RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge

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mnottertail -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 9:01:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: Rule ... The Divine is obliged to be impartial, to be neutral. To not be so, would cause fraud and false play. ... If the "Divine" is obliged to be impartial, to be neutral, that would mean that it would not care if his creation suffered good or ill. But just as a good father wants what is best for his children, God wants what is best for his "children" and wanting what is best does not mean that children can not choose to do things that are not best for them. ;-) And as it has been reportedly pointed out, god is on his own accord a personally uncaring one. Job and the guy in the wrong place wrong time, for example. Jesus might have said feed the poor, but he didnt stand in the market place and keep creating loaves and fishes to give away, and as we know, faith, without works, is dead.

GotSteel -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 10:31:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles Down through the ages, the nation of Israel meticulously kept the records of the lineage of the Messiah down to the time of Jesus thus Jesus' lineage could be accurately be traced down through history as was done in Matthew 1:1-16 and Luke 3:23-38. After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70CE records of lineage were no longer kept and so today there is no lineage records that could be checked to see if someone is in the lineage of the messiah. Or they just made that shit up to make Jesus seem more credible. The census story which was just brought up for instance, clearly never happened. People didn't have to return to their place of birth back then to fill out a census form any more than they do now. Consider how much of a complete cluster fuck such a census would be now and then remember how much more difficult it was to travel back then.

Milesnmiles -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 10:46:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail And as it has been reportedly pointed out, god is on his own accord a personally uncaring one. Job and the guy in the wrong place wrong time, for example. It was mankind that turned it's back on God. We don't need your advice. We can decide for ourselves what is good and evil, right and wrong. We can do with your help. but when it all goes wrong it's all, God won't help us he is uncaring, unloving. Make up your mind, either stand with God or do it yourself without him but don't don't blame him for not giving you any help when you told him you didn't want it. quote: Jesus might have said feed the poor, but he didnt stand in the market place and keep creating loaves and fishes to give away, and as we know, faith, without works, is dead. Jesus had a job to do when he was on earth and that job did not entail doing away with all of mankind's self made problems with one sweep of his hand.

Milesnmiles -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 11:27:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel Or they just made that shit up to make Jesus seem more credible. Or you could check the readily available evidence on the subject or continue pulling your comments out of your hat. quote: The census story which was just brought up for instance, clearly never happened. Some sort of proof would be nice. quote: People didn't have to return to their place of birth back then to fill out a census form any more than they do now. "It has been established that the taking of a census was quite common at about the time of Christ. An ancient Latin inscription called the Titulus Venetus indicates that a census took place in Syria and Judea about AD 5-6 and that this was typical of those held throughout the Roman Empire from the time of Augustus (23 BC-AD 14) until at least the third century AD. Indications are that this census took place every fourteen years. Other such evidence indicates that these procedures were widespread [2. Ibid., pp. 193-194]. Concerning persons returning to their home city for the taxation-census, an Egyptian papyrus dating from AD 104 reports just such a practice. This rule was enforced, as well [3. Ibid. p. 194]." [The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ (1996) by Gary Habermas] quote: Consider how much of a complete cluster fuck such a census would be now and then remember how much more difficult it was to travel back then. Which is why the second census in 6 C.E. sparked a rebellion by Judas the Galilean and the Zealots.

Rule -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 12:58:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: Rule ... The Divine is obliged to be impartial, to be neutral. To not be so, would cause fraud and false play. ... If the "Divine" is obliged to be impartial, to be neutral, that would mean that it would not care if his creation suffered good or ill. But just as a good father wants what is best for his children, God wants what is best for his "children" and wanting what is best does not mean that children can not choose to do things that are not best for them. ;-) You are attributing a human concept - to care - to an 'it' that is 'outside' our universe. To go around a block one can go clockwise or counter-clockwise. Does the choice matter?

