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Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/4/2006 11:05:24 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Soooo, a post leads to a thought and one thought leads to another and here I am again asking questions of the masses. ::chuckles::

The eternal 'why' question for those of a submissive bent. I 'get' why a dominant would enjoy being a dominant and I get that sort of hard-wiring. I get Topping, sadism, masochism and bottoming. I get S/m switching.

Why a submissive though - why slave?  Answers: great sex, like to serve, enjoy power exchange etc.. and a common answer is.. I'm hard-wired that way. It's who I am.

So, I actually get that part as well, because that would be my own answer. I'm hard-wired that way. But.. 'why' am I hard-wired that way? A combination of nature and nurture seems to be the closest I can come to an answer and yet it just seems to be so wanting as an answer. Hell, I've been doing this for 24 years (and a day!) and I still ask that 'why' hard-wired question of myself. I accept that I am the way I am, but I also accept that it's a bit odd.  "Most" people don't accept being driven in their lives by others.. not only accept it, but crave it, desire it and know that without it they aren't living their full potential. I feel so.. hmm.. conflicted sometimes regarding the whole thing. Eh.. conflicted isn't the right word.

Gads, what a mess of a post.

I wanted someone to have the ability to 'take' from me and use it.. but without them changing 'me'. I wanted someone who I would trust with my life and my sanity. I wanted someone who had so much integrity, that there would never be a need for me to be limited in what I was willing to do for them and what they could do, at their whim, to me. I wanted someone who would recognize exactly how much power they would have over me and to use that power wisely and in such as a way as to ensure our mutual growth as people.

Ok, I got what I wanted.. but.. why did I want it? And now that I have it (and have had it for 10+ years!) .. why do I want to know.. why?

Listen up, ladies.. this is what menopause is doing to me.. and it could happen to you, too! ::laughs::

OK, actual question time: For those of you who would also answer "hard-wired" when asked why you are a submissive/slave .. why are you hard-wired that way?

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/4/2006 11:16:37 PM   
sleazybutterfly


Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline 		I have no idea.
 
I never really thought about it.. to me it's no different than someone being gay... I was just born this way.  It wasn't something I set out to be...nor something that I had forced upon me.  I don't think anyone could have been more surprised than I was, that I actually enjoyed it. 
 
I feel the need to give myself over..not just in a sexual way..but in an emotional way.  I want to take care of my partner, to see to their needs, their wants, to make them happy.  I want to be free to know that I can express who I am without fear of being thought "strange" or "twisted". 
 
There is the special time when I crawl to my Sir and put my head on his lap.. or cuddle on the couch and lay against him as he strokes me.. it's that feeling of belonging to someone.. it's deep.. it's strong..and there is nothing like it. 
 
This is not something I can walk away from.. it is in me.. a part of me...and just like my eyes being brown.. it is a feature that cannot be denied.
 
I don't know if I am a sub or a slave.. I am just me.  I want to serve without question, yet speak my mind when I want.  I want to be owned..yet loved.  I don't think I can fit into a category though.. so I have given up trying.  I am just who I am...and that core will never change.
 
         Not sure if that answers it or not..lol..but I tried..it's late..and I am way too sleepy to make sense.
 
                              Respectfully, andrea

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/4/2006 11:46:26 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		Bita,

i saw documentaries about hard-wiring of lesbians, and there is a proposed theory that mothers homones wash the fetus with changing balances of testosterone and estrogen, and that mothers who undergo much stress during ...i think the 4th month.. had more male babies, or had female babies with a preponderance of lesbian leaning.   The stress triggering testosterone is often cited as one explaination for why so many males are born after a period of war, when it could be assumed mothers are stressing over the wellbeing of their men or their personal security.  (Even if the fathers were not away, but home fathering the babies)

i have theories i've bounced with from there, i think my bi hard-wire is related to that hormonal flooding, as my mother was undergoing constant separations from my dad because he was busy being an asshole.  (ok, this is not a tirade against daddy, promise!)   But they had relationship struggles during her whole pregnancy with me, and he'd move out, then come back, and she was constantly stressing over bills and next meal, fighting, then making up, etc.

