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[Poll]

Will the American Empire collapse?


America is and will remain strong for 100+ years
  18% (8)
America is declining in power, collapse in 75 years
  6% (3)
Collapse in 50 years
  13% (6)
Collapse in 25 years
  9% (4)
Collapse in 15 years
  6% (3)
Collapse in 10 years
  11% (5)
The collapse has already happened
  23% (10)
It's hard to say
  9% (4)


Total Votes : 43


(last vote on : 1/29/2014 5:02:40 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 9:42:46 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

"Collapse" is too strong a word. The only way the US empire would collapse is military defeat and occupation of the mainland or a civil war.

There's other ways for an Empire to collapse. Star Wars was not a documentary.
(The bankruptcy model that brought down the British empire looks a lot more likely at this point.)


But did the British Empire actually "collapse," though? Britain itself is still a first world country with a comparable standard of living, and their political system still seems relatively stable. The English language is still widely spoken and is the international language of business. While it's no longer a political empire, the financial and cultural influence is still felt throughout the world, including America.

It's been said that America is not an empire, but thinking on that, was the British Empire truly an "empire" in the same sense as the Roman and other ancient Empires in human history? Geographically, it was far-flung all over the planet and extremely problematic in trying to hold and defend, while struggling to maintain a precarious balance of power in Europe itself. The difference with the Romans is that they had control over their own immediate vicinity, whereas the British bypassed the European continent and started their empire-building on other continents, while competing with other European powers (mostly the French and Spanish) over these far-flung territories, leading to various wars and squabbles which only escalated as more up-and-coming powers wanted to grab their share of the spoils, too.

The two World Wars were the culmination of these squabbles, leading to the main imperial powers of Europe cancelling each other out and wasting most of their national power to defend themselves from each other. What might be seen as the American "empire" today is really the remnants of the former European empires which were left in tatters after the World Wars, leaving a geopolitical power vacuum which America took advantage of. In that sense, America's "empire" was already collapsing before we even took control of it. A large part of the justification was also to prevent other powers (such as the Soviet Union) from expanding their empire in the same way.

But now, it seems the global system is such that, national or "imperial" power just isn't as relevant as it used to be. Money is all that seems to matter nowadays, and the "empire" is for sale.


Good post. In the 19th C Britain controlled the seas. In the 21st C America controls the seas and provides some assurance of safe passage for oil and other commodities. Another remarkable aspect of the British Empire in the 19th C was the journeys of their explorers and adventures advancing into "dark" continents (carrying smallpox) much as the Spanish did in the 16th C. America's explorations has taken us away from Earth's gravity. Many similarities between Empires then and now. I particularly agree with your citing the marriage between the English language and the American dollar as a pillar of Empire. No one much speaks Latin anymore. And Spanish in the Americas is not backed by a currency. I have high hopes for America to remain a dominant force throughout the 21st C. If anything is crumbling it is the hope of political union in the Euro zone.

(in reply to Zonie63)
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RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 9:45:30 AM   
Tkman117


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Why would you want the European union to crash?

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RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 9:45:56 AM   
GoddessManko


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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29 Crazyml...actually yes. And the EU barely beats us based on currency exchange so...yea...

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RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 9:48:19 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Please note that Germany's largest trading partner both times was Britain. So, national issues can drop out the intellect like diarheaa.


Do you mean national leaders do stupid stuff? I would never have guessed . . . lol!

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RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 9:48:35 AM   
Tkman117


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I'm not much of an expert in economics, so I fail to see how it matters. Sorry. An explanation could go a long way thanks :)

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RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 9:50:28 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Why would you want the European union to crash?

I didn't say that's what I wanted. And I referred to the hopes for a political union specifically.

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RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 9:51:44 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Please note that Germany's largest trading partner both times was Britain. So, national issues can drop out the intellect like diarheaa.


Do you mean national leaders do stupid stuff? I would never have guessed . . . lol!


Bring it on!!!! Hehheheheheheheheeh.  We have Nuculer weapons, 'Merika!!!!! Greatest country on earth!!!  Greatest Free Market in the world!!!!   

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 9:51:48 AM   
Tkman117


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Sorry for the misunderstanding. But why would you want the union of those countries to fail? Would that mean you want them collapsing into war? Still not entirely sure I'm following...

