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RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 6:40:43 PM

sublizzie

Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Curious. Why does it worry you? I mean you don't 'have' to be hard-wired to 'get' the question and you are a submissive. I'd love to talk to you in person about it. Think you can make the July 15th munch? Let me know.. I'll email you the details.

Celeste

It worries me because indulging my submissiveness isn't easily done without a Dom/Master. And it's too much a part of me not to need that.

The 15th is reserved for the munch. Just let me know when, where, and what I can bring! I'm looking forward to talking with you as well.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 41

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 7:00:06 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm not "confused" by your question and don't get why you've taken a borderline (or more than borderline) pissy attitude about this.

I have no idea where you got that from. I reread my post and don't see it at all.

I'm sorry if that's your perception. It wasn't my intent.

Haven't you ever questioned your existance? That.. "Why am I here question." Does asking the question invalidate the truth that you actually 'are' here?

quote:

If I'm confused about anything, it's why you're making this question more complicated than it really is.

I don't believe I'm making it complicated at all. As I said, to me, it's crystal clear. You brought up leaves and hair color and such which seems to me to completely miss the mark.

quote:

You answered it yourself: it's just the way it is, accept it.

As I said, I have a hard time just 'accepting' something. I think it's the mathmatician in me. Numbers are logical. They make sense and it's why I had such a hard time with figuring out the square root of a negative number. There is no such animal, and yet, there is an answer. I never understood that answer and was told to just accept the truth of it. The square root of negative 4 is 2i. Why? See what I mean? There is no such thing as a square root to a negative number, but it was needed to figure out vectors, so someone, somewhere just made up an answer and it's accepted as mathmatical fact.

quote:

Telling me that leaves are green because of chlorophyll doesn't answer the question. Why do we perceive chlorophyll as green? We just do.

We'll have to agree to disagree. There is a 'reason' that we perceive leaves as green and it's explainable. Leaves aren't just green 'because'.

quote:

I think the answer to your question about why people are hardwired is in the same category as why we perceive leaves as green.

And I disagree. I find them to be two entirely different animals. So again, it's time to agree to disagree.

quote:

That's what "hardwired" means, after all. It means that it's in the wiring, and you can't change it.

I already know that.. that wasn't the question however.

quote:

Maybe you mean something different by "hardwired," and maybe that's where the confusion is coming from.

No, that's exactly what I mean by it as well. I'm not confused, I'm just uninformed as to the answer to my question.

quote:

Or maybe, frankly, the confusion is on YOUR end, because anyone who didn't know you better would read what you just wrote and say to himself, "Now there is a submissive who is having a hard time accepting what she is..."

Again, I'm not confused about the question.. and no one else appeared to be confused either. Accepting 'who' I am has nothing to do with wanting to know 'why' I am. If there are those whose perception of my question lead them to believe that I'm having a hard time accepting myself, there's not a lot I can do about it. I not only accept the truth of myself, I embrace it wholeheartedly. I thrive on this life. I love it, live it and enjoy it.

That doesn't mean I don't want to know why I thrive on it. Why I love it.

It's just a question.. and I do believe I'm getting closer to an answer for myself in no small part due to some of the posts on this very thread which have caused me to do some outside research coupled with a lengthy phone conversation with my Mother.

Have you never asked yourself, 'why am I a dominant?' Do you know why or do you just accept that you are and go on with life as it is?

If you know why, then you'll understand that I'd like to know why as well. If you just accept that .. well, that's you, not me. I still want to know why.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 42

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 7:08:10 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Well, the way I see it, I'm dominant for the same reasons that I have brown hair. I just am. Sure, it took me a while to understand and accept that I am, but once I understood it and accepted it, there wasn't more to ask. I don't ask myself why I have brown hair--or why I really love sushi.

Maybe the word we're using differently is not "hardwired," but "why." What exactly do you mean by "why"? Do you mean what is the evolutionary reason why you're submissive? Or what is the mechanism that has made you submissive? Or what function in the universe you serve as a submissive? To me, "why" means "for what reason," and I don't believe the universe has reasons, at least not reasons that satisfy us humans with our self-centered frame of reference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Have you never asked yourself, 'why am I a dominant?' Do you know why or do you just accept that you are and go on with life as it is?

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 43

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 7:50:20 PM

Caretakr

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

The best question I have found is just "why not?"

