RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state

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TheHeretic -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/27/2014 6:58:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic What I find troubling is the wife's relationship to the gun. If there is a gun in the home, then basic safety dictates that she know how to safely handle it, and whether or not it is present on a long journey. Going over the Tampa Tribune article the guy keeps it locked in a safe when he's not carrying it. And that is a good practice, but it doesn't alter the fact that if there are guns in a household, all the responsible adults should at least be able to safely handle the weapon (that doesn't mean use it) in the event of an emergency, and should know if it is even in the car on a road trip. What if her husband was stricken with a sudden illness or something? My wife is fine with guns (and a damn good shot), but when we reached the point in the relationship where I was leaving her at my place when I left for work in the morning, she got a quick lesson on the shotgun that was kept loaded by the front door. She hates shooting the thing because of the kick, but she damn well knows how it works, where the safety is, and how to unload it.

MsMJAY -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 4:51:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY You may be seeing what I put on the screen but you are only perceiving and understanding it through your own narrow point of view. The narrow point of view is the one you are seeing the world from. Name this tune: They said it was for the black man, They said it was for the Mexican And not for the white man But if you look at the street, it wasn't about Rodney King It's this fucked-up situation and these fucked-up police It's about coming up and staying on top And screaming 187 on a motherfuckin' cop If one man's rights are violated everyone's are compromised. This was the point I was originally making. That in allowing cops to do this unchecked for so many years in certain segments of society, it set precedents in place so that now everyone can be victimized. Most of this behavior has now been codified into state and local laws and sanctioned by court cases (Terry v Ohio, Illinois vs Caballes, NY vs Belton). Cops know what these cases are and what they mean. Citizens should know them too. People think that it only happens once in a while but these practices are routine and pretty standard behavior in most Departments. You only hear about it when it goes really bad or if the person is of a high social status, but it is happening all the time. At: TheHeretic -Sublime can't sing. Now, Brad Paisley? That boy can sang!

DomKen -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 6:29:46 AM)
And sometimes this is what "self defense" looks like http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/UPDATE-Two-Men-Shot-to-Death-by-Homeowner-in-Barboursville-241973841.html

Lucylastic -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 7:37:47 AM)
Another responsible gun owner says, "Whoops".

BamaD -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 8:02:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And sometimes this is what "self defense" looks like http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/UPDATE-Two-Men-Shot-to-Death-by-Homeowner-in-Barboursville-241973841.html No that was not self defense by anyone's standard that I know of.

DominantWoman65 -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 8:08:57 AM)
That wasn't a responsible gun owner nor was it self defense. That was just cold blooded murder.

GotSteel -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 8:16:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic And that is a good practice, but it doesn't alter the fact that if there are guns in a household, all the responsible adults should at least be able to safely handle the weapon (that doesn't mean use it) in the event of an emergency, Why? The guy got the gun specifically to transport cash related to his work, if the wife is too submissive or fearful to deal with it (which it sounds like) why should she be forced to? It does bother me that she isn't familiar with how he's keeping the gun and is under the impression that it could potentially be floating around the car somewhere with the kids (but that's a seperate issue). quote]ORIGINAL: TheHeretic My wife is fine with guns (and a damn good shot), but when we reached the point in the relationship where I was leaving her at my place when I left for work in the morning, she got a quick lesson on the shotgun that was kept loaded by the front door. She hates shooting the thing because of the kick, but she damn well knows how it works, where the safety is, and how to unload it. Well if you're going to leave a loaded gun by the door (which also is kind of dangerous in that it's potentially much closer to someone invading your home than it is to you) then she'd better have some basic ability to interact with it. But wouldn't putting it in a gun safe before you left also be a reasonable alternative?

GotSteel -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 8:19:14 AM)
Stand your tool shed!

MsMJAY -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 9:34:19 AM)
Once you codify a certain behavior in laws and set precedent for that behavior in court cases you end up with a lot of idiots using that law to victimize others. (Its the same for cops, its the same for private citizens). Has anyone else noticed that lately this type of foolishness seems to be happening more and more frequently. And there are a lot of people who believe that if it had actually been this idiot's shed, that would have made it ok to kill 2 people. Welcome to the world we are creating. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And sometimes this is what "self defense" looks like http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/UPDATE-Two-Men-Shot-to-Death-by-Homeowner-in-Barboursville-241973841.html

BamaD -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 10:20:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 That wasn't a responsible gun owner nor was it self defense. That was just cold blooded murder. Agreed

BamaD -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 10:23:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY Once you codify a certain behavior in laws and set precedent for that behavior in court cases you end up with a lot of idiots using that law to victimize others. (Its the same for cops, its the same for private citizens). Has anyone else noticed that lately this type of foolishness seems to be happening more and more frequently. And there are a lot of people who believe that if it had actually been this idiot's shed, that would have made it ok to kill 2 people. Welcome to the world we are creating. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And sometimes this is what "self defense" looks like http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/UPDATE-Two-Men-Shot-to-Death-by-Homeowner-in-Barboursville-241973841.html Since he ignored laws as they stand he would have done it anyway. There is no law that justifies this.

MsMJAY -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 10:26:22 AM)
If it had actually been his shed, would it have then been legally justified?

