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RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/3/2014 12:10:16 PM   
ThePrincessKali


Posts: 424
Joined: 9/19/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali

I'm sure he struggles with being sexually frustrated and maybe that's why he turned to BDSM. He obviously had some personal demons or was struggling with his sexual preferences. But I don't recall anything in the bible about BDSM lol. How is this going against Jesus's will? Isn't it a bit hypocritical to act this way?


I think he is obviously someone who is struggling with his religious beliefs and the fact of his human sexuality and desires. Of course, this does not excuse the way he lashed out at you, but there you have it. Generally when people behave badly like this it is much more about them than it ever is about you.

The fact that he did missionary work is telling. Proselytizing is part of the Christian faith, and particularly if he was involved in missionary work then that particular aspect of Christianity is obviously extremely meaningful to him. So it is natural given his beliefs that he would launch into the "you will burn in hell if you don't accept Jesus" kind of rhetoric. It goes with his beliefs. This is, after all, a central tenet of Christianity. I have written in many threads about how the belief in only one god coupled with proselytizing leads to a rigidity and lack of respect or acceptance of others and their own beliefs. It's part of the package that he has accepted (or is struggling to accept). It would be nice if he could do this soul searching without involving others, but as proselytizing requires "saving others", this will always be part of his interaction with people whose faith/definition of faith is not similar to his own. If a person believes ONLY their god is god, and that saving other people's souls is a personal responsibility, then this is, sadly, how one ends up interacting with the world. I would return his money and try to avoid further contact unless any of his spiritual message is meaningful to you.


I donated it to a charity that promotes tolerance because Jesus preached about helping people and that I do agree with. So I figured it was more of a Christian thing to do then the way he was acting. I told him that and he hasn't tried to get back in touch with me.

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/3/2014 12:17:35 PM   
ThePrincessKali


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Joined: 9/19/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali
I hope you didn't feel I was insulting you as I wasn't. And I do applaud you as it seems you've gotten out of a tough situation. I can't pretend I've been there. I grew up Catholic but when I got into high school was given a choice by my parents to continue my religious education and I decided not to as it went against what I believed in. I made that comment because I tried to reason with him, not about his decision to spread the word, but solely on the fact that I didn't appreciate being told I was going to hell. And he continued to quote the bible and refused to answer any questions I asked and just repeated the same thing. To me, that isn't a logical dialogue. So if he is not willing to even discuss the fact that I didn't need "saving," it seems illogical. At least from where I'm standing. He also told me that his family was not religious and I don't believe he had a Christian upbringing so he chose this lifestyle. I did try hard to see his perspective, because honestly I was angry bc of the way he treated me and was trying to understand. I couldn't understand how someome would willingly join a group and then stay in it, when it made him feel angry and bad about himself. But as I said I've never been in the situation so I'm sure it's much more difficult than I think it would be.



Firstly, no, definitely not insulted. Just pointing out why you'll never convince some of these people - it's not their logic that's messed up, it's the beliefs behind them. And you can't convince a person to believe something different any more than he can convince you what he believes is correct. Belief is an internal thing.

Secondly, I never had a Christian upbringing either. I started believing in Christ in my teenage years.

Thirdly, I'm sure he wasn't interested in a dialogue. The things you said would have contradicted his core bad assumptions, and they just trumped everything. He wouldn't listen to other stuff. It probably hurt and would cause him to become even more confused, troubled, and he would have clung to what he held as a security blanket: his religious beliefs. It provides him a sense of security and certainty.

Fourthly, I'm sure you were angry. People can really offend and insult, and it sounds like he did that pretty harshly as a defense. Your difficulty is understandable.

Finally, I had somewhat more difficulty. The bible doesn't speak directly about BDSM, and as I mentioned earlier, D/s is alluded to, and slavery is even condoned. But homosexuality? That's simply outlawed as evil. Dredges of hell, even in the New Testament. It took a heck of a lot of work for me to work at sorting out my head. I believed, unlike this guy, that I had solid religious reasons for believing I was an evil bastard haha. Down to scripture and verse. I can imagine the pain the guy's head is in, and as RedMagic1 said, literally blood, sweat and tears working myself out. I spent weeks cooped up torturing myself, and then watching the blood and sweat pour off myself as I sat crying in the bottom of a shower night after night for what a disgusting person I was in my own eyes. In a similar way, I'm sure this guy hates himself.

I see the damage the church can do in people's lives, and even though I'm still a Christian, and I do believe in God, I certainly do feel for people like this, and for the people who have to deal with the backlash of their self hatred.