And love the answer.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 44

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 7:52:29 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

Maybe the word we're using differently is not "hardwired," but "why." What exactly do you mean by "why"?

Dictionary definition of 'why' works here for me.

quote:

Do you mean what is the evolutionary reason why you're submissive?

Possibly, if the reason is evolutionary. Certainly an evolutionary answer would satisfy my curiosity.

quote:

Or what is the mechanism that has made you submissive?

Could be that too, if the reason is genetic, which I'm beginning to believe may be part of the answer actually.

quote:

Or what function in the universe you serve as a submissive?

Hmm.. hard to say because that's not exactly what I'm looking for. Probably not though. I answered the question 'why am I here' for myself a long time ago. Maybe that's part of my puzzlement. That one seemed easy for me yet this one (why am I hard-wired this way) eludes me and has for my entire life.

quote:

To me, "why" means "for what reason," and I don't believe the universe has reasons, at least not reasons that satisfy us humans with our self-centered frame of reference.

You could be right. But, I'm not yet ready to discount there is, in fact, a reason. I don't think it's a matter of being a reason related to the universe though (as in some Higher Power determined that "I" Celeste, needed to be submissive because ...) I may be self-centered, but I'm not quite that self-centered. I don't think it really would make a smidge of difference to the universe whether I was dominant, submissive or a kangaroo. ::laughs::

Modern science has given us a lot of reasons for things that were once misunderstood .. and who knows, maybe in the future, there will be some scientific breakthrough that allows one to answer questions such as these with valid, logical reasons that can satisfy curiosities such as mine. I believe we're getting close to it right now and with a little luck, it will be discovered in my lifetime.

Or not. This might be one of those cases where I'll just have to die in ignorance. ::laughs::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 45

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 7:54:53 PM

reticence

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline

celeste,

I often ask myself why also...

I think there is a genetic predisposition.. the "hardwiring" (nature) but i also think there has to be an environmental key that unlocks that genetic predisposition (the nurture) we have had some good guesses about the nurture part... the modeling by our parents, birth order, perhaps meeting that first "One" The one that inspires that submissiveness.
I am not even sure that the environmental key is the same for each of us..it could very well be different in each of us.
I have always been a caretaker, always found a degree of satisfaction in being of service... but it was meeting that One,, when he held my hands over my head and told me not to move and proceeded to do the most amazing things to me... somehow that unlocked the erotic component of the service... probably the most OMG moment of my life. So perhaps it is a combination of nurture components that unlock they genetic coding.... OH My,, now i am more confused than ever....

sorry, i really thought i had something to add until i got all caught up in remembering that moment.....

off to the shower

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 46

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 8:31:57 PM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

I'm completely with LaM on this one... I just am

For many years & often with a touch of humor I will say it is Popeye 101: I y'am what I y'am.

This entire post was questioning... why why why

For me to know that I was a dominant wasn't an effort, or a matter of acceptance. It was never anything I had to come to terms with... I just knew. The only struggle was finding out there was actually a word/term to describe the who/what I am. The biggest struggle was discovering that there were actually others out there very much like myself.

I find the a vast majority of people who are hardwired simply know this about themselves & really never pause to question it.. for the most part the only question that may come to mind is how to be the very best (dom/sub) possible.

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 7/5/2006 8:33:11 PM >

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 47

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 8:32:33 PM

sweetnessforsir

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline

A few weeks ago I had a very small windfall. The first thing I did was go out and get a special gift for Master, the dog, and the kitties. I was flying high when I was done.

When I reported my shopping to Master, He asked what I had gotten for myself. I stumbled for a moment, and then answered that I got incredible pleasure by pleasing others . . . (even the dog and the kitties). And that is true . . . my gift was pleasing Master, AJ, Spanky, and Buster.

I tell this story because I think it is a good illustration of what I get out of being a submissive/slave. There is a great satisfaction in feeding the places where the love comes to me.

s.

(in reply to talibahh)

Post #: 48

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 9:14:46 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

For me to know that I was a dominant wasn't an effort, or a matter of acceptance.

I understand that completely.. for me to know that I am submissive is no effort either, nor a matter of acceptance. Same coin, different side.

quote:

It was never anything I had to come to terms with... I just knew.

I just knew as well. (like you, I didn't alway have a name for it though)

quote:

I find the a vast majority of people who are hardwired simply know this about themselves & really never pause to question it..

