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Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/5/2014 9:12:39 PM

asanaambitions

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/26/2013
Status: offline

I have a query, mostly for those who are interested in submitting to female dominants but of course all viewpoints are welcome.

I'm finding a rather strange phenomenon as I'm speaking with (primarily) male submissives on this site, and that is that many of them get very uptight, offended and even rude when I show that I have intelligence and strength of character. This to me seems pretty counterintuitive, since you'd think that you'd want to submit to someone who you respect, admire or perhaps even feel is "better" than you in some way (not claiming to be better than anyone, just throwing ideas out there). I do understand that I have a somewhat abrasive personality and that my brusquness doesn't always translate well over text, but I admit that I still find it very shocking when these men behave like a petulant 5 year old because I dared to show that I actually have a brain. I am never rude or insulting or demeaning, I don't act like a screaming harpy intent on crushing these men beneath my boots (....maybe I should?). Is it because I'm ruining some sort of fantasy? Do submissive men really want a bubble headed bimbo in latex who never challenges them but just screams random insults while brandishing a flogger? Help me out peeps, what am I missing here?

Post #: 1

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/5/2014 9:20:35 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

To answer the question in your title, smart, strong women are hot as fuck.

About the questions in your post, it's hard for me to say anything useful with no details (and not requesting any), but I think most "submissive" men online are manipulative. If you aren't allowing yourself to be manipulated, you'll cause some tantrums.

My suggestion: keep on keeping on. Including on vanilla sites. Someone will love your unvarnished personality.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to asanaambitions)

Post #: 2

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/5/2014 9:21:37 PM

asyouwish72

Posts: 69
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline

Sorry to hear your experiences have not been positive. I suspect a lot of people here are thinking 'fantasy' on some level but get intimidated and defensive by the reality they encounter.

I don't see how a 'bubble-headed bimbo' could ever *be* a convincing dominant. I can't see how that would work... If I have to point out your errors and thoughtlessness all the time, how can I possibly be submissive to you? I'd be constantly wondering what sort of trouble I'd be led into.

Of course, I ended up married to a PhD in physics and am as happy now as I've ever been... so yeah, there are guys (even ones with submissive tendencies) who really do appreciate brains.

(in reply to asanaambitions)

Post #: 3

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/5/2014 9:26:27 PM

SlaveOh

Posts: 28
Joined: 1/7/2014
Status: offline

Hi Asanaambitions,

I'm a submissive female myself, but I agree with you. When I've chatted to some dominant men on this site, they seem to be appalled at the fact I identify as a feminist. One would think a strong character would be wanted not only in BDSM but in life in general.

(in reply to asyouwish72)

Post #: 4

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/5/2014 9:31:42 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I find most men feel challenged by very bright women.
Regardless of personality.

As far as the so-called submissive men online go, most of them aren't submissive. They want their kinky fantasies totally catered to by a hot woman who gets off on giving them exactly what they want. Not in handing over any authority.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 2/5/2014 9:33:47 PM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

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Post #: 5

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/5/2014 9:36:16 PM

asanaambitions

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/26/2013
Status: offline

I guess I just have a habit of bursting people's fantasy bubbles. It's not just the guys who show up in my inbox and act like relationships should mirror porn who end up getting cranky with me, but also guys who start interesting topics and then become furious when I demonstrate that I know more about what they're talking about than they do. I even had one "gentleman" today try to tell me that because I chose cooking as a career that I couldn't possibly have any insight into the sociology behind capitalism and the free market. To be fair I think the fact that I could even *spell* sociology made him incredibly angry for some reason and I was subject to a torrent of verbal abuse before he blocked me. I really do want to understand the male gender, but sometimes I'm left staring at my computer screen wondering how anyone could possibly entertain such cognitive dissonance within themselves. (I'm sure men feel the same about women, I just have very little experience in that arena)

(in reply to asyouwish72)

Post #: 6

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/5/2014 9:55:38 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

I don't know. I don't see myself as strong or smart. I see myself as a pretty average woman...no more or less smarter or stronger than the next person. In fact, I don't identify as strong really much at all and imo, strong and smart have become so cliche these days with women in bdsm it seems to me. No one ever admits that they can be weak or not as smart as they wish they were. It's become almost bragging rights or something it seems with many women these days.