[Edited to fix typo]


I'm so sorry that you had to go through that ordeal : ( I have an acquaintance who went to Liberty College (I think that's what it's called) and is gay but has decided to become celibate because of what the bible says. Every time I've talked to him I want to cry bc I feel so bad for him. I am straight but have many gay friends and that part of the bible really bothers more than anything. My father was born again and told me my best friend a bad person because he is gay. We had a long talk about that and he eventually came around and stopped thinking that after he met my friend and found out how many good things he did for me. The guy the OP is about also expressed feelings of distaste during his attempt to "save me" because I live in an area that's very well know for having a high gay population. He was struggling with sexual desires he was born with so it floored me that he felt he had the right to judge others for their natural sexual desires.

(in reply to pg4g)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/3/2014 4:35:33 PM   
LorraineCA


Posts: 114
Joined: 12/10/2013
Status: offline 		On a side note, the largest church in the USA is Rev. Joel Osteen. Millions of Americans listen to him every week. He said on Oprah that homosexual can go to heaven. So maybe Christianity is changing, like it has in other areas.

(in reply to ThePrincessKali)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/3/2014 5:42:44 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Joel Osteen will say anything if it means he can gather a few more people to his congregation and he can take their money from them. Remember, Osteen preaches that God wants us all to be monetarily rich and if we just pray to God and ask him for it, he will shower us with money.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/3/2014 5:54:22 PM   
LorraineCA


Posts: 114
Joined: 12/10/2013
Status: offline 		I listen to Joel Osteen and I believe, as well as millions other, he gives us spiritual guidance and helps us lead a more meaningful life. I'm sorry you only get a shallow message from him. In any case, he does preach that Homosexuals can go to heaven, which is quite a different tune to what other preachers say.

< Message edited by LorraineCA -- 3/3/2014 5:55:10 PM >

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/3/2014 7:53:59 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g
I see the damage the church can do in people's lives, and even though I'm still a Christian, and I do believe in God, I certainly do feel for people like this, and for the people who have to deal with the backlash of their self hatred.


Have you ever considered atheism?

(in reply to pg4g)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/3/2014 9:49:58 PM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Have you ever considered atheism?


You ask that question like it's a matter of choice. What you believe is what you consider most probably correct, not what you choose to think.

I believe that it's most probable that there is a God, and that Jesus was some incarnation of him, and his message that the world works by each element looking after each other in love is correct, in my view at least. I can't deny that. It just appears to me, according to the facts, to be the most plausible case.

However, the idea that the bible is the word of God, that the church has the right to judge people, dictate truth for God, and that we need to cling to the teachings of clearly biased people as doctrine is pathetic, closed minded, and based on a system where organised religion wants to take a hold of this for a sense of security and certainty.

I have no problem with what I believe to be the truth of the Christian message. I have a massive problem with Christianity. The christian church as a whole seems to have strayed from the core message: rules are gone, just love, care, be considerate, don't judge others, have faith in God, and that's it. Unfortunately that message a little too scary for the Christian Church.

I've considered the concept that a God doesn't exist, and I simply cannot believe that, try as I might have at one time.

[Edited to make it clear I'm not viewing all Christians in this way]

< Message edited by pg4g -- 3/3/2014 9:53:31 PM >

_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 5:05:46 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		I listen to Joyce Meyers, and I have a lot of her literature. Now if she would have listened and went by what others told her ( IN CHURCH) she wouldn't have found her calling. She was being told a woman cant preach the word of God, because the Bible says so. Well I think they were misinpretating. SHe lost all her so called Church family. They also said she didn't have the personality to speak. There will always be someone to try to prevent you from being the best you, you can be, and guess what sometimes its OURSELVES too, keeping us from moving forward.
And of course a homosexual can go to Heaven, that's not even a question to me! The only unforgivable sin ( in my belief system only, not trying to dis anyone elses way of believing) is not accepting Jesus Christ sincerely into your heart, soul, life, and mind. Everyone who is sincere in that changing day is welcome!!! Yes everyone.
Each and everyone of us deal with some sort of temptation. I have dealt with a couple serious ones of mine, which were quite a struggle, but guess what, I have more more more.....lol. I seriously struggle with smoking cigarettes, I cant seem to find the strength or will yet to quit. Sounds so silly right? JUST QUIT! But the truth is I still like smoking and even though I know its bad for me, its effecting my health, it stinks and I KNOW KNOW KNOW I need to stop, IM still doing it. One day IM confident I will quit, but until then, I will just keep asking to gain that will power and strength.

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to pg4g)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 7:35:00 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Have you ever considered atheism?


You ask that question like it's a matter of choice. What you believe is what you consider most probably correct, not what you choose to think.


How is what you consider most probably correct not thinking or choice? Many religions do actually want people who have chosen the religion. That's actually what conversion implies. At a certain point in history there was no Buddhism, Christianity or Islam. None of these religions is as old as religions like Judaism, Hinduism or Shinto, to name a few. All historical followers of Buddhism, Christianity or Islam these religions are converts to these religions. People made a choice (or in some sad periods of history were forced to convert), but I think it is accurate to say it is a choice.

