Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies

Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (Full Version)

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Phydeaux -> Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 12:16:53 AM)
As advertized, germany will be cutting the unsustainable subsidies for renewable energy. http://news.yahoo.com/germany-eyes-swift-cuts-renewable-energy-subsidies-164549194.html

DomKen -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 2:31:03 AM)
They're reducing the subsidies due to the high cost of closing their nuclear plants, as your own article clearly states in the lede. quote: Berlin (AFP) - Germany's new energy minister has outlined cuts in subsidies to producers of renewable energy as the country wrestles with soaring costs from its nuclear power exit, according to a document obtained by AFP Sunday Why must you lie at every opportunity?

joether -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 3:06:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen They're reducing the subsidies due to the high cost of closing their nuclear plants, as your own article clearly states in the lede. quote: Berlin (AFP) - Germany's new energy minister has outlined cuts in subsidies to producers of renewable energy as the country wrestles with soaring costs from its nuclear power exit, according to a document obtained by AFP Sunday Why must you lie at every opportunity? Telling the truth or displaying an honest fact that doesn't advance the agenda would never happen. Its like FOX News but on an individual scale. Either way, you know to never trust the information to begin with, nor accept anything said or shown at face value. That's what we call 'history'.

Lucylastic -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 3:24:46 AM)
Yeah but it is fun to take a spoke outta their wheels, or ignore them as not being credible enough to even snort derisively at

DesideriScuri -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 3:32:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen They're reducing the subsidies due to the high cost of closing their nuclear plants, as your own article clearly states in the lede. quote: Berlin (AFP) - Germany's new energy minister has outlined cuts in subsidies to producers of renewable energy as the country wrestles with soaring costs from its nuclear power exit, according to a document obtained by AFP Sunday Why must you lie at every opportunity? What was the lie? Apparently, cost of energy rose due to shuttering the nuclear plants. That's right, isn't it? Subsidies to alternative energy were cut to deal with that rise in costs. Seems to me, when the cost of energy rises, the subsidies to alternative energy are no longer sustainable at their previous level. It looks like analyses of the OP may have been jaded.

Politesub53 -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 3:39:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen They're reducing the subsidies due to the high cost of closing their nuclear plants, as your own article clearly states in the lede. quote: Berlin (AFP) - Germany's new energy minister has outlined cuts in subsidies to producers of renewable energy as the country wrestles with soaring costs from its nuclear power exit, according to a document obtained by AFP Sunday Why must you lie at every opportunity? What was the lie? Apparently, cost of energy rose due to shuttering the nuclear plants. That's right, isn't it? Subsidies to alternative energy were cut to deal with that rise in costs. Seems to me, when the cost of energy rises, the subsidies to alternative energy are no longer sustainable at their previous level. It looks like analyses of the OP may have been jaded. Oh FFS....... Read what was posted in the link. Ken has even played nicely and quoted it for you.

Lucylastic -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 3:46:20 AM)
The word unsustainable maybe....

DesideriScuri -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 3:56:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic The word unsustainable maybe.... How was that the lie? If they were sustainable, why were the cut? Note that I'm not saying that Germany has decided that green energy is worthless. The subsidies were cut because they weren't sustainable, considering everything that is going on.

Lucylastic -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 3:59:48 AM)
The cost of the actual closing is the reason, not because they were unsustainable. weve had the same issue here with the cost of closing gas plants, first being given a price tag of 30 millionto shut it, is now going to cost 950 million. WHere does the money come from to cover it? borrow from peter to pay paul....