So you have two types of men out there imo.

1. Those who are new and are afraid of women in general so they need to find one who is naive and gullible to take advantage of her.
2. Men who get tired of the strong and smart call of the wild. They feel like the women are trying to challenge them or just make it difficult to even get to know her.

So my advice is to ask yourself, which one are you and which one are they that you are talking to?

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to asanaambitions)

Post #: 7

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/5/2014 10:13:50 PM

asanaambitions

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/26/2013
Status: offline

Fair enough, I certainly understand your point. My difficulty with language is that I can never quite express what's in my head, so in trying to do so I can often slip into tropes or stereotypes. As I said I don't consider myself to be better than anyone else, more that when I demonstrate any sort of intelligence that it seems to put many of the men who message me off. I brought it to the forums because I've really enjoyed reading the posts and I respect the views of (well, most) of the people who tend to contribute here. You make a very good point when you said "Men who get tired of the strong and smart call of the wild. They feel like the women are trying to challenge them or just make it difficult to even get to know her." I have been aware for quite some time that my reserved nature and rather dry sense of humor is offputting to some people, so perhaps there's also an element of men feeling like I'm trying to be "difficult" in order to test them. Not that I think I should change my way of being to placate strangers, but there's always room for improvement and I'm sure my social skills could use some tweaking. Thank you :)

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 8

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/5/2014 10:13:58 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

I have found that in the business world, men do not take aesthetically attractive women seriously intellectually. A lot of times they try to treat you like a stupid child (this was especially when I was younger). It may be a form of sexism/ageism. For some reason, a woman disagreeing with them is so emasculating they freak out. No kidding, I even had a sub who did that. It was the most amazing thing to see how upset he would get and start googling his little heart away, LOL. Not that it ever stopped me from speaking my mind. :)
I remember at the end of 2008 I was asked to pick a stock and well, any stock was a winner but I picked Caterpillar. It septupled in two years. But February 2009 my friend called me. Caterpillar went from $28 to $22 per share. So he was taunting me (He is a lifetime investor). He still says "the last thing she told me is to invest in Caterpillar" LOL.
Personal experience, I have only had one man admit I was smarter than him and we had a lovely vanilla relationship. :)
PS: I'm also pretty strong, (well my legs are) and it intimidated my small asian friend because she's 5'1 and I'm 5'9. I was bulkier then though, I'm pretty slim though I legpress more than really muscular girls but it's not intimidating. Subs, YES, they are always feigning/are intimidated. :)

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 2/5/2014 10:20:32 PM >

_____________________________

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The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 9

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/5/2014 11:03:41 PM

orgasmdenial12

Posts: 613
Joined: 9/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: asanaambitions
I even had one "gentleman" today try to tell me that because I chose cooking as a career that I couldn't possibly have any insight into the sociology behind capitalism and the free market. To be fair I think the fact that I could even *spell* sociology made him incredibly angry for some reason and I was subject to a torrent of verbal abuse before he blocked me. I really do want to understand the male gender, but sometimes I'm left staring at my computer screen wondering how anyone could possibly entertain such cognitive dissonance within themselves.

Perhaps your sociology credentials would be more convincing if you weren't suggesting some sort of gender essentialism here.

(in reply to asanaambitions)

Post #: 10

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/5/2014 11:49:06 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I don't know. I don't see myself as strong or smart. I see myself as a pretty average woman...no more or less smarter or stronger than the next person. In fact, I don't identify as strong really much at all and imo, strong and smart have become so cliche these days with women in bdsm it seems to me. No one ever admits that they can be weak or not as smart as they wish they were. It's become almost bragging rights or something it seems with many women these days.

So you have two types of men out there imo.

1. Those who are new and are afraid of women in general so they need to find one who is naive and gullible to take advantage of her.
2. Men who get tired of the strong and smart call of the wild. They feel like the women are trying to challenge them or just make it difficult to even get to know her.