BamaD -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 10:33:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMJAY If it had actually been his shed, would it have then been legally justified? He would have had to order them to leave, justification would depend on their reaction. Even under castle law you couldn't do this. So that would be no.

truckinslave -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 11:16:08 AM)
How on earth could anyone confuse that with self defense?

truckinslave -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 11:18:26 AM)
quote: Once you codify a certain behavior in laws and set precedent for that behavior in court cases you end up with a lot of idiots using that law to victimize others. The shooter in the Barboursville incident relied upon neither law nor precedent.

joether -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 11:20:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 That wasn't a responsible gun owner nor was it self defense. That was just cold blooded murder. Actually, until he's convicted in court by his peers he's STILL an 'honest and law abiding citizen'. The mere nanosecond before he fired the first round, he was an 'honest and law abiding citizen'. After the two men were dead on the ground, shot in the backs without warning, the shooter was 'an honest and law abiding citizen'. In fact the only reason the guy had a gun in the first place was because someone somewhere thought he was responsible with a firearm. There are no laws I'm aware of that allow routine checks on someone's property to see if they are being responsible with their firearms. The guy used the firearm in the belief of self defense. Unfortunately for him, his misunderstanding of 'self defense' will place him in prison. He could have called the police, keeping the firearm on his person should they try to attack him (that would be self defense). Society assumed incorrectly that he was responsible with a firearm. Society does that through the laws of the land. West Virginia's laws, for better or worst, allowed that to happen and so must also deal with the consequences. It really is a very tragic set of events all around for all three individuals.

BamaD -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 11:22:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 That wasn't a responsible gun owner nor was it self defense. That was just cold blooded murder. Actually, until he's convicted in court by his peers he's STILL an 'honest and law abiding citizen'. The mere nanosecond before he fired the first round, he was an 'honest and law abiding citizen'. After the two men were dead on the ground, shot in the backs without warning, the shooter was 'an honest and law abiding citizen'. In fact the only reason the guy had a gun in the first place was because someone somewhere thought he was responsible with a firearm. There are no laws I'm aware of that allow routine checks on someone's property to see if they are being responsible with their firearms. The guy used the firearm in the belief of self defense. Unfortunately for him, his misunderstanding of 'self defense' will place him in prison. He could have called the police, keeping the firearm on his person should they try to attack him (that would be self defense). Society assumed incorrectly that he was responsible with a firearm. Society does that through the laws of the land. West Virginia's laws, for better or worst, allowed that to happen and so must also deal with the consequences. It really is a very tragic set of events all around for all three individuals. An absurd assessment of the facts. innocent until proven guilty true Everything else is an antigun nut rant.

joether -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 11:29:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave How on earth could anyone confuse that with self defense? That's what many ask when stuff like this happens and the NRA-brigade of mindless 'fanboys' roll into the forums to defend a fellow gun owner from the evil government. In this case, it seems the reporter actually did some good journalism and got the facts correct in the matter.

joether -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 11:41:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65 That wasn't a responsible gun owner nor was it self defense. That was just cold blooded murder. Actually, until he's convicted in court by his peers he's STILL an 'honest and law abiding citizen'. The mere nanosecond before he fired the first round, he was an 'honest and law abiding citizen'. After the two men were dead on the ground, shot in the backs without warning, the shooter was 'an honest and law abiding citizen'. In fact the only reason the guy had a gun in the first place was because someone somewhere thought he was responsible with a firearm. There are no laws I'm aware of that allow routine checks on someone's property to see if they are being responsible with their firearms. The guy used the firearm in the belief of self defense. Unfortunately for him, his misunderstanding of 'self defense' will place him in prison. He could have called the police, keeping the firearm on his person should they try to attack him (that would be self defense). Society assumed incorrectly that he was responsible with a firearm. Society does that through the laws of the land. West Virginia's laws, for better or worst, allowed that to happen and so must also deal with the consequences. It really is a very tragic set of events all around for all three individuals. An absurd assessment of the facts. innocent until proven guilty true Everything else is an antigun nut rant. The mantra 'honest and law abiding citizen' comes directly out of gun-nut literature for the past few decades! Or do you wish to present an argument that thus denies both reality and US History? The NRA has been one to promote that mantra for political purposes. The guy has several options but unfortunately picked one of the bad decisions. An he'll have to go to court due to it. An I hope he has a fair trial if he presents the attitude he's not guilty.

lovmuffin -> RE: N C home invasion shows that NC is civilized state (1/28/2014 11:52:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave How on earth could anyone confuse that with self defense? That's what many ask when stuff like this happens and the NRA-brigade of mindless 'fanboys' roll into the forums to defend a fellow gun owner from the evil government. In this case, it seems the reporter actually did some good journalism and got the facts correct in the matter. Nobody is defending that. It's when something like the Zimmerman thing happens. The race baiters come out of the woodwork, major news networks present altered evidence to the general public (why did journalists deliberately get those facts wrong), anti gun idiots start bantering and ballyhooing about stand your ground laws even though it's not a SYG case and Zimmerman gets convicted in the court of public opinion by people making shit up to fit their own neat little scenarios and by gun haters who don't like people packin heat, all of that over a freak of nature.

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