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Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 5:15:02 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		Do you identify as a Slave?
Why do you see yourself as a slave?
How do you define slavery?

Actual modern slavery as in the types of people that are smuggled/trafficked as a commodity is of course defined by the fact those people are kidnapped or otherwise forced into it. their rights to pursue their own interests are taken from them and they are often kept against their will.

A couple of questions come to mind with this...

If you desire to be kept without rights, is it really slavery in the common sense... you after all aren't being kept against your will, rather your will is that you be kept and to be used etc... you in a sense [I]are[/I] pursuing your interests.

What really is the definition which we see as "slavery" within the BDSM terminology? I lost my manual...

Is it really just Consensual Non-consent. and what is that in your view??

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 5:26:59 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		A regular poster who identified as property once posted "It was her Master's decision whether or not she continue breathing". If I understood her history correctly, she would have internalized her slavery to the bone.

I was just thinking of her the other day and wondering what would happen if he decided she not continue. Would she fight in the end? I'd like to think so. If that's the case, then consensual slavery is an artificial construct.

And to answer the OP, no.

ETA: I haven't seen that property post here in years, by the way.

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 2/15/2014 5:32:47 PM >

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 5:31:26 PM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Well it really wouldn't just be consensual nonconsent. I have a nonconsent arrangement with my partner that at any time (in private) I can taken down and "raped" even when I'm dead set against it - but we're switches! So no, it wouldn't just be consensual nonconsent. That alone could not be the only definition. It would only be part of it.

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 5:57:08 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Nah, I'm a pillow princess.

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 5:58:29 PM   
Darkfeather


Posts: 1142
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline 		As a black man, I am really offended by all this talk of slavery

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 6:00:09 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

As a black man, I am really offended by all this talk of slavery


You look like some kind of monarch butterfly ninja

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 6:02:47 PM   
Darkfeather


Posts: 1142
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

As a black man, I am really offended by all this talk of slavery


You look like some kind of monarch butterfly ninja

Nu uh, I saw Roots man. I know stuff

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 6:39:06 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		I don't identify as a slave and I don't believe in consensual slavery.

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 7:31:08 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Given what has been posted here before...and now... regarding slavery, my feelings have not changed much.

On the one hand...there is the school of thought that someone in D/s and BDSM can call themselves what they wish. Whether or not someone (even the majority of someones) agrees with them, they can do so. I don't go along with this school...words mean what they mean, even when they are defined to fit D/s and BDSM. If you are not a slave in the dictionary sense, then you MIGHT be one in the D/s and BDSM sense...IF you go along with the constructed (granted that the construct is loose in some instances) definition. But if you choose to make up your own definition of what "slavery" is so that you can fit yourself into the word most appealing to you and your definition contains very few elements that others would see as defining of slavery, don't be surprised when someone calls you on it.

And, hey folks? I am sorry but the school I've described above strikes me a little too much as free-wheeling, "rules don't apply to me", "I do what I want" (CARTMAN) D/s and BDSM.

On the other hand, you have got those who want to use dictionary/quasi-legal definitions to structure D/s and BDSM without consideration of the true legalities regarding slavery. D/s and BDSM is, IMHO, a lifestyle structured around realistic tenets with some fantasy elements (some of which are illegal) thrown in. Being able to recognize the fantastical aspect from the realistic/legal one is something we should all be able to do. If you and your partner want to be Master/slave...as defined within D/s and BDSM sources that are credible (see Reading List) with some nuances of your own thrown in, then go for it. But please keep a space in your head for reality.

YMMV...the above is my opinion only.

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 7:52:01 PM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And, hey folks? I am sorry but the school I've described above strikes me a little too much as free-wheeling, "rules don't apply to me", "I do what I want" (CARTMAN) D/s and BDSM.


Ok, so I must fit into your rules and regulations of the lifestyle and naming conventions and roles that general BDSMers consider "correct"?

While using words in a way that is generally understood between people of similar kinks is helpful - like a common definition of what a 'slave' is vs a submissive, dominant or master, this is all just how someone wants to live and feel and that cannot ever completely fit into a definition, nor a set of rules on what a person living that role must or must not do. I just don't see that as fair to try and make complex humans that confined into simple 'roles'.

For communication reasons, it's easier to use the correct descriptive word of your role, or don't use it in public at all. But in private? Why not let people describe themselves however they want? That's your business.

< Message edited by pg4g -- 2/15/2014 8:11:49 PM >

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 8:10:05 PM   
Nakhla


Posts: 104
Joined: 10/24/2012
Status: offline
I don't really like slave, but I use it as needed, even though I'm by no means a slave in any legal or absolute mental sense. Regardless of any tightly-argued definition on here, I've found most doms I run into use:

Submissive - only submissive to their dom in the bedroom.

Slave - submissive to their man most/all of the time.

I'm the second, but I've had guys say I was a "true slave" and guys say I was no slave at all. So, if I use it, it's a term of expediency.

If someone is compatible with me I'll be their any-noun. It really means that little to me. I'll be the frosting awl to your narwhal glyph if that gets your motor running.



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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 8:19:47 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I don't identify as a slave and I don't believe in consensual slavery.


yup.
exactly this.

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 8:29:42 PM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I don't identify as a slave and I don't believe in consensual slavery.

Let me chime in to say I don't believe in it either. "Slave" is such a misused term. There is a symbiotic relationship, or there should be IMHO within D/s-M/s (leaving BDSM activities out of it, since those can be inclusive of or exclusive of Dominance/submission). In other words, both terms "slave" and "Master/Mistress" define one another.

