherhood plot to kill every Jew on the planet - didn't even mention the Palestinians. Are the Palestinians not a factor in the equation? If so, and they obviously are, why does your explanation fail to mention them? Is this what you mean when you talk about "honestly examin[ing] all the factors"? Now do you see why I dismiss your explanation as drivel? Unless you can come up with something more substantial than the utter crap you have served up to date, don't expect me to respond.

Politesub53 -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/16/2014 2:15:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EdBowie The word I used for what the Israeli government is doing was 'atrocities'. But don't let that slow you down. I havent posted anything on this topic quote: And, good thing I've never called anyone a denier ( or a racist, or a jew hater) , I've made sure to identify the propaganda and the false statements themselves as matching the rhetoric used by deniers and to cite the source as David Irving. But, of course you already knew that when you came back with more fabricated personal attacks against the poster, instead of honestly addressing what I actually said... right? Ah, so your thinly disguised slurs are rhetoric. quote: And as far as you being 'happy' to post links proving that my multiple links about the Holocaust, Muslim Brotherhood, etc. are lies... we're still waiting. Nor did I post on this shit. quote: Just like we are still waiting for those links proving that I stopped posting one day, and my 'sock puppet' started posting the very next day... ( or vice versa). Yep, still waiting for all your happy links. Oh dear, a clumsy attempt to make me get myself banned.

tweakabelle -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/16/2014 6:08:12 PM)
Returning to the subject of this thread, Israeli abuse of Palestinian children: A report published in "The Austrailian" part of the staunchly pro-Israel Murdoch group, details the 'justice' meted out to Palestinian kids by the Israeli judicial system: Stone Cold Justice, * http://citizenactionmonitor.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/palestinian-children-emerge-scared-and-broken-from-israeli-military-justice-system/ I wonder how many of the children terrorised by the IDF will end up joining Hamas or another of the militant groups when they grow up? I can't think of a more efficient method of producing 'terrorists' than to abuse kids in a manner similar to the IDF's abuse of kids growing up on the West Bank. Which begs the question: Who are the real 'terrorists' here? Are they the Palestinian kids who are subjected to IDF torture? Or is it the IDF, which rules the lives of Palestinians so brutally? A hostile foreign military occupation such as exists currently in Occupied Palestine is the most visible form of terrorism - the civilian population is ruled at the point of a gun, rule by terror by any standard. State sponsored terrorism - such as the IDF's - is surely as bad if not worse than the terrorism of extremist non-State groups. States, especially States that promote themselves as democratic states espousing the features of liberal democracies, should really know and behave better. Do Israeli policies create the very terrorists they are ostensibly designed to suppress? We hear a lot about Israel's 'security needs'. Palestinians too have security needs, primarily to be protected from the colonist/settler thugs and the IDF. * As the original source is behind a paywall, I have cited a complete transcript of the original report posted on another site.

Phydeaux -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/16/2014 7:27:44 PM)
So I will say, once again: I am sure there are things I don't approve of. But your quote didn't really have anything to do with atrocities, tweak. Death is an atrocity. Rape, mutilation. Beating. On the scale of horrible in this world, being jailed for two months - while not pleasant - its not in the same category. And again: If Palestinians want to stop this - the path forward is pretty clear. Stop suicide bombers. Stop child suicide bombers. Stop calling for the death of Israel. Its not like your techniques or your leaders are working. Try the approach Mahatma Ghandi advocated. Non violence. Work for more than peace.

Phydeaux -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/16/2014 7:36:22 PM)
Well, one of us is desperate. It isn't me. I've already told you- I regret any deaths. I find the 1500 number to be ridiculous, since 70% of the deaths come during a war. And 1500 casualties in a war is nothing. But to pretend that there aren't thousands of Israeli casualties is silly. Do the Palestinians suffer casualties disproportionately - absolutely. Which means the policy of armed confrontation is ridiculous. Perhaps its time for the Palestinians to try a different tact. quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Clutching at straws, Phydeaux? The poor girl ended up being shot 17 times according to doctors. Care to explain those 17 shots away? The tape proves the sequence of events. Those who recanted their evidence were IDF members. The possibility that these IDF soldiers came under pressure from their IDF superiors to change their stories has not been eliminated. And when you've finishing spinning all that away, care to explain the other c1500 dead Palestinian children. It has been claimed that some were suicide bombers but if that claim is valid, at best it can account for <2% of those deaths. It has also been claimed that children were used as human shields when the IDF killed them. Yet not a single actual case of that occurring has been advanced. Until an actual case is advanced, this explanation is pure speculation. The number of dead Palestinian children are such that one must consider systematic targeting as an explanation. We know that Israel tortures children. We know that Israel uses ethnic cleansing to drive Palestinians from their ancestral lands. We know that Israel uses apartheid, which necessarily involves regarding Palestinians as sub-human at one level or another. It's not a big step from that to actually targeting the kids to intimidate a people that refuses to roll over and disappear as the Israelis want them to. When it comes to brutality, there is no way of separating the two sides in the conflict. Both are up to their necks in the blood of innocents. Both sides have long histories of carrying out atrocities on the other. Stop sanitising the IDF's murders and pretending that Israel pays anything more than lip service to civilised values