Milesnmiles -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 1:08:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: Rule ... The Divine is obliged to be impartial, to be neutral. To not be so, would cause fraud and false play. ... If the "Divine" is obliged to be impartial, to be neutral, that would mean that it would not care if his creation suffered good or ill. But just as a good father wants what is best for his children, God wants what is best for his "children" and wanting what is best does not mean that children can not choose to do things that are not best for them. ;-) You are attributing a human concept - to care - to an 'it' that is 'outside' our universe. To go around a block one can go clockwise or counter-clockwise. Does the choice matter? You may consider the "Divine" an it but I consider God to be a person. Thus if you think to your it, it doesn't matter, that is up to you but God is not an it and to God it does matter and the human - to care - was given to us by that God.

Rule -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 1:16:44 PM)
You do not know what you are talking about. I do. [sm=alien.gif]

Milesnmiles -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 1:28:40 PM)
Whatever ;-)

maxwell22 -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 1:49:59 PM)
Yes Of course all religion were and are harmful and a poison and a horrible threat for humans and animals and our planet.specially Islam.I live in Iran and I know what the hell is Islam,ask me ,I will tell you.

DaBotz -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 2:41:35 PM)
"Is religion a tool created to control knowledge ?" I don't think so. Religion was created as a way to give some answers to a lot of painful questions that grieved ancient men (and not only them). Why we must die? What happens to our loved ones when they die? is there a reason for the pain in the world? Is my life senseless? etc... Obviously, the manifold nature of the answers that each and every religion has come up with to each and any of these questions may give, to an external observer, the impression that the whole thing is some kind of an ass-pull. But, though some religions may indeed be ass-pulls (overtly, like Rastafarianism or the Church of the Unigenius, others covertly, like the "church of happyology"), most are not. Simply, most of these questions have not just one right answer (whatever single religions may say). Unfortunately, many religions have lent themselves to become political tools in the hands of some ruling caste (some have been devised as this from the get-go, most have become one with time), and those rulers had many a reason to avoid new ideas interfering with the efficacy of their thought control tools. Which is all that is behind various idiotic "contrasts" between religion and "rational" knowledge. Political fights for the control of the believers...

GotSteel -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 3:21:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel The census story which was just brought up for instance, clearly never happened. Some sort of proof would be nice. Happy to. quote: ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Quirinius#The_Gospel_of_Luke The first two chapters of the Gospel of Luke indicate the birth of Jesus took place at the time of the census: In those days a decree went out from Emperor Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. All went to their own towns to be registered. Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was descended from the house and family of David. He went to be registered with Mary, to whom he was engaged and who was expecting a child. (Luke 2:1–7—NRSV) The passage describes how Jesus' parents, Joseph and Mary, travel from their home in Nazareth, in Galilee, to Bethlehem, where Jesus is born. This explains how Jesus, a Galilean, could have been born in Bethlehem in Judea, the city of King David. However, this passage has long been considered problematic by Biblical scholars, since it places the birth of Jesus around the time of the census in 6/7, whereas both this Gospel and the Gospel of Matthew, which makes no mention of the census, indicate a birth in the reign of Herod the Great, who died in 4 BCE, at least ten years earlier.[12] In addition, no historical sources mention a census of the Roman world which would cover the entire population. Those of Augustus covered Roman citizens only,[13] and it was not the practice in Roman censuses to require people to return to their ancestral homes.[14][15][16][17][18] James Dunn wrote: "the idea of a census requiring individuals to move to the native town of long dead ancestors is hard to credit".[19] E. P. Sanders points out that it would have been the practice for the census-takers, not the taxed, to travel, and that Joseph, resident in Galilee, would not have been covered by a census in Judaea.[20] Think about it who was emperor? Augustus or Herod? Either way there's a problem with your Bible.

