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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 1:12:03 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman
Another tangent one could presume is 'they' were 'us' instead. Perhaps, once upon a time, humanity had created another technologically advanced cosmopolitan civilization and managed to blow themselves 'back' into the Stone Age so effectively little to nothing remains to this day. I can't remember where I heard this, but myths are often history corrupted by time and retelling, or something along those lines.

Terry Brooks' The Sword Of Shannara, and a lot of other '70s science fantasy.
For some reason the idea that we'd dust ourselves down and wipe out cibilisation was big back then, but some were optimistic enough to think that we might eventually recover and then there'd be elves and stuff as well. Almost heartening, I suppose.
I'd be interested to know what the first exemplar or this school of SF is: I'm assuming it must go back a lot further than Alas Babylon and A Canticle For Leibowitz...

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 1:18:29 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Sorry, come back with hypotheses by geneticists, not accountants and orthopedists, and I'll bother to take a look.

The science of genetics is only about 144 years old the human genome research much more recent than that. Thus, we are only beginning this research. Plus a Dr. of Orthopedics has as much right to comment on the evolution of man's orthopedic structure as any and is as valid as any and for the same reasons.

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 1:22:06 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Sorry, come back with hypotheses by geneticists, not accountants and orthopedists, and I'll bother to take a look.

The science of genetics is only about 144 years old the human genome research much more recent than that. Thus, we are only beginning this research. Plus a Dr. of Orthopedics has as much right to comment on the evolution of man's orthopedic structure as any and is as valid as any and for the same reasons.

How about a swiss hotel manager, then?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 1:37:05 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Bullshit.

There was nothing sudden about our emergence from H erectus, there were several species in between. So that is just plain made up.

Junk DNA, more properly called noncoding regions, are found in all species so if aliens manipulated humans they also manipulated amoebas and puffer fish which have much more junk DNA than humans.

As to pelvic evolution we have the other primates and apes. Are they quadrupeds or bipeds? Most can walk in both postures. BTW we are so genetically close to chimpanzees it would be difficult to tell our genomes apart.

If your scientific illiteracy is this vast I urge you to learn about these subject in legit sources. It is fascinating stuff. You'll learn reality.

There still is that 'missing link' and it still is...missing. If you wish to believe modern religious mythology, fine. I prefer to keep my open mind...wide open. Can you for example, identify all of those species between say 4-6 million years ago and 184,000 years ago ?

Plus don't forget, much of what Alford's book is based on is information just recently researched and there are several books disallowed into the bible plus that fact that many govts. around world have an interest in the status quo.

The relationship between the respective genetic make up of humans vs other animal species is not up for discussion because the disputation of which...is irrelevant.

The missing link is nonsense. Every time a "missing link" is found two new ones can be pointed to.

I have no idea about anything in Alford's book. What you presented was complete bunk. For instance the claim that H sapiens emerged directly from H erectus. As to genetics, you brought it up and you cannot run away from the claim simply because it turns out the claim is full of shit.

Not only does every chart show H ercetus going to (in millions of years) Neanderthal and CroMagnon but then to what ? The last on the chart...US or H Sapien.

But neither you or conventional science has proven where the leap of knowledge took place. Even Darwin said the fossil record in incomplete. It is precisely because and irrespective of any absolute transitional fossil record that science cannot explain intellect and that there has been no explanation for that after millions of years and at about 184,000 years ago, man began to acquire knowledge (increase in the size of the brain and language) anything even similar to that and what is suggested, is the very basis of the knowledge man has now.

Every chart does not show that.
This is more or less the modern view
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Humanevolutionchart.png

Darwin was working more than 150 years ago. Of course his knowledge of human evolution was far more incomplete than is ours is.

There is nothing special about 184k years. That is just more nonsense from this guy's book. Brain size, tool sophistication and other markers for intelligence have been improving in the hominid line for millions of years. Like I told you previously try learning about th subject from mainstream sources.

Look, we can both dual with our Googling but for you also a non-scientist to make such proclamations means nothing. What current science does, is to take what we know now and extrapolate backwards. Thus the explanation is that since man was bipedal 4-6 million years ago and as recently as 2.3 million years ago and showing the knowledge he displayed say 200,000 years ago, well then, he must have added about 125,000 neurons every generation since.

Everything I research about our current limited knowledge of the human genome and its contribution to our knowledge of human evolution and in all respects...has the words probably, possibly, maybe.

So there is no absolute 21st cent. science that proves Alford's and others research to be incorrect or even implausible.

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 1:40:31 PM   
Moonhead


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Apart from, you know, archeology. You'd think if Alford was onto something, they might have dug up some evidence of alien intervention by now, wouldn't you?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 1:45:04 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

The science of genetics is only about 144 years old


Hmm... I guess it rather depends on how you define a "Science" in the context of this.

People have been managing the evolution of crops by exploiting natural selection for thousands of years.



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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 1:46:36 PM   
ARIES83


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My first thought was... "Rule is a chartered accountant?" Then I realised this book thing came out in 1996...
I wonder if this guy has gotten any royalties from it yet...

For me, that's about as thought provoking as this thing gets...

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530 DAYS

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 1:51:44 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

FR:
Am I the only one who finds all this von Daniken bullshit patronising and offensive?
"Oh, these savages couldn't have achieved this that or t'other on their own: the aliens must have done it for them."
FFS...

Gee, I don't know. If a Jewish person finds it perfectly acceptable to say...date or even have a love interest with a Christian or maybe even a Muslin, would their date or better, their families upon fining out...feel that their relationship patronizing and offensive ? I wouldn't be alone to feel that as compared to us now...ancient man...was savage. OR, at least a bit more savage than we are hey ?