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 9:52:29 AM   
GoddessManko


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Is anyone aware that the British have trade agreements with their former Commonwealth nations? There's a symbiotic relationship that still exists today.
There qas essentially no real "collapse" there. Just "you scratch my back, I scratch yours but we want our sovereignty".
A collapse means an actual decline in productivity. A "crash" essentially. There are recessions and maybe even Depressions but no collapse and why would anyone think the US doesn't have a larger GDP than most nations collectively? Odd...
My statement was correct, LOL.


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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 9:55:59 AM   
mnottertail


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Yeah, what exactly are we producing that is needful?  What are we producing that is exported?   We are ag, and services, very little industry.  

We have a high unemployment as well. 

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RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 9:59:06 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Sorry for the misunderstanding. But why would you want the union of those countries to fail? Would that mean you want them collapsing into war? Still not entirely sure I'm following...

You are not following. It has nothing to do with what I WANT. Just an observation on future prospects.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 10:00:50 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Is anyone aware that the British have trade agreements with their former Commonwealth nations? There's a symbiotic relationship that still exists today.
There qas essentially no real "collapse" there. Just "you scratch my back, I scratch yours but we want our sovereignty".
A collapse means an actual decline in productivity. A "crash" essentially. There are recessions and maybe even Depressions but no collapse and why would anyone think the US doesn't have a larger GDP than most nations collectively? Odd...
My statement was correct, LOL.


Is economic productivity the measure of Empire?

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 10:01:04 AM   
Tkman117


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Okay... you did say this though: "I referred to the hopes for a political union specifically." I think thats where I got confused, was with the word hope

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 10:03:09 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Okay... you did say this though: "I referred to the hopes for a political union specifically." I think thats where I got confused, was with the word hope

Their hopes, not mine. I am indifferent to it.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 10:06:37 AM   
Tkman117


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ok, sorry, my bad XD

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 11:14:43 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
In the 21st C America controls the seas and provides some assurance of safe passage for oil and other commodities.

Has anybody told the Somalis that?


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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 11:20:49 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

Says who? Just because we want reasonable gun legislature does not mean we don't own weapons. Many of us do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

One good thing about a collapse, ...leftists don't like guns.





Ah,.....that was meant as humor.
But, seeing as you're a leftist.....

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RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 4:54:46 PM   
VeryMercurial


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quote:

An admirable post. But I don't understand why we can't strengthen the safety net for the poor and unemployed.


Another question could be, "Do we WANT to strengthen the safety net for the very large and rapidly growing population of poor, underemployed, and unemployed in this Capitalistic country called America.

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RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 8:02:25 PM   
Milesnmiles


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

China already has enough USA dollars that if they dumped them on the market, the USA would collapse overnight and has for years.

So the good old USA can collapse over night, as demonstrated a couple of years ago, by the near collapse of the economy at the end of Monkeyboy's reign.

The big problem at this time is if the USA collapses, then the whole world's economies would collapse was well and that is why at this point the USA can "print" money.


Not so. We had this discussion above. China converts its dollars into US Treasuries bills and other investments. They are not sitting with stacks of dollars. Any threat of selling off treasury bills will increase our short term rates. China gains no benefit if the US were to go bankrupt. The only avenue to bankruptcy for us would be Congressional action to stop paying our debt, as far as I know.
And US Treasuries bills are totally different?

Okay, China has enough US "holdings", that if they divested themselves of them the US economy would collapse over night.

As I pointed out the reason why China has not yet done that is that "the US is the world's market place and without the the good old USA there would be no place to sell their goods."

So what China and the oil rich countries are doing is "looking for ways to disconnect themselves from the US dollar", which will still collapse the US economy, just slower.

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RE: Will the American Empire collapse? - 1/21/2014 8:11:23 PM   
Sissificated


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I hope and pray the the UNITED STATES INC.

Based on the Federal Reserve system (about as federal as Fed Ex) COMPLETELY and FULLY collapses
and the American public either at last get "a constitutional republic" ..(Id be for that) Or something even better....

Either way...there are certain politicians, congressman, senators, p[olicemen LAWYERS, judges and a few other who i would
absolutely LOVE seeing HANGING from street lamp posts for what they have done.

Not just here but around the world.

Thats my "Rational" view.

It wont collapse quickly enough for me.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 100
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