DesideriScuri -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 4:06:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic The cost of the actual closing is the reason, not because they were unsustainable. weve had the same issue here with the cost of closing gas plants, first being given a price tag of 30 millionto shut it, is now going to cost 950 million. WHere does the money come from to cover it? borrow from peter to pay paul.... If the subsidies were sustainable, then they would have continued, Lucy. Apparently, the German government decided that, in light of higher energy costs due to the shuttering of the nuke plants, that they could no longer sustain the subsidies at the current level (iow, they were unsustainable). For some kooky reason, Germany seems to think that increased costs in one area means that costs in other areas need to be reduced to cover. Completely un-American, as US politicians prove time and time again. [:D]

joether -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 4:11:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic The word unsustainable maybe.... How was that the lie? If they were sustainable, why were the cut? Note that I'm not saying that Germany has decided that green energy is worthless. The subsidies were cut because they weren't sustainable, considering everything that is going on. Politics. Seems Germany has a fair number of both nuclear plants and fault zones. Taking into consideration of a certain nuclear plant melting down in Russia in 1980's and one just recently in Japan; The Germans are taking steps towards other forms of energy production. The most common of these are the renewable types of energy production. While the fault lines in that country are stable (knock on wood here), the politics are not. Frankly its a good idea for a country to have several ways to produce energy and not 'throw all its eggs in one basket'. A certain poster, DS, enjoys attacking the USA President on stuff, regardless of how petty or irrelevant it is to the Obama Administration. That might be were the 'lies' you asked earlier originates. Maybe 'lies' is not the right word, where as 'dishonest and loose with the facts' might fit better. Its been observed that while nuclear energy provides a cheap source of energy production. Its how one handles the spent nuclear afterward. Housing it in a facility that must be as well guard as the nuclear plant itself costs a bundle of money. Were as 'green energies' are a high up-front cost it provides a good source of energy over a length of time without very deep environmental problems. The question is "How does a country (i.e. Germany) handle their current and future energy needs with limited resources? Do they take the cheaper start up cost but heavy long term problems of nuclear energy? Or the high start up costs but long term low maintenance of renewable energies? That by itself is a heavy debate to undergo in all honestly.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 4:36:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic The word unsustainable maybe.... How was that the lie? If they were sustainable, why were the cut? Note that I'm not saying that Germany has decided that green energy is worthless. The subsidies were cut because they weren't sustainable, considering everything that is going on. Politics. Seems Germany has a fair number of both nuclear plants and fault zones. Taking into consideration of a certain nuclear plant melting down in Russia in 1980's and one just recently in Japan; The Germans are taking steps towards other forms of energy production. The most common of these are the renewable types of energy production. While the fault lines in that country are stable (knock on wood here), the politics are not. Frankly its a good idea for a country to have several ways to produce energy and not 'throw all its eggs in one basket'. A certain poster, DS, enjoys attacking the USA President on stuff, regardless of how petty or irrelevant it is to the Obama Administration. That might be were the 'lies' you asked earlier originates. Maybe 'lies' is not the right word, where as 'dishonest and loose with the facts' might fit better. Its been observed that while nuclear energy provides a cheap source of energy production. Its how one handles the spent nuclear afterward. Housing it in a facility that must be as well guard as the nuclear plant itself costs a bundle of money. Were as 'green energies' are a high up-front cost it provides a good source of energy over a length of time without very deep environmental problems. The question is "How does a country (i.e. Germany) handle their current and future energy needs with limited resources? Do they take the cheaper start up cost but heavy long term problems of nuclear energy? Or the high start up costs but long term low maintenance of renewable energies? That by itself is a heavy debate to undergo in all honestly. I think you may have missed the subject of my question. Allow me to rephrase and clarify. If ~~they~~ the subsidies were sustainable, why were they cut?

Lucylastic -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 4:48:42 AM)
Producers would also gradually be forced to sell green energy competitively on the market from next year rather than enjoying priority treatment with guaranteed prices. Europe's top economy aims to have 80 percent of its electricity consumption sourced by renewable forms of energy by 2050, compared with 25 percent currently. so yes, unsustainable is NOT the word...