Do you know that ancient man wasn't savage ? Are you aware that while Cro-Magnon fucking Neanderthal may have been the world's first miscegenation, that in the end...CroMagnon wiped out Neanderthal ?

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 1:54:16 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

The science of genetics is only about 144 years old


Hmm... I guess it rather depends on how you define a "Science" in the context of this.

People have been managing the evolution of crops by exploiting natural selection for thousands of years.



Superfluous

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 1:58:20 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Apart from, you know, archeology. You'd think if Alford was onto something, they might have dug up some evidence of alien intervention by now, wouldn't you?

There is fossil evidence that suggests not prove as nobody has proof to confirm either argument, that the Annunakis may have ruled Egypt...look it up. We know they sure did love gold.

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 1:58:32 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

FR:
Am I the only one who finds all this von Daniken bullshit patronising and offensive?
"Oh, these savages couldn't have achieved this that or t'other on their own: the aliens must have done it for them."
FFS...

No, you're not the only one.

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 2:02:54 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
So there is no absolute 21st cent. science that proves Alford's and others research to be incorrect or even implausible.

Actually there is and I presented some of it in my first post in this thread.

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 2:03:09 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

My first thought was... "Rule is a chartered accountant?" Then I realised this book thing came out in 1996...
I wonder if this guy has gotten any royalties from it yet...

For me, that's about as thought provoking as this thing gets...

Well we do know it's always safer to go after the messenger. It's like asking why even bring such a post to such laypeople as I would find here ?

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 2:05:48 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
So there is no absolute 21st cent. science that proves Alford's and others research to be incorrect or even implausible.

Actually there is and I presented some of it in my first post in this thread.

I didn't see any...proof of anything at all in your first post.

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 2:07:15 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Bullshit.

There was nothing sudden about our emergence from H erectus, there were several species in between. So that is just plain made up.

Junk DNA, more properly called noncoding regions, are found in all species so if aliens manipulated humans they also manipulated amoebas and puffer fish which have much more junk DNA than humans.

As to pelvic evolution we have the other primates and apes. Are they quadrupeds or bipeds? Most can walk in both postures. BTW we are so genetically close to chimpanzees it would be difficult to tell our genomes apart.

If your scientific illiteracy is this vast I urge you to learn about these subject in legit sources. It is fascinating stuff. You'll learn reality.

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 2:08:40 PM   
DomKen


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And being incredibly bored being stuck inside on a snowy day and finding crackpot theories hilarious I did a little research.

It turns out even Alan Alford thinks this stuff is nuts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_F._Alford

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 2:10:45 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Apart from, you know, archeology. You'd think if Alford was onto something, they might have dug up some evidence of alien intervention by now, wouldn't you?

There's' plenty of evidence out there and even on evolutionary development prior to Alford's assertions.

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 2:16:38 PM   
RemoteUser


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OP, you are mistaking probability for fact.

The leading argument in most of your statements is that a thing is not known, and numbers are playing a side show. Let's put them to light by quoting Bill Bryson from A Short History of Nearly Everything:

The chances of a 1,055-sequence molecule like collagen spontaneously self-assembling are, frankly, nil. It just isn’t going to happen. To grasp what a long shot its existence is, visualize a standard Las Vegas slot machine but broadened greatly—to about ninety feet, to be precise—to accommodate 1,055 spinning wheels instead of the usual three or four, and with twenty symbols on each wheel (one for each common amino acid).1

1 There are actually twenty-two naturally occurring amino acids known on Earth, and more may await discovery, but only twenty of them are necessary to produce us and most other living things. The twenty-second, called pyrrolysine, was discovered in 2002 by researchers at Ohio State University and is found only in a single type of archaean (a basic form of life that we will discuss a little further on in the story) called Methanosarcina barkeri.

What Bill is saying here is that the statistical likelihood of life is incredibly low. This is not justification for aliens, any more than it could be said that if I type out 1,055 letters of the alphabet and you guessed the exact order, that aliens gave you the answer. However low the odds, there is a chance you could, in fact, do it.

Now to address what is known and what is not, also through statistics. If a thing is right or wrong, and equal chances are assigned, then by your theory evolution is as likely as aliens. If I tossed a coin, and said while the coin was in midair that heads meant aliens created us, does the coin landing heads up make the statement I made, true? Impartiality can grant equal odds if one ignores any other possible factors, but that's the key, isn't it. What are the odds, and if you claim impartiality, can you create a statistical theoretical model that in fact matches reality? The odds of doing so might be better than Bill's slot machines, but low is low, high is high, and to let one lead to a conclusion destroys any impartiality one might have had.

If you need me, I'm wandering off, calculator in hand.

(edited for a typo, which set off my OCD)

< Message edited by RemoteUser -- 2/8/2014 2:18:51 PM >


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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 2:16:44 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And being incredibly bored being stuck inside on a snowy day and finding crackpot theories hilarious I did a little research.

It turns out even Alan Alford thinks this stuff is nuts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_F._Alford

He had a problem with chapters 6 and 16. Plus, there is copious research into other ancient civilizations and from all over the world, that proclaim to have gained knowledge from ET's...oh I am sorry...Gods. Easier to stick to strictly mysticism.

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RE: Gods of the New Millennium - 2/8/2014 2:19:25 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Apart from, you know, archeology. You'd think if Alford was onto something, they might have dug up some evidence of alien intervention by now, wouldn't you?

There's' plenty of evidence out there and even on evolutionary development prior to Alford's assertions.

The whole von Daniken and aliens have been debunked many times.

There are many websites that debunk him and his followers.
This is just one: http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/tag/erich-von-daniken/

There's NO evidence whatsoever - it's all conjecture and very biased supposition.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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