I know it as well.. however, I paused to question damn near everything when it came to my thoughts, my nature, my behavior, my motives ... that may not be what the vast majority does, but it's par for the course with me. I have found it to be par for the course with many of my friends who are of a submissive bent as well.. so, maybe it is an orientation issue on top of everything else.

I appreciate the post, MstrssPassion. Every dominant I've ever asked this question of has had pretty much the same reaction that you and LaM have including my own Master. In fact.. I can put, verbatim, the conversation we had as it's very short.

Me: Why are you hard-wired as a dominant?

Himself: Because I want to be.

Me: Well, why do you want to be?

Himself: Because I'm a dominant and I just am.

This conversation is why I came to the ask a submissive forum. ::laughs:: When he read my post, his response to it was.. "You just are.. don't worry about it."

I'm not 'worried' about it though.. I'm curious about it, that's all. I don't lose sleep over it or anything. I just want to know and I believe that I'm getting closer to an answer that will satisfy me, so the effort has been worthwhile.

Celeste

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 7/5/2006 9:15:52 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

Post #: 49

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 9:15:56 PM

reticence

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline

There is a difference between finding out the "what" I am submissive, I accept and find great joy in that fact, and yes, finding out there were others out there that were the same or similar, finding the name for "what" I was, was an incredible experience.

But I guess some of us are wondering "why" What is it that makes us that way? I don't think asking that question detracts from who we are, makes us less submissive or less accepting of our submissiveness. It is not like a "why me" type of lament... I have enjoyed reading the post a lot. Thank you for starting it Celeste.

(in reply to sweetnessforsir)

Post #: 50

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 9:24:03 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: reticence

There is a difference between finding out the "what" I am submissive, I accept and find great joy in that fact, and yes, finding out there were others out there that were the same or similar, finding the name for "what" I was, was an incredible experience.

But I guess some of us are wondering "why" What is it that makes us that way? I don't think asking that question detracts from who we are, makes us less submissive or less accepting of our submissiveness. It is not like a "why me" type of lament... I have enjoyed reading the post a lot. Thank you for starting it Celeste.

It's been enlightening. I find it.. intriguing, that the dominants who have answered (online and offline) all think so much alike on the subject and I'm rather curious as to 'why' that is. ::laughs:: Perhaps it's natural self-assurance they have in their own dominance that they don't question 'why' they are they way they are.. and yet, I know so many submissive's who do want to know what makes them tick in that respect.

That's a question for another day though.. and no doubt, I will ask it at some point .. when the time is right and in the proper forum.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to reticence)

Post #: 51

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 9:37:07 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

Celeste, damn it, if you don't stop my OCD is going to kick and I am going to go many sleepless nights wondering WHY!!! Arrrrrghhhh!!!!

~ Looks for a bridge from which to plunge.... LOL

(No seriously, I'll probably obsess about this awhile)

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 52

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 9:41:18 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

Have an apple, honey.. and take comfort in the fact that Himself is the one who has to live with me and keeps me 'mostly' away from society at large so I can't do too much damage. ::chuckles::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 53

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 9:48:21 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

~ Just laughs~

Between your questions and finger measuring, I can imagine he laughs a lot. An apple sounds good. I have far too many things knocking around in the brain - adding one more would disrupt the balance.

But still..............

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 54

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/5/2006 11:18:42 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

There are 22 different definitions of "why" in the Oxford English Dictionary. I really think you're making the simple things complicated, and the complicated things simple.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

Maybe the word we're using differently is not "hardwired," but "why." What exactly do you mean by "why"?

Dictionary definition of 'why' works here for me.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 55

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/6/2006 12:05:38 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

There are 22 different definitions of "why" in the Oxford English Dictionary.

The first entry will work.

quote:

I really think you're making the simple things complicated, and the complicated things simple.

Maybe, but I'm on a journey here. I've already answered a lot of the 'whys' in my life to my satisfaction. I don't question those things anymore.

Why do I like split pea soup when I hate peas?
Why do I exist?
Why do I love Michael?
Why am I a masochist?
Why am I a sadist?

I've answered all of those and many more.

However, I still have questions to which I'd like the answers. I'm willing to put in the time and effort to get the answers I seek. I'm not hurting anyone and the very process of the effort is causing me to learn more about myself. So for me, it's a worthwhile endeavor.