Would that kind of stress also cause her soothing hormones to kick in when he came home and was good to her?  Her reaction to his returning protection might be related to my chemical need to respond to the approval of a strong male.  What she experienced as a powerlessness and unwilling roller-coaster, i may feel as a requirement for life? 

If that theory holds any water, i'm curious how it might work the same with a male submissive, or a gay male, or a Domme...  i can only see the possible application for me, a bi- assertive female who is chemically more relaxed when i have the security of pleasing a male Master.   i don't thave those same feelings with a Domme, my bisexual interest is completely nilla, no kink or power exchange and no need to find one specifically to please, other then my normal inclination to get along with strong women more then weak ones.

Anyone else have clues from their mothers emotional state --> hormone wash that makes sense to them in this way?

Or it could all just be hookey.
~bugn


(in reply to sleazybutterfly)
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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/4/2006 11:54:16 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Psyche, hormones, infant conditioning, genetics, a connection to something beyond the physical...

These are guesses.  Why was Beethoven a musician?  Why was Renoir an artist?  Julia Child a chef?  Louis Pasteur a scientist?  Okay these rhetorical questions don't help, other than to demonstrate we each have an inner drive which, when listened to, leads us to who we must be.  I'm not sure there is a scientific answer to your "why" question, however.  I think it is something in our personality that can not be defined.  Like any other personality trait - why do twins separated at birth behave the same?  These are mysteries yet undefined.

God, Celeste, don't keep me up at night with these questions!! LOL  If you find the answer though, let me know. 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/4/2006 11:58:26 PM   
sleazybutterfly


Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

i don't thave those same feelings with a Domme, my bisexual interest is completely nilla, no kink or power exchange and no need to find one specifically to please, other then my normal inclination to get along with strong women more then weak ones.




I found you saying this was interesting.  I am exactly the same way.  I am bisexual..always have been..yet for me.. a Domme doesn't have the same feeling as having a Dom does. 
 
Now you have me wondering why that is.. I just took it as a fact..and never really analyzed it before.  I don't know much about when mom was preg.. I know she had 8 miscarriages before me.  I am sure father was around... I don't know much about the relationship dynamic though. 
 
I am very curious now... hmmm....
 
                                 ~andrea

edited... because it's 3 am...and my fingers say it's way too late to be typing anymore.

< Message edited by sleazybutterfly -- 7/5/2006 12:00:39 AM >

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to Mavis)
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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 12:13:47 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		What an interesting post, Mavis. Thanks for sharing it.

My mother got very ill while she was pregnant with me. So ill, they took me by C-section a month early because they thought if she carried me to term, she'd die. She almost died anyway. I'm going to do some research into this.. fascinating stuff.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 12:15:38 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

God, Celeste, don't keep me up at night with these questions!!


hehe.. Yes, Ma'am!!

Soooooo.. what's your favorite color? ::chuckles, ducks and runs::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 12:17:48 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:


I found you saying this was interesting.  I am exactly the same way.  I am bisexual..always have been..yet for me.. a Domme doesn't have the same feeling as having a Dom does.  

 
                                 ~andrea

edited... because it's 3 am...and my fingers say it's way too late to be typing anymore.


You can put me in that group as well. Sexually speaking, I am much more attracted to women than men, but couldn't (wouldn't?) submit to another woman.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to sleazybutterfly)
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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 12:20:36 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

What an interesting post, Mavis. Thanks for sharing it.

My mother got very ill while she was pregnant with me. So ill, they took me by C-section a month early because they thought if she carried me to term, she'd die. She almost died anyway. I'm going to do some research into this.. fascinating stuff.

Celeste


My mother was ill with me as well.  Well, there's actually a bit of a story to that but nothing I want to share here...but...hmmmm....interesting stuff to ponder...