I'm just curious of how to distinguish between "I believe there is life on other planets in the universe" and "I think there is life on other planets in the universe". Are you implying "belief" is a completely distinct thing from "thought"? If this is true, why, when people try to convert someone, do they always appeal to the mind, to thought?? They always speak to people, give them literature, try to engage their brain in thinking about the specific religion they are trying to promote. If belief were something entirely separate, I would think there would be another way to convert people, i.e., you would not actually have to appeal to the mind at all. Just having a hard time with the idea of "thought" and "thinking" not being part of religious belief (although, frankly, that would explain a lot about religion (because only people who don't think or have a functional cell in their brains could possibly hate and kill over religious beliefs)). Surely you are not trying to imply that thinking is not part of faith/religion? That makes religion look even worse. Truly.

_____________________________

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(in reply to pg4g)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 7:38:34 AM   
altoonamaster


Posts: 184
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		joel osteen is like any preacher on television they want you wallet bank account and anything else

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 7:42:22 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

I seriously struggle with smoking cigarettes, I cant seem to find the strength or will yet to quit. Sounds so silly right? JUST QUIT! But the truth is I still like smoking and even though I know its bad for me, its effecting my health, it stinks and I KNOW KNOW KNOW I need to stop, IM still doing it. One day IM confident I will quit, but until then, I will just keep asking to gain that will power and strength.



Get an e-cigarette, the ones where you fill in the liquid, makes stopping so much easier

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 8:58:38 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
I seriously struggle with smoking cigarettes, I cant seem to find the strength or will yet to quit. Sounds so silly right? JUST QUIT! But the truth is I still like smoking and even though I know its bad for me, its effecting my health, it stinks and I KNOW KNOW KNOW I need to stop, IM still doing it. One day IM confident I will quit, but until then, I will just keep asking to gain that will power and strength.



Get an e-cigarette, the ones where you fill in the liquid, makes stopping so much easier

Better still, get the ones with 'cartomizer' cartridges - they are much easier.

We have recently started using Vapourlite E-cigs.
I know cigs are cheaper in the US but here, the Vapourlite E-cigs are about 12% the price of normal cigs.
200 cigs here is around £70+ ($115) and the E-cig cartridges for 200 cigs is only £9 ($14.40).
I've tried other E-cigs and didn't get on with them very well.
I like the Vapourlite ones quite a lot and we're both slowly weaning off of real cigs.
I also like the idea of having Cherry, Vanilla, Menthol and normal tobacco flavours - all switchable in seconds.
So if I fancy a few puffs of the menthol, I can switch over and have a few puffs then switch back or to another flavour.
Plus, I can recharge the batteries in my USB port ; so I have one charging and the other being used.
There are also mains-socket chargers available as well.
Having liquid nicotine in the cartomizers means we get the 'hit' but without all the nasties with real cigs.
No need for ash trays, no smoke, no smell, easy charging, multiple flavours.

I sound like a sales person but I can honestly say I'm a 60-a-day smoker slowly changing.

Hope that helps a bit.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 9:02:36 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		THank you Lady Constanze. I have tried a couple e cigs, but I can try that one. I haven't tried the filler kind.

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 9:39:49 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		I think they are called vapes or something, come with a battery and a tank where you fill in the liquid, there are some regular e-cigs who look like cigs, they are crap and a waste of money. Not sure where you are but in LA there are tons of shops that have them. As freedomdwarf said, you get none of the toxins and the goodies that cause cancer. I've been smoking for almost 20 years and never thought I would be able to stop, with the vapes it was surprisingly easy...

Found the link http://www.visioncig.com/vision-clearomizer-vision-v-tox-bbc-c-3_19.html

Get a bigger batterie, that will last a lot longer (preferably 2 so you can charge one) I have one with a twisty bit at the end where you can change the strength or your nicotine hit. I was amazed how well they worked and when I told my doc and my dentist, they were all for it, they said the nicotine is really not what has them worried, all the chemicals they put into the tobacco is what is more dangerous. There are tons of different flavoured liquids, personally I never saw the attraction of bubblegum flavours and such, but hey...

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 10:41:28 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		I don't like the tank ones.
I tried those and I don't like the idea that once a tank has had a certain flavour, it spoils any other flavour you might want to have.
In essence, you'd have to have a tank for each flavour you might want to use.
Plus, you have to actually fill it and I find that a PITA personally.
And there are also potential leak problems with tanks that you don't have with cartomizers.
I also don't like the 'manual' ones either. I don't like to have to press a button to get a 'smoke'!