tweakabelle -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/17/2014 7:59:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux So I will say, once again: I am sure there are things I don't approve of. But your quote didn't really have anything to do with atrocities, tweak. Death is an atrocity. Rape, mutilation. Beating. On the scale of horrible in this world, being jailed for two months - while not pleasant - its not in the same category. The point I was making is that the systematic abuse of Palestinian children (which includes, among other things, abductions, torture, and the killings I have listed above) is one method that Israel employs to terrorise Palestinians. Other elements that terrorise Palestinians include ethnic cleansing and apartheid, all of it designed to make life hell for the indigenous population so that they leave the region and Israel achieves ownership of a West Bank without its residents. quote: And again: If Palestinians want to stop this - the path forward is pretty clear. Stop suicide bombers. Stop child suicide bombers. Stop calling for the death of Israel. Again the un-reality of your demands is striking. The Palestinians recognised Israel in 1988, a recognition repeated numerous times since. ,Suicide bombings ceased almost a decade ago. But pretending suicide bombings are still current is a convenient method of tarring the Palestinians with the 'terrorist' label Both sides practice terrorism. At the moment, the most active terrorists in the West Bank region are the colonist/settlers and the IDF, which protects the colonists while they attack Palestinian civilians and villages, often joining in. For Israel to demand Palestinians refrain from terrorism while the Israelis continue to practice overt ethnic cleansing and other terrorist tactics detailed above is naked hypocrisy, not the basis for a just and lasting peace. If there is to be a just and lasting peace, both sides have to cease their terrorism. ETA: "But pretending suicide bombings are still current is a convenient method" replaced "But it's a convenient method" in order to make the meaning clearer.

Phydeaux -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/17/2014 8:25:55 PM)
And just as I've told you - fatah (you know - conquest) and hamas - neither one of them support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. Scroll back. I gave you quotes from the leadership as late as november of this year. Your beliefs are idiotic if you think Israel is going to unilaterally let itself be eliminated - which is what the right of return is. Fundamentally - if the palestinians were peaceful - it would be economically waste ful for the israelis to put up walls, and checkpoints. And to have snipers. If the palestinians did peaceful non violence - then creditable reports would occur in all press- and you would have a lot more effective results than what you're doing now. Why do you suppose the jordanians, and the egyptians keep the "palestinians" in refugee camps? Because they are useful there. It gives a reason to hate israel; it raises money, especially muslim charitable money. Manpower for suicide bombers. Instead of being militant for the right to go to Israel - why don't you be militant for the right to get out of those camps where they have lived for dozens of years - and go to arab states? Why is that tweak? quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux So I will say, once again: I am sure there are things I don't approve of. But your quote didn't really have anything to do with atrocities, tweak. Death is an atrocity. Rape, mutilation. Beating. On the scale of horrible in this world, being jailed for two months - while not pleasant - its not in the same category. The point I was making is that the systematic abuse of Palestinian children (which includes, among other things, abductions, torture, and the killings I have listed above) is one method that Israel employs to terrorise Palestinians. Other elements that terrorise Palestinians include ethnic cleansing and apartheid, all of it designed to make life hell for the indigenous population so that they leave the region and Israel achieves ownership of a West Bank without its residents. quote: And again: If Palestinians want to stop this - the path forward is pretty clear. Stop suicide bombers. Stop child suicide bombers. Stop calling for the death of Israel. Again the un-reality of your demands is striking. The Palestinians recognised Israel in 1988, a recognition repeated numerous times since. ,Suicide bombings ceased almost a decade ago. But it's a convenient method of tarring the Palestinians with the 'terrorist' label Both sides practice terrorism. At the moment, the most active terrorists in the est Bank region are the colonist/settlers and the IDF, which protects the colonists while they attack Palestinian civilians and villages, often joining in. For Israel to demand Palestinians refrain from terrorism while the Israelis continue to practice overt ethnic cleansing and other terrorist tactics detailed above is naked hypocrisy, not the basis for a just and lasting peace. If there is to be a just and lasting peace, both sides have to cease their terrorism.