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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 12:22:06 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

God, Celeste, don't keep me up at night with these questions!!


hehe.. Yes, Ma'am!!

Soooooo.. what's your favorite color? ::chuckles, ducks and runs::

Celeste


Pfffffft!!!  You brat.  And to answer your more important question (because it has to do with me, no less), it depends on my mood - usually a dark red or a dark green.  heh. 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 12:28:07 AM   
srllile7


Posts: 75
Joined: 3/30/2006
Status: offline 		I'm on the complete nature side with this one.  I think that my simple nature to submit is all something that came about before my birth, or in the connections of my neurons.  I think along the lines of a transgendered, they have a male body with a female brain make up kinda thing.  I think if the research were put into it then a submissive of one sex's brain would have something so totally different then the make up of a dominantsbrain of the same sex.  However i do feel that some of my little ticks in submission are learned or from nurture, like loving to clean and cook, no matter what any Dom says not all submissives love to clean cook and keep a nice little house but i do. And in all likeliness this came from my stay at home mom who cleaned and cooked everyday.  Hopefully some part of that makes sense hehehe. 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 12:50:30 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I am not altogether sure I am hard-wired this way and am contemplating becoming a Switch. I am going to start reading the switch htreads more often. Maybe then, I don't qualify to answer, but I will venture an answer anyway:

I didn't actually believe I would ever find an "acceptable outlet" for these feelings (such as the Collarme website, much less a relationship with a Dom or Master) - even though I've had "these feelings" since I was about 10 years old. When I found out "other people did this too", they grew stronger and stronger - so maybe being thought of as "acceptable" has something to do with it.

I had parents who were pretty strong (not necessarily domineering) personality types - that could, I suppose have something to do with it.

They talked all the time, threw parties constantly, travelled a lot, and they were always on the -go, go, go. I sort of faded into the woodwork much of the time, because it seemed like a huge effort at times, simply to be heard.

They were wonderful parents (truly, I love them - my mom's dead). But they just sort of exploded into a room - and it sometimes didn't leave much room for me or my sisters. They made us do things like perform on stage (I was terribly shy as a young girl, and this was really difficult for me).

But, that being said, I am not sure that is the reason. I still think it could be genetic, because I know people who had passive parents that are submissives, too.

- Susan   

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/5/2006 12:54:10 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 12:57:43 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		OK, it's official. I'm a freak. ::laughs::

"In most people, the index finger is slightly shorter than the ring finger. But in the right hand, the difference is accentuated by higher levels of androgens during fetal development, according to the study. In women, the ring and the index finger tend to be almost the same size. In men, the index finger is usually shorter."

This is from a study of hormones and their IV effects on sexual orientation. My index finger is significantly longer than my ring finger.. almost a 1/4" if my ruler is correct. Certainly, visually, I can see a significant difference even if my ruler is not calibrated.

OK, it's a study and an old one at that and according to the article, they usually end up debunked, but interesting none-the-less. ::chuckles::

CNN.com - Male hormone levels in womb may affect sexual orientation, study says - March 29, 2000

Celeste



< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 7/5/2006 12:58:46 AM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 12:59:21 AM   
shivvy


Posts: 746
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: Ireland, living in Kent, England.
Status: offline 		i honestly think it's a mixture of everything. It's in our genes, it's how we woz brought up, it's out life experiences to date... i just know it's wot i am, and it's wot i need. i need to be controlled. i need to serve. even in completely vanilla surroundings, like at work, i need to help people and tidy up and clean... it don't get to me like a mental illness or nuffin, but i just think it saves somebody else doing it, you know. And when i helped somebody with something, i feel happy, and the more i can give, the happier i feel.
 
i hate deep probing questions like these, coz they make me think And i HATE thinking - lol
 
It is a good question Bita, but i just prefer not to think about it and just accept it. Otherwise it just goes round and round and round in my head.
 
