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RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:03:15 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'm not a huge fan of SYG laws, but I like a well administered concealed carry law. CA, as I mentioned on the court ruling thread, does not have a good system for it. Done right, I do think it can be an excellent deterrent to crime.


Wouldn't SYG laws and well administered concealed carry laws overlap on certain points or in practice be virtually the same ? I'm not a fan of people shooting others who ought not to have been shot but in these instances, SYG would be just one more useable excuse to grasp for, the same as insanity or temporary insanity. I think most of the time judges and juries are going to see through that shit.

I'm not a fan of people getting prosecuted by pompous anti gun overzealous assholes when they shot someone who ought to have been shot. Bernard Getz would be a case in point though if he had kept his mouth shut he would have ended up in court.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:05:09 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65

I actually went to the site unintentionally. I was sent an email which I thought contained information on a scooter (stop laughing) event. The email contained a link and I went on it. Which led me to other sites. It was like a train wreck, I was rubber necking and couldn't stop myself from looking.

Been there done that.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DominantWoman65)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:14:27 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'm not a huge fan of SYG laws, but I like a well administered concealed carry law. CA, as I mentioned on the court ruling thread, does not have a good system for it. Done right, I do think it can be an excellent deterrent to crime.


Wouldn't SYG laws and well administered concealed carry laws overlap on certain points or in practice be virtually the same ? I'm not a fan of people shooting others who ought not to have been shot but in these instances, SYG would be just one more useable excuse to grasp for, the same as insanity or temporary insanity. I think most of the time judges and juries are going to see through that shit.

I'm not a fan of people getting prosecuted by pompous anti gun overzealous assholes when they shot someone who ought to have been shot. Bernard Getz would be a case in point though if he had kept his mouth shut he would have ended up in court.

Like a guy getting a hung jury for killing a kid for mouthing off at him?

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:14:28 PM   
DominantWoman65


Posts: 386
Joined: 6/27/2013
Status: offline 		I always tried to stay on top of things in PA, knowing what groups were in my local community, monitoring who was contacting my children via IM's and chats and who were potential threats to my family but now it's horrifying.

Edited for spelling

< Message edited by DominantWoman65 -- 2/16/2014 8:16:17 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:15:59 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Bernie Goetz... LOL. I can't help but wonder what a circus that case would be if it happened with the media we have today.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:21:11 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'm not a huge fan of SYG laws, but I like a well administered concealed carry law. CA, as I mentioned on the court ruling thread, does not have a good system for it. Done right, I do think it can be an excellent deterrent to crime.


Wouldn't SYG laws and well administered concealed carry laws overlap on certain points or in practice be virtually the same ? I'm not a fan of people shooting others who ought not to have been shot but in these instances, SYG would be just one more useable excuse to grasp for, the same as insanity or temporary insanity. I think most of the time judges and juries are going to see through that shit.

I'm not a fan of people getting prosecuted by pompous anti gun overzealous assholes when they shot someone who ought to have been shot. Bernard Getz would be a case in point though if he had kept his mouth shut he would have ended up in court.

Like a guy getting a hung jury for killing a kid for mouthing off at him?


Which part of my post were you addressing ? What killing and was the case retried ??

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:26:34 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65

I would really like to believe that and I still would like to but after visiting some websites I was appalled by what I read. Now either these people are members of all the same organizations or there is more hatred out there than I thought.



And does a site like this one convince you that kinky people are a significant segment of the population? That's not intended as a snark question. Follow enough links, you'll always find a rabbit hole to tumble down, on any topic. The mommy's basement crowd is creepy.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DominantWoman65)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:30:00 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Bernie Goetz... LOL. I can't help but wonder what a circus that case would be if it happened with the media we have today.


I thought it was a media circus. The only difference was they weren't successful in railroading Getz.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:30:03 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWoman65

I would really like to believe that and I still would like to but after visiting some websites I was appalled by what I read. Now either these people are members of all the same organizations or there is more hatred out there than I thought.



And does a site like this one convince you that kinky people are a significant segment of the population? That's not intended as a snark question. Follow enough links, you'll always find a rabbit hole to tumble down, on any topic. The mommy's basement crowd is creepy.