Are you a slave without a Master/Mistress?
Can you be a Master/Mistress without a slave?

Not to get technical about it, but it's worth considering. If you have previous experience, then you can rightly call yourself these epithets. Otherwise, it's just wishful thinking, and you may actually be a Top or a bottom and not even a Dominant or submissive to begin with.

I wouldn't want my submissive to identify himself as a slave, but if it warms the cockles of his heart to call himself my slave and to have me call him mine, then it's no biggie. (This is because I know how our D/s relationship dynamic has been defined between us and that's all that matters.) What I don't want is for my sub to have a "slave" mentality 24/7 where he's so caught up in playing his slave-like role that he is incapable of deviating from it.

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 8:50:16 PM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nakhla

Submissive - only submissive to their dom in the bedroom.

Slave - submissive to their man most/all of the time.



Hmmm I'm curious about those definitions. From what I understood it was:

Bottom: only submissive in the bedroom or scene.

Submissive: generally submissive in the relationship. Has an opinion and life but defers to the Dom as a superior.

Slave: The property of the master. Owned. Complete submission.


By your definitions, Nakhla, what is the difference between a BDSM bottom (not to be confused with a gay vanilla bottom) and a submissive?

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 8:54:11 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

A regular poster who identified as property once posted "It was her Master's decision whether or not she continue breathing". If I understood her history correctly, she would have internalized her slavery to the bone.

I was just thinking of her the other day and wondering what would happen if he decided she not continue. Would she fight in the end? I'd like to think so. If that's the case, then consensual slavery is an artificial construct.

And to answer the OP, no.

ETA: I haven't seen that property post here in years, by the way.



I admit, this is Master and I pretty much. It's his decision....about anything...period. I am his slave, his property, his "it". It's not a term we take lightly and not without really knowing who we both are. We both are comfortable with our terms and places. His choices, his decisions. Nothing is off limits.

Webster's Dictionary:

"1
: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
2
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence
3
: a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another
4
: drudge, toiler "

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 2/15/2014 8:56:43 PM >

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 9:07:15 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nakhla

Submissive - only submissive to their dom in the bedroom.

Slave - submissive to their man most/all of the time.



quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

Hmmm I'm curious about those definitions. From what I understood it was:

Bottom: only submissive in the bedroom or scene.

Submissive: generally submissive in the relationship. Has an opinion and life but defers to the Dom as a superior.

Slave: The property of the master. Owned. Complete submission.



I wonder why the word "submissive" just isn't good enough for some?

quote:

Original "Submit" Yahoo Dictionary

VERB:
sub·mit·ted, sub·mit·ting, sub·mits
VERB:
tr.

1. To yield or surrender (oneself) to the will or authority of another.
2. To subject to a condition or process.
3. To commit (something) to the consideration or judgment of another. See Synonyms at propose.
4. To offer as a proposition or contention: I submit that the terms are entirely unreasonable.

VERB:
intr.

1. To give in to the authority, power, or desires of another. See Synonyms at yield.
2. To allow oneself to be subjected to something.



from whence we get:

quote:

Original "Submissive" Yahoo Dictionary

ADJECTIVE:
Inclined or willing to submit.

OTHER FORMS:
sub·missive·ly(Adverb), sub·missive·ness(Noun)



Why do people need to re-invent the wheel? I have theories ...





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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 9:09:42 PM   
Darkfeather


Posts: 1142
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline 		I am of the school of what does my opinion give a flying fuck to someone else's definition of what they consider themselves. If they call themselves a slave, more power to em, if they call themselves a submissive, you go girlfriend. If they call themselves green eyed aliens from the planet Jubron 5, well then I am going to back away slowly not taking my eyes off em. Definitions, in this lifestyle (unless you are trying to make a buck at it) are personal. As in between you and the person or persons you eventually want to start calling you said definitions.

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 9:14:07 PM   
Nakhla


Posts: 104
Joined: 10/24/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nakhla

Submissive - only submissive to their dom in the bedroom.

Slave - submissive to their man most/all of the time.



Hmmm I'm curious about those definitions. From what I understood it was:

Bottom: only submissive in the bedroom or scene.

Submissive: generally submissive in the relationship. Has an opinion and life but defers to the Dom as a superior.

Slave: The property of the master. Owned. Complete submission.


By your definitions, Nakhla, what is the difference between a BDSM bottom (not to be confused with a gay vanilla bottom) and a submissive?


For me, it's not so much my definitions as having the following conversation a lot:

Them: "Are you a sub or slave?"

Me: "I'm pretty open about definitions, I'm submissive in personality."

Them: "Oh, I'm looking for someone who submits all the time not just in the bedroom."

I don't actually run across the term "BDSM bottom" a lot outside the munch scene and these boards. Among gay men, bottom is just which position you're in during anal sex, sub/submissive refers to anything beyond that. There are dom bottoms out there!

Again, these are not my definitions, so much as those of the general milieu of my dating pool.

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 9:22:32 PM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

"I do what I want" (CARTMAN) D/s and BDSM.




Can I please start identifying as a Cartman Sub?

I'm not a slave, never identified as one. Not in my personal life, and certainly not in the pro-sub life. Too opinionated, maybe.

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RE: Are you a Slave? - 2/15/2014 9:37:43 PM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
Status: offline 		Ummm....look what is written under "TieMeInKnottss". As we all know, if it is written on the Internet, it is true

Truthfully...I always considered myself a sub but both of my long term doms told me I was a slave... Now, I just feel like I should qualify myself by saying I "have slave-like tendencies"... Honestly? Ask Malcolm. He gave me the moniker and he has a lengthy explanation..I just do what I am told!

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