Phydeaux -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/17/2014 8:32:08 PM)
It is factually untrue that the Israelis systematically abuse Palestinian children. Both of your scources have been discredited - but even if true two data points are nowhere near support for that statement. As I said earlier - I think the Israelis do a pretty fair job of not killing people, even under provocation. Has there ever been a record of palestinians using rubber bullets? Regarding the ethnic cleansing yada yada yada. Ruanda was ethnic cleansing. Armenia was ethnic cleansing. Serbia. Darfur. If the Israeli's intended ethnic cleansing - the palestinians would be dead. It is factually untrue that suicide bombings ceased a decade ago.

Politesub53 -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/18/2014 2:43:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux It is factually untrue that the Israelis systematically abuse Palestinian children. Both of your scources have been discredited - but even if true two data points are nowhere near support for that statement. As I said earlier - I think the Israelis do a pretty fair job of not killing people, even under provocation. Has there ever been a record of palestinians using rubber bullets? Regarding the ethnic cleansing yada yada yada. Ruanda was ethnic cleansing. Armenia was ethnic cleansing. Serbia. Darfur. If the Israeli's intended ethnic cleansing - the palestinians would be dead. It is factually untrue that suicide bombings ceased a decade ago. Ethnic cleansing doesnt mean dead...... You should look it up sometime.

absaeulm -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/19/2014 1:29:25 PM)
A child should NEVER BE PUNISHED FOR HIS PARENTS BELIFES STATUS ETC.they should be able to CHOOSE! -------------_--------------------------- Without choice..we fail to be human

MrBukani -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/19/2014 10:56:34 PM)
The Islamic take Most people – indeed most Muslims – are not aware that Islam banned the use of child combatants since the time of the prophet, and that these age limits have remained a part of Islamic law ever since. The evidence for age limits includes rigorously authenticated reports that the prophet did not allow children to participate in armed conflicts (jihad). Basic Islamic law primers give a list of conditions that an individual must meet in order to be obligated to participate in armed conflicts. These conditions include that the individual be a Muslim, mature, of sound mind, male, healthy and able to fight. Maturity and ability are the conditions most relevant to the issue of child combatants. The reports where the prophet turned away children from participating in armed conflicts are part of the evidence for maturity being a requirement. Scholars explain that maturity is one of the conditions for moral and legal responsibility. Only a Muslim who is mature and of sound mind is expected to fulfill legal obligations – obligations such as prayer, fasting, the payment of obligatory alms, performing the hajj pilgrimage or participating in jihad. http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/news/middle-east/2014/01/17/Islam-s-ban-on-child-combatants-1703.html

thishereboi -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/20/2014 9:01:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux So I will say, once again: I am sure there are things I don't approve of. But your quote didn't really have anything to do with atrocities, tweak. Death is an atrocity. Rape, mutilation. Beating. On the scale of horrible in this world, being jailed for two months - while not pleasant - its not in the same category. The point I was making is that the systematic abuse of Palestinian children (which includes, among other things, abductions, torture, and the killings I have listed above) is one method that Israel employs to terrorise Palestinians. Other elements that terrorise Palestinians include ethnic cleansing and apartheid, all of it designed to make life hell for the indigenous population so that they leave the region and Israel achieves ownership of a West Bank without its residents. quote: And again: If Palestinians want to stop this - the path forward is pretty clear. Stop suicide bombers. Stop child suicide bombers. Stop calling for the death of Israel. Again the un-reality of your demands is striking. The Palestinians recognised Israel in 1988, a recognition repeated numerous times since. ,Suicide bombings ceased almost a decade ago. But pretending suicide bombings are still current is a convenient method of tarring the Palestinians with the 'terrorist' label Both sides practice terrorism. At the moment, the most active terrorists in the West Bank region are the colonist/settlers and the IDF, which protects the colonists while they attack Palestinian civilians and villages, often joining in. For Israel to demand Palestinians refrain from terrorism while the Israelis continue to practice overt ethnic cleansing and other terrorist tactics detailed above is naked hypocrisy, not the basis for a just and lasting peace. If there is to be a just and lasting peace, both sides have to cease their terrorism. ETA: "But pretending suicide bombings are still current is a convenient method" replaced "But it's a convenient method" in order to make the meaning clearer. The last suicide bombing that was tied to palestine that I can think of was in 2008 so you have a few more years before you can claim it was almost a decade ago. The last suicide bombing was last monday I think. Now I agree that it is wrong to blame palestine for mondays bombing because it was a different group I doubt most people would see the difference. If the palestines really have figured out how terrible it is why are they not speaking out against the ones still doing it. You also have to take into consideration articles like this one http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/11/large-majority-of-palestinians-say-they-support-suicide-bombings/ now it could be that the Blaze is a rag and no one will pay any attention to what it says but then again a lot of people may read it and think it's the truth. Perhaps if you were not so quick to blame israel and give a blanket pass to the palestines you would find people more willing to discuss this but with your attitude as it is, I don't see the point.