Amen

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:34:12 PM   
DominantWoman65


Posts: 386
Joined: 6/27/2013
Status: offline 		Actually I would be quite content if more people were like us. At least we're not afraid to say which side of the bread we like to butter. I have visited a lot of sites and I am not naive to the fact of your comment above, it could also be my experiences. These groups are becoming more vocal and hitting on other people's fears and insecurities that give them the power to grow.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:35:49 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Bernie Goetz... LOL. I can't help but wonder what a circus that case would be if it happened with the media we have today.


I thought it was a media circus. The only difference was they weren't successful in railroading Getz.

They did get him for illegal possession.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:47:06 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Bernie Goetz... LOL. I can't help but wonder what a circus that case would be if it happened with the media we have today.


I thought it was a media circus. The only difference was they weren't successful in railroading Getz.

They did get him for illegal possession.


Yes but initially they were not going to prosecute. His lawyers told him not to talk about it but Getz couldn't help himself and ran his mouth off on TV. Even though the case for murder was weak, he said enough to piss off the anti gun NYC prosecutors and ended up in court. He wasn't convicted of murder, rightly so, but they got him on the gun charge which in my opinion was BS.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:48:23 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Bernie Goetz... LOL. I can't help but wonder what a circus that case would be if it happened with the media we have today.


I thought it was a media circus. The only difference was they weren't successful in railroading Getz.

They did get him for illegal possession.


Yes but initially they were not going to prosecute. His lawyers told him not to talk about it but Getz couldn't help himself and ran his mouth off on TV. Even though the case for murder was weak, he said enough to piss off the anti gun NYC prosecutors and ended up in court. He wasn't convicted of murder, rightly so, but they got him on the gun charge which in my opinion was BS.

Agreed
The truth does not always set you free.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 2/16/2014 8:49:10 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:51:06 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		I think I should point out that this has no bearing on the Dunn case.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 8:56:08 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'm not a huge fan of SYG laws, but I like a well administered concealed carry law. CA, as I mentioned on the court ruling thread, does not have a good system for it. Done right, I do think it can be an excellent deterrent to crime.


Wouldn't SYG laws and well administered concealed carry laws overlap on certain points or in practice be virtually the same ? I'm not a fan of people shooting others who ought not to have been shot but in these instances, SYG would be just one more useable excuse to grasp for, the same as insanity or temporary insanity. I think most of the time judges and juries are going to see through that shit.

I'm not a fan of people getting prosecuted by pompous anti gun overzealous assholes when they shot someone who ought to have been shot. Bernard Getz would be a case in point though if he had kept his mouth shut he would have ended up in court.

Like a guy getting a hung jury for killing a kid for mouthing off at him?


Which part of my post were you addressing ? What killing and was the case retried ??

The killing this thread is about.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 9:04:21 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		The killing this thread is about.


His best chance is if Corey oversteps again. 2nd should be a slam, when combined with 3 counts
of attempted 2nd he should never see the light of day.
Keep in mind he was not acquitted they couldn't agree on a charge.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 2/16/2014 9:05:35 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 9:36:53 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The killing this thread is about.


Oh that one

Yet I still ask, what part of my post were addressing ?

I don't see where this guy got away with much if anything yet. I don't see how you get first degree murder out of it though I definitely see second. I'm not sure where SYG came into it and can't they retry that part of the case ?

I don't think his feeble excuse for self defense got by the jury entirely.





< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 2/16/2014 9:39:23 PM >

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 9:44:37 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The killing this thread is about.


Oh that one

Yet I still ask, what part of my post were addressing ?

I don't see where this guy got away with much if anything yet. I don't see how you get first degree murder out of it though I definitely see second. I'm not sure where SYG came into it and can't they retry that part of the case ?

I don't think his feeble excuse for self defense got by the jury entirely.





SYG was not accepted, if it had been he would have walked.
He was convicted of 3 felonies, hardly "getting off".
And they have said they will retry.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 9:56:49 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
SYG was not accepted, if it had been he would have walked.
He was convicted of 3 felonies, hardly "getting off".
And they have said they will retry.


So he tried to use the SYG defense but it didn't fly ?

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Jury couldn't agree on 1st-degree - 2/16/2014 10:55:19 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
SYG was not accepted, if it had been he would have walked.
He was convicted of 3 felonies, hardly "getting off".
And they have said they will retry.


So he tried to use the SYG defense but it didn't fly ?

Yep he claimed they had a gun.
However he didn't even mention this till the next day.
He waited until the next day to report the incident, after he found out someone
had seen his license plate.
SYG was his only hope but it wasn't granted.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 80
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