So my advice is to ask yourself, which one are you and which one are they that you are talking to?

I consider myself strong and smart, but I don't see it as trying to challenge men or make it difficult to know me.

I am just being myself at all times. Why would I try and dumb myself down or manufacture some challenge?

I don't agree that you need to cater to someone who feels threatened by brains.

Just find someone who likes intelligence and strength.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 11

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/6/2014 4:01:55 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: asanaambitions

I guess I just have a habit of bursting people's fantasy bubbles. It's not just the guys who show up in my inbox and act like relationships should mirror porn who end up getting cranky with me, but also guys who start interesting topics and then become furious when I demonstrate that I know more about what they're talking about than they do. I even had one "gentleman" today try to tell me that because I chose cooking as a career that I couldn't possibly have any insight into the sociology behind capitalism and the free market. To be fair I think the fact that I could even *spell* sociology made him incredibly angry for some reason and I was subject to a torrent of verbal abuse before he blocked me. I really do want to understand the male gender, but sometimes I'm left staring at my computer screen wondering how anyone could possibly entertain such cognitive dissonance within themselves. (I'm sure men feel the same about women, I just have very little experience in that arena)

Okay. You're misdiagnosed the problem. You're asking what's wrong with the men themselves. Nothing whatsoever - to misquote Jesus, "The morons will always be with you." The problem is that you're getting into conversations with idiots without realizing it. Your idiotdar is broken.

The big suggestion I'd make for you is to change your avatar pic. If you want to have conversations with men who value your mind, replace that pic with one of you reading, your face unseeable because it's in a book. Or simply one of your bookshelf. Right now, your avatar looks just like a pegging video that some HNG saw, and he will expect you to act like like the Dominatrix in that video. You're attracting idiots.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to asanaambitions)

Post #: 12

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/6/2014 4:15:08 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

Both Des and Dark Steven made some excellent points.

Here's my five cents (inflation):

Many men *say* they want a strong, smart, female, very few actually want one. Most, regardless of their orientation, are intimidated by someone they view as stronger or more intelligent. For 20 years I was married to someone who was so intimidated by my intelligence that he became manipulative and abusive and let's not forget extremely passive-aggressive. Don't make my mistake.

Some men will be challenged, a rare few intrigued. Definitely go by what they do, not what they say, and make sure you take the time to really get to know them well. Sometimes this sort of thing doesn't come out in the beginning of a relationship.

_____________________________

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 13

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/6/2014 4:46:54 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: asanaambitions
I even had one "gentleman" today try to tell me that because I chose cooking as a career that I couldn't possibly have any insight into the sociology behind capitalism and the free market.

That's someone without much life experience. A friend of mine graduated from the California Culinary Academy. About a year later, she said, "I am sick and tired of working as someone else's slave for shit money." So she became a computer programmer and started making a comfortable living. Or you know the blind cook Christine Ha? She has a master's degree and is an award-winning author for non-cooking things she's written. And I doubt many guys would kick her out of bed -- at least until she started talking and made them feel stupid, ha!

There are some very intelligent, well-educated women who love to cook.

I do think GoddessManko has a point that men subconsciously lower their expectations of a woman's intelligence if she's more physically attractive. Are you seeing more of this since you put up your current main pic? I love the photo, as you know, but maybe something less "physical" would be more in your interest.

Finally, I suppose it's possible that you're being a horrendous bitch to these guys in your emails, and you're blind to how socially incompetent you are. But, even if that's true, it's no reason for a man to subject you to a torrent of abuse. If I were emailing with a woman, and she said things that offended me, I either wouldn't respond, or I'd write something like, "If you can say such bitter things when we are just emailing each other, I have no desire to find out what you might say to me if we're in a relationship and you're angry." And I'd move on. Point being: even if you're doing something wrong somewhere along the line, I think it's just as well that none of those guys has a chance to be in your life.