If and when I am satisfied with the answer to the question that I'm currently researching, I'll move on to my next question. Right now, I'm still working on this one and I'm one of those people that has to figure the answer out for myself.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 56

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/6/2006 2:04:06 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

LOL on the scientific studies, Bita! There are probably some conflicting ones out there, I'd suppose

I am usuaully interested in why just because I am a curious person (the OCD sometimes does kick in, but mine used to come in really handy on the job, hehehe).
I think shivvy may be right I that it could vary by person? I'd rather shop for other people, too. My father is always remarking on this (why don't you buy yourself something)?...

My mother said from the time I was very small I shared my toys and grew "concerned" if another baby was crying and wanted to give them one of my toys. If they wouldn't take it, I would make smiley faces at them, etc.

She said my middle sister,(I am the oldest of 3 girls), on the other hand - no way was she sharing her toys! With me, or anyone else. She wanted mine, and yours, too. She was like that from day one. Plus, my mom said she always cried the loudest and the longest (guess that was just seeming like too much work to me)...But (to me) she is a nice person, really. If she weren't such a prude, I would ask her if she has secret Domme fantasies. I do love her, though - we get along quite well.

My youngest sister might actually try bdsm if I ever told her about it (maybe she has already) - she is a real open-minded gal and the words "too out there" just don't really seem to exist for her in many ways (but we don't discuss sex much in our family).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/6/2006 2:22:08 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 57

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/6/2006 9:29:05 AM

Mavis

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

To me, "why" means "for what reason," and I don't believe the universe has reasons,.

You know, that could be the cruxt of it right there, i do believe the universe has reasons, and not knowing them doesn't change the laws of matter in the universe, but i *like* knowing why.

On a micro level, In our D/s, M/s relationships, submissives sometimes hear "because I said so and My reasons are not for you at this time." we accept that. Often a Dominant will choose to reveal His or Her reasons eventually, and we know from experience, that usually adds something to us, the knowing. So yes, we seek to know when we can.

On a macro level, i feel the same. i might not need to know why the universe works as it does, but it'd be nice. Pondering these things isn't just to give our little minds something to do in spare time, maybe it helps us settle with the fates. Maybe it feeds the need to belong, hoping in the end i can sit back and say yes, i am fulfilling a role humanity needs to sustain itself.

Which is in fact what i believe, that humans have different roles and how many don each type of role is what keeps us in balance so we can have operating societies. Just as we have green things to release oxygen at differing heights to blanket the atmosphere in a balanced way, it's nice to know that design is there. i don't care if i was designed or evolved to be a clover, a bush, or a tall tree, just that i have a role.

my Master does understand the question Celeste, although He doesn't think it needs much questioning. W/we agree it has to do with balancing society.. O/our dialogue would be more like

Why are You wired to be Dominant?
Because there has to be X number of chiefs and X number of indians to maintain the tribe. Who cares what number X is. Me chief. you indian.

i do think it isn't fully random, and it can't be fully choice. Can you imagine if all of humanity made a choice to be Chiefs, or all to be indians? gawd. It has to be "managed" in our genetics the same way male vs female is, so we never have a society that cannot reproduce.

Somebody started the first queries into gender. it MUST have been a submissive that first asked "Why are some born boys and some born girls?" Now we know--- a Dominant probably didn't need to know. lol.

_____________________________

~ Mavis

none of this applies to me, i'm only playing with lables this week.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 58

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/6/2006 9:32:59 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Well, I don't want to turn this into a debate about evolution vs. intelligent design, but I cannot agree that the universe was "designed." I think you're misusing the word "know" in the sentence "It's nice to know that design is there." "Believe," maybe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

Just as we have green things to release oxygen at differing heights to blanket the atmosphere in a balanced way, it's nice to know that design is there. i don't care if i was designed or evolved to be a clover, a bush, or a tall tree, just that i have a role.

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 59

RE: Hard-wired why, why why! - 7/6/2006 10:02:08 AM

Mavis

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, I don't want to turn this into a debate about evolution vs. intelligent design, but I cannot agree that the universe was "designed." I think you're misusing the word "know" in the sentence "It's nice to know that design is there." "Believe," maybe.

Oh, fair point Sir. i honestly do try to edit for a wider array of belief systems than my own, but i miss things. Oddly enuf, i believe evolution is part of intelligent design. lol. So that'll muddy the waters a bit...

(no, that comment does not expect a reply, i've hijacked this thread a bit there, sorry.)

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 60

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