Rule -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 3:54:42 PM)
Or with our comprehension of the testimony.

vincentML -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 7:27:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: njlauren quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: I always liked the idea of following Jesus, not believing because he was son of God or the trinity, but rather in how he lived his life and taught. As someone once said, Christians are often so caught up in him being the Son of God they ignore what he taught; it is why so many so called Born again Christians seem to be such meanspirited people, they are so caught up in their faith being the right one they seem to forget how to act.... Hi Lauren :) Jesus told his disciples to abandon their wives and families and to follow him because they would see the kingdom of heaven in their life time. Paul preached the same. How do you reconcile that we are still here? Very easy,we don't really know what Jesus actually said. Jesus said that no one but God new the time of the second coming as far as I recall, and I wonder about Jesus telling people to abandon their families and such......It is obvious Paul thought the end of days was nigh. When I say following Jesus, I mean the Jesus who tried to show us how to live, I am a lot less impressed by the supernatural, or Jesus as God incarnate, which quite frankly isn't biblical, that was the work of one group of Christians. [:D] History testifies that no one has paid much attention to Jesus' message of love so as a teacher he was not only unoriginal but also a failure.

vincentML -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 7:35:48 PM)
quote: Then maybe you are just listening to the wrong voices. Moderate Christians may not shout, jump up and down and get all mean spirited and hateful, but we are here. And it is really not solely our job to protest extremists its everyone's. Just make sure you are directing your protests at the actual extremists. Similar to the complaint levied BY moderate Muslims, do not try to label EVERYONE who uses this title as an extremist just because one narrow minded group did the wrong thing. Indeed you are here. But a look at the history of Christianity reveals you gentle moderates are anomalous. I hope I do not need to recite the atrocities committed since Constantine to make my point.

vincentML -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 7:42:21 PM)
quote: The other thing is when we say the bible is the word of God, what does that mean? Fundamentalists believe the people who wrote it were somehow "guided' by God, some believe the NT came about as a full book that dropped out of the sky......the Bible represents the views of those who wrote it, it represents them feeling something and trying to communicate it. The NT texts have too long a history, they weren't created linearly, and they were put together by groups of Bishops, not by it dropping out of the sky...add that up, and saying it is the word of God literally, that it is the be all and end all, doesn't hold water....yeah lot of people believe that, but a lot of people don't, too. Exactly, Lauren. The history of the construction of the Canon represents the creation of a tool to control knowledge as the OP suggests.

vincentML -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 7:45:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Rule It is interference in what I do and thus introducing a flaw in the course of my life and into the destiny of the universe. For this reason the Divine is not permitted to want. Sez who? Anything capable of restricting what the Divine is "permitted" would be greater than it. To paraphrase the thread title, theology is a tool created to control God. K. Rule has his own unique, invented theology and cosmic structure. [:D] You debate with shadows when you enter into his world.

vincentML -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 7:48:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux How many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb? One. But the lightbulb really has to want to change. Despite its unwillingness the light bulb can be healed at Fatima. It will glow again. [sm=cheerleader.gif]

vincentML -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 7:54:43 PM)
quote: Like I said: "Should we ask the moderators to check and see if I've treated you as badly as you say I have?" ;-) Where/when did I complain about you treating me badly? Repeating the lie will not gain you the miracle of Truth. Whine to the Mods if you wish. Be prepared to state your case with details. Or you can cry to your mommy. [sm=duel.gif]

GotSteel -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 8:00:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Very easy,we don't really know what Jesus actually said. This is kind of an important point, The Jesus Seminar which I'd recommend anyone interested in the subject to look into was an endeavor to sort history from fiction. It's interesting not just because of their findings (such as 80% of the statements attributed to Jesus likely weren't said by him) but because you get to look through the conversation among scholars doing modern historical and textual analysis on the subject.

vincentML -> RE: is religion a tool created to control knowledge (1/11/2014 8:03:39 PM)
quote: It was mankind that turned it's back on God. We don't need your advice. We can decide for ourselves what is good and evil, right and wrong. We can do with your help. but when it all goes wrong it's all, God won't help us he is uncaring, unloving. God is a merciless, mean and or impotent old dude when he allows nature to kill the innocent. You ignore that in your apologia.

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