MrBukani -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 4:50:40 AM)
Why worry about it? Solar energy is developing so fast, cost is reducing drastically. When people start buying solarpanels big time, energy will be virtually free. I already got my solarpanel. How about you? Or maybe you're still a stinky loving oilguzzler?[:D] reply wasn't personal to desi just a question in general to y'all.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 4:51:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Producers would also gradually be forced to sell green energy competitively on the market from next year rather than enjoying priority treatment with guaranteed prices. Europe's top economy aims to have 80 percent of its electricity consumption sourced by renewable forms of energy by 2050, compared with 25 percent currently. so yes, unsustainable is NOT the word... No, Lucy, the subsidies aren't sustainable. The energy source may be, but the subsidies are not, which is exactly what was stated in the OP.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 4:53:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani Why worry about it? Solar energy is developing so fast, cost is reducing drastically. When people start buying solarpanels big time, energy will be virtually free. I already got my solarpanel. How about you? Or maybe you're still a stinky loving oilguzzler?[:D] I'm not worried at all. I do not have a solar panel yet. I'm looking towards a geothermal HVAC system, likely this Spring or Summer. I'm into vertical axis wind turbine research, too. But, I'm just a "oilguzzler." [8\|]

mnottertail -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 5:38:43 AM)
This is great news, the 'infant' green energy market in Germany is already so fantastic that they can now dispense with subsidies, something they have yet to have been able to do with coal and oil in America after hundreds of years. I bet Germany doesn't stand by while China dumps on their market the way the nutsackers do here at home.

Tkman117 -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 7:29:32 AM)
FR The OP is technically correct that the subsidies for NUCLEAR are unsustainable, but not to ALL green energy technologies. joether was correct in stating that it takes a lot of money to run and maintain nuclear plants. But there is the issue of the waste after the fact. To me Nuclear is not green, it is very toxic and dangerous. Just because it doesn't spit CO2 into the atmosphere doesn't make it green. If a energy producing method has the potential to harm both human life and nature, then it is not green, no matter how safe you try to make it. But that is just my opinion on the matter. Not to mention nuclear, like fossil fuels, are unsustainable in the long run because we would eventually run out of the fuel needed to generate the fission reactions. But, the OP clearly said that Green Energies are being cut, what he left out was that it was due to Nuclear that this is happening. I could also contradict his initial article by doing a quick google news search on Green Energies, and finding this article about 2-3 links down the page. http://gulfbusiness.com/2014/01/mena-green-energy-rise/#.Ut1AbHn0A1g The OP didn't lie, but he did conveniently leave out important details in order to deceive others. Which is usually a common tactic spread by the extreme right wing conservatives.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 7:44:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 FR The OP is technically correct that the subsidies for NUCLEAR are unsustainable, but not to ALL green energy technologies. joether was correct in stating that it takes a lot of money to run and maintain nuclear plants. But there is the issue of the waste after the fact. To me Nuclear is not green, it is very toxic and dangerous. Just because it doesn't spit CO2 into the atmosphere doesn't make it green. If a energy producing method has the potential to harm both human life and nature, then it is not green, no matter how safe you try to make it. But that is just my opinion on the matter. Not to mention nuclear, like fossil fuels, are unsustainable in the long run because we would eventually run out of the fuel needed to generate the fission reactions. But, the OP clearly said Green Energy subsidies were cut. This is the dishonesty that the OP is spreading. He is cherry picking the fact that subsidies are being cut in one country in order to further his agenda. I could also contradict his initial article by doing a quick google news search on Green Energies, and finding this article about 2-3 links down the page. http://gulfbusiness.com/2014/01/mena-green-energy-rise/#.Ut1AbHn0A1g The OP didn't lie, but he did conveniently leave out important details in order to deceive others. Which is usually a common tactic spread by the extreme right wing conservatives. The OP had nothing to do with subsidies to nuke power. Power costs have gone up since they've started taking down their nuke plants. Nuke power is pretty cheap, outside of spent rod storage. Green energy subsidies were cut. They were cut, as Lucy pointed out, to pay for the increase in power costs.

mnottertail -> RE: Germany cutting Green Energy subsidies (1/20/2014 7:59:09 AM)
Still not correct, no subsidies have been cut, it is in the talking stage. Wind will still get subsidies if this plan goes forward with biogas dropped out of subsidy.

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