tweakabelle -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/20/2014 10:41:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi The last suicide bombing that was tied to palestine that I can think of was in 2008 so you have a few more years before you can claim it was almost a decade ago. The last suicide bombing was last monday I think. Now I agree that it is wrong to blame palestine for mondays bombing because it was a different group I doubt most people would see the difference. If the palestines really have figured out how terrible it is why are they not speaking out against the ones still doing it. You also have to take into consideration articles like this one http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/11/large-majority-of-palestinians-say-they-support-suicide-bombings/ now it could be that the Blaze is a rag and no one will pay any attention to what it says but then again a lot of people may read it and think it's the truth. Perhaps if you were not so quick to blame israel and give a blanket pass to the palestines you would find people more willing to discuss this but with your attitude as it is, I don't see the point. The confected nature of your outrage is chillingly obvious. Not a word about the hundreds of dead Palestinian children at the hands of those life-affirming Israelis you love so much, yet all Palestinians are judged by the actions of a few maniacs. The crocodile tears do not blind anyone to the double standards and partisan bias evident in this post. Hypocrisy at its zenith.

Phydeaux -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/20/2014 1:23:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi The last suicide bombing that was tied to palestine that I can think of was in 2008 so you have a few more years before you can claim it was almost a decade ago. The last suicide bombing was last monday I think. Now I agree that it is wrong to blame palestine for mondays bombing because it was a different group I doubt most people would see the difference. If the palestines really have figured out how terrible it is why are they not speaking out against the ones still doing it. You also have to take into consideration articles like this one http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/11/large-majority-of-palestinians-say-they-support-suicide-bombings/ now it could be that the Blaze is a rag and no one will pay any attention to what it says but then again a lot of people may read it and think it's the truth. Perhaps if you were not so quick to blame israel and give a blanket pass to the palestines you would find people more willing to discuss this but with your attitude as it is, I don't see the point. The confected nature of your outrage is chillingly obvious. Not a word about the hundreds of dead Palestinian children at the hands of those life-affirming Israelis you love so much, yet all Palestinians are judged by the actions of a few maniacs. The crocodile tears do not blind anyone to the double standards and partisan bias evident in this post. Hypocrisy at its zenith. Suicide bombers were never disavowed by the palestinians. The Israelis built a fence which made it ineffective. So the bombs stopped. Don't make a virtue out of a necessity tweak. It just means your posts are lies.

Politesub53 -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/20/2014 2:57:41 PM)
A fence ? Dont you mean an illegal wall condemned by the UN and the ICJ in the Hague ? "The International Court of Justice has said the barrier Israel is building to seal off the West Bank violates international law because it infringes on the rights of Palestinians. In an advisory opinion issued Friday in The Hague, the U.N. court urged the Israelis to remove it from occupied land. The nonbinding opinion also found that Israel was obligated to return confiscated land or make reparations for any destruction or damage to homes, businesses and farms caused by the barrier's construction."