< Message edited by RedMagic1 -- 2/6/2014 4:48:22 AM >

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to asanaambitions)

Post #: 14

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/6/2014 5:02:18 AM

thezeppo

Posts: 441
Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline

FR

I would venture that the behaviours are more representative of people on the internet rather than as a preserve of male submissives. You have spoken to more than me though, I'm willing to be corrected :p

I do agree that it seems counterintuitive for a sub to dislike strength and intelligence in a Domme, so I guess either they have deeper issues regarding self-esteem, or they had a fantastical idea of how a conversation with a Domme should go. That being said, I'm not sure I agree with you about a sub wanting someone 'better' (I understand you didn't mean it like that). To submit to someone I think I would need to have a lot of respect for their intellect and their opinions, but in a perfect relationship there would be a certain amount of reciprocation as well.

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 15

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/6/2014 5:07:02 AM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline

fr

I wonder if these people are actually angered by your intelligence, or just by the fact that you aren't immediately acting out their fantasies. The internet has a lot of fantasists. I dare say you could be dumb as a rock and they would still be annoyed that you weren't behaving the way their favourite porno suggested you should.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to thezeppo)

Post #: 16

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/6/2014 5:17:44 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

The other thing is that you should be glad these guys are showing their true colors this quickly. Because you don't want every guy out there, you want the one who thinks a smart woman is hot.

And yes, I agree with Red Magic about your avatar. Not that any femdomme profile doesn't attract porn only types who expect you to live out their fantasies, but that pic attracts only those types.

Beyond that, why are you only talking to men who contact you first. Why aren't you reading profiles of guys in your area and you contacting the few whose profiles do attract you.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 17

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/6/2014 5:20:15 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: asanaambitions

I guess I just have a habit of bursting people's fantasy bubbles. It's not just the guys who show up in my inbox and act like relationships should mirror porn who end up getting cranky with me, but also guys who start interesting topics and then become furious when I demonstrate that I know more about what they're talking about than they do. I even had one "gentleman" today try to tell me that because I chose cooking as a career that I couldn't possibly have any insight into the sociology behind capitalism and the free market. To be fair I think the fact that I could even *spell* sociology made him incredibly angry for some reason and I was subject to a torrent of verbal abuse before he blocked me. I really do want to understand the male gender, but sometimes I'm left staring at my computer screen wondering how anyone could possibly entertain such cognitive dissonance within themselves. (I'm sure men feel the same about women, I just have very little experience in that arena)

Okay. You're misdiagnosed the problem. You're asking what's wrong with the men themselves. Nothing whatsoever - to misquote Jesus, "The morons will always be with you." The problem is that you're getting into conversations with idiots without realizing it. Your idiotdar is broken.

The big suggestion I'd make for you is to change your avatar pic. If you want to have conversations with men who value your mind, replace that pic with one of you reading, your face unseeable because it's in a book. Or simply one of your bookshelf. Right now, your avatar looks just like a pegging video that some HNG saw, and he will expect you to act like like the Dominatrix in that video. You're attracting idiots.

This pretty much sums up what I was going to say. If I am looking for a strong intelligent women I am going to look for a women who presents herself as strong as intelligent. Not someone who thinks the best first impression is them standing there with their dick hanging out. I am always amazed at some of the pics I see as primary photos for fem dommes.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 18

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/6/2014 5:24:27 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

Quiet attractive librarian lady. Or hot bimbo blond girl.. I will take the Lady every time

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to asanaambitions)

Post #: 19

RE: Are strong, smart women not desirable? - 2/6/2014 5:39:19 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

The problem is that you're getting into conversations with idiots without realizing it. Your idiotdar is broken.

The big suggestion I'd make for you is to change your avatar pic. If you want to have conversations with men who value your mind, replace that pic with one of you reading, your face unseeable because it's in a book. Or simply one of your bookshelf. Right now, your avatar looks just like a pegging video that some HNG saw, and he will expect you to act like like the Dominatrix in that video. You're attracting idiots.

Great advice!

OP - I was told I'd "have better luck if you dumb it down." I'm glad I didn't settle.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 20

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