Take care A/all
 
luv,
 
shiv
xx

_____________________________


(¯`v´¯)
`*.¸.*´
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(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´ ¸¸.•¨¯`•.εΐз¸¸.·*´¯`v´¯`*·.¸¸ـ εΐз ~*luv shivvy*~ ـ εΐз

xxx
Owned and collared by SavageFaerie and Master P

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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 1:03:28 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		OK, I won't ask your favorite color, shiv, because I think I can guess. 

On a side note: I also like to cook and clean.. I'm seeing a pattern here. ::laughs::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to shivvy)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 1:06:30 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		It's cool.. it's open to everyone, Susan.. and I've always enjoyed reading your posts. Your opinions are most welcome. :)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 1:19:22 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
My index finger is significantly longer than my ring finger.. almost a 1/4" if my ruler is correct. Certainly, visually, I can see a significant difference even if my ruler is not calibrated.



LOL I can just picture you sitting there with a ruler to your fingers, measuring with a perplexed look on your face, your Master wondeirng, "What the heck is she up to now??"

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 1:51:40 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

OK, it's official. I'm a freak. ::laughs::

CNN.com - Male hormone levels in womb may affect sexual orientation, study says - March 29, 2000

Celeste



Thanks for posting the link, i mis-remembered the hormone involved as testosterone, and it is in fact androgen.   Ah well.  Close!  

:: waggles freaky fingers in strange wave ::: 

i notice my right ring finger is almost 1/4 inch longer than the ring finger of my left hand, and both are longer than my index fingers.   What levels of freak-ness do i have going on here? 

i'm hiding my fingers before hubby/Dom or Master see it, and i'll grow index fingernail longer to cover my shame.

and dammit, i am phoning my lesbian daughter to come over tomorrow for a finger-check!

_____________________________

~ Mavis

none of this applies to me, i'm only playing with lables this week.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 2:53:02 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Well, let's see.  Just eyeballing my fingers, here...my right index and ring fingers are about the same length.  My left index finger is a little shorter than my left ring finger.

I'm confused, does this make me normal or a freak?

I'm not lesbian either, not even a teeny bit.

I'm submissive, once learning what it is about, realized I have been all my life, but considering my parents are both very dominant people, I haven't yet been able to decide if it's nature or nuture or both.

I was born prematurely, just cause I wanted to be.  Course, I've been late for just about everything since. 

I don't know.  I shouldn't read this stuff so early in the morning...lol.

edited to add:  Now I'm going to freak over the finger thing.  *sighs*

< Message edited by feastie -- 7/5/2006 2:54:19 AM >

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 3:53:14 AM   
talibahh


Posts: 389
Joined: 4/9/2006
From: NSW Australia
Status: offline 		hmmm.... you girls have me pondering and thats good. i never really thought about it that deeply, as *hard wiring*. It's just something i came to recognise and now just know. Something i accept, even embrace about who i am and love most... 
 
i am seeing some similarities that are interesting though... i enjoy cleaning and cooking too, infact i can be quite anal about mess... i like to have things just so (but have learnt with kids, this isnt possible as much and have surrendered a little to some mess )
 
as far as my mum though, she was fit and healthy during her pregnancy with me, and mum and dad are still happily married to this day... 30 years coming up soon, i think... so dont think there was any conflict there...
 
And... with the being bi... i also couldnt really imagine submitting to a Mistress/Domme the same as with a Master... the appeal for a Master was just so much greater than for a Mistress... yet the attraction i have for some women is undeniable... maybe it has something to do with the fact i am more a sex slut than a pain slut... i dont know... i just felt more like i needed a Master, not a Mistress... hmmm... more to ponder
 
Maybe Celeste or jali should start a poll... might be interesting...  great question Celeste... got me thinking and i love that
 
tali


edited before the spelling nazi's arrive... and hoping i didnt miss any errors

< Message edited by talibahh -- 7/5/2006 4:00:08 AM >

_____________________________

"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time" ~ Sir Winston Churchill

in giving You my freedom, i gain the freedom to be me ...
~ tali ~

(in reply to Mavis)
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