EdBowie -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/20/2014 3:47:56 PM)
Why do you keep repeating this 'not a word' crap in the face of post after post calling the deaths of Palestinian children 'horrible'? You've been asked repeatedly to explain how that approach is supposed to help bring an end to the violence, and you've smirked about refusing to answer that question. That makes it entirely legitimate to fill it in for you, and one available answer is that you aren't at all invested in seeing the violence end. quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi The last suicide bombing that was tied to palestine that I can think of was in 2008 so you have a few more years before you can claim it was almost a decade ago. The last suicide bombing was last monday I think. Now I agree that it is wrong to blame palestine for mondays bombing because it was a different group I doubt most people would see the difference. If the palestines really have figured out how terrible it is why are they not speaking out against the ones still doing it. You also have to take into consideration articles like this one http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/11/large-majority-of-palestinians-say-they-support-suicide-bombings/ now it could be that the Blaze is a rag and no one will pay any attention to what it says but then again a lot of people may read it and think it's the truth. Perhaps if you were not so quick to blame israel and give a blanket pass to the palestines you would find people more willing to discuss this but with your attitude as it is, I don't see the point. The confected nature of your outrage is chillingly obvious. Not a word about the hundreds of dead Palestinian children at the hands of those life-affirming Israelis you love so much, yet all Palestinians are judged by the actions of a few maniacs. The crocodile tears do not blind anyone to the double standards and partisan bias evident in this post. Hypocrisy at its zenith.

Phydeaux -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/20/2014 8:03:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 A fence ? Dont you mean an illegal wall condemned by the UN and the ICJ in the Hague ? "The International Court of Justice has said the barrier Israel is building to seal off the West Bank violates international law because it infringes on the rights of Palestinians. In an advisory opinion issued Friday in The Hague, the U.N. court urged the Israelis to remove it from occupied land. The nonbinding opinion also found that Israel was obligated to return confiscated land or make reparations for any destruction or damage to homes, businesses and farms caused by the barrier's construction." I guess you missed the "non-binding" bit. Which means its just a bunch of blow-whole europeans offering their inconsequential opinion. Really? Who cares what the fuck the netherlands think. When you europeans can put your big boy pants on and do well - anything - maybe you'll have the right to say something. In the meantime, I get that the UN doesn't really care that the fence has essentially eliminated israeli casualties by suicide bomber. And I wad it up and wipe my ass with it. Cause self defense is a fundamental right too.

thishereboi -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/21/2014 5:23:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi The last suicide bombing that was tied to palestine that I can think of was in 2008 so you have a few more years before you can claim it was almost a decade ago. The last suicide bombing was last monday I think. Now I agree that it is wrong to blame palestine for mondays bombing because it was a different group I doubt most people would see the difference. If the palestines really have figured out how terrible it is why are they not speaking out against the ones still doing it. You also have to take into consideration articles like this one http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/11/large-majority-of-palestinians-say-they-support-suicide-bombings/ now it could be that the Blaze is a rag and no one will pay any attention to what it says but then again a lot of people may read it and think it's the truth. Perhaps if you were not so quick to blame israel and give a blanket pass to the palestines you would find people more willing to discuss this but with your attitude as it is, I don't see the point. The confected nature of your outrage is chillingly obvious. Not a word about the hundreds of dead Palestinian children at the hands of those life-affirming Israelis you love so much, yet all Palestinians are judged by the actions of a few maniacs. The crocodile tears do not blind anyone to the double standards and partisan bias evident in this post. Hypocrisy at its zenith. We were discussing your lie that suicide bombings stopped a decade ago but I can understand why you would want to ignore that. And just for the record, yes I think it is terrible that any kids on either side are being killed over there. Both sides have done some terrible things but you only seem to see the one side as evil and keep coming up with excuses for the other. But you are right about one thing. The double standards are pretty clear to see. Just not the way you are implying.

Politesub53 -> RE: Israel still torturing children (1/21/2014 6:30:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 A fence ? Dont you mean an illegal wall condemned by the UN and the ICJ in the Hague ? "The International Court of Justice has said the barrier Israel is building to seal off the West Bank violates international law because it infringes on the rights of Palestinians. In an advisory opinion issued Friday in The Hague, the U.N. court urged the Israelis to remove it from occupied land. The nonbinding opinion also found that Israel was obligated to return confiscated land or make reparations for any destruction or damage to homes, businesses and farms caused by the barrier's construction." I guess you missed the "non-binding" bit. Which means its just a bunch of blow-whole europeans offering their inconsequential opinion. Really? Who cares what the fuck the netherlands think. When you europeans can put your big boy pants on and do well - anything - maybe you'll have the right to say something. In the meantime, I get that the UN doesn't really care that the fence has essentially eliminated israeli casualties by suicide bomber. And I wad it up and wipe my ass with it. Cause self defense is a fundamental right too. Laughable bullshit that you think the ICJ is "Just a bunch of blow-whole Europeans." Care to guess why its also known as the World Court ? Its a shame your bike ride around the Ruhr failed to teach you anything. Anyhow, thanks for clarifying that you wipe your arse with actual facts.

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