I think the ones that have liquid (automatic) cartomizers are way better and a lot more convenient.
Having tried both, I wouldn't say the ones with cartomizers are crap.
A lot of the E-cigs are no better than toys so you need to get ones with real liquid nicotine in them.
Maybe the 'toy' ones are the ones that LC is refering to?? Dunno.
I would certainly say that the disposable ones are crap - get a rechargable one.

This is the one we use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnfw8hnUlxk (short advert)
We are using the 16mg nicotine version but there are other strengths (zero, 6mg, 11mg, 16mg, 20mg).
It's new(ish) in the UK but there's bound to be an outlet in the USA somewhere.
Here's an explanation of what E-cigs are made of and what choices you have: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEn4tnXrC0E

Just like finding which brands of real cigs you prefer, the same is also true for E-cigs.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 12:11:29 PM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Have you ever considered atheism?


You ask that question like it's a matter of choice. What you believe is what you consider most probably correct, not what you choose to think.


How is what you consider most probably correct not thinking or choice? Many religions do actually want people who have chosen the religion. That's actually what conversion implies. At a certain point in history there was no Buddhism, Christianity or Islam. None of these religions is as old as religions like Judaism, Hinduism or Shinto, to name a few. All historical followers of Buddhism, Christianity or Islam these religions are converts to these religions. People made a choice (or in some sad periods of history were forced to convert), but I think it is accurate to say it is a choice.

I'm just curious of how to distinguish between "I believe there is life on other planets in the universe" and "I think there is life on other planets in the universe". Are you implying "belief" is a completely distinct thing from "thought"? If this is true, why, when people try to convert someone, do they always appeal to the mind, to thought?? They always speak to people, give them literature, try to engage their brain in thinking about the specific religion they are trying to promote. If belief were something entirely separate, I would think there would be another way to convert people, i.e., you would not actually have to appeal to the mind at all. Just having a hard time with the idea of "thought" and "thinking" not being part of religious belief (although, frankly, that would explain a lot about religion (because only people who don't think or have a functional cell in their brains could possibly hate and kill over religious beliefs)). Surely you are not trying to imply that thinking is not part of faith/religion? That makes religion look even worse. Truly.


Thinking is certainly part of it. If you go to school, you get taught in science about cells and atoms that you cannot see, you inevitably think these things through. But then you also believe. You believe because what they've taught you has always been true, and what they tell you matches what you know of the world. Belief is deeper, an internal conviction about your core beliefs about the world.

I never said that I don't agree with thought. It's essential to everything you believe, and questioning and re-forming your beliefs. But it was implied that I think of just switching from one religion to the next, and I don't believe you pick your metaphysical beliefs. You believe what makes the most sense to you..

_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 1:25:24 PM   
ThePrincessKali


Posts: 424
Joined: 9/19/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24


And of course a homosexual can go to Heaven, that's not even a question to me! The only unforgivable sin ( in my belief system only, not trying to dis anyone elses way of believing) is not accepting Jesus Christ sincerely into your heart, soul, life, and mind. Everyone who is sincere in that changing day is welcome!!! Yes everyone.



This. This is why Christianity is so hard for me to get behind. So I could murder someone in cold blood but if I accept Jesus it's forgivable? But if I live my life being a good person, helping others, volunteering, but choose to follow a different religious path I cannot be forgiven? And honestly I don't think I have anything to be "forgiven for." I should not have to ask for forgiveness because I am not a Christian. If there is a God I don't think he'll send good people to hell because they followed a different path. And another question. As someone mentioned Christianity isn't as old as other religions. But according to the Christian way of thinking, God created the universe and everything in it. So this means God was around prior to the formation of Christianity. So none of those people who were around before Jesus were "forgiven?"

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 1:53:42 PM   
LorraineCA


Posts: 114
Joined: 12/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali

This. This is why Christianity is so hard for me to get behind. So I could murder someone in cold blood but if I accept Jesus it's forgivable?
According to the Bible, if you sincerely accept Jesus Christ into your life and ask forgiveness you will be forgiven. Although spiritually you are forgiven you will still have to pay for your crimes against society by society.

But if I live my life being a good person, helping others, volunteering, but choose to follow a different religious path I cannot be forgiven?
The Bible does say that you go to heaven by accepting Jesus Christ as your savior.

And honestly I don't think I have anything to be "forgiven for."
According to the Bible, you were born with original sinWhat is original sin?



(in reply to ThePrincessKali)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 2:02:51 PM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		Yes, you murder someone in cold blood, and may have sincere repentence, and ask for forgiveness, in sincerity it shall be forgiven. Before God's son was sent, god destroyed everything on the face of the earth because he was unhappy with the people. I have no idea what happened to those souls.
the way we believe, being a good person is commendable, but it will not give you eternal life. Everyone has their own belief system and this is the path for me.if you do not feel you need forgiven for anything then this would not be the path for you.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24


And of course a homosexual can go to Heaven, that's not even a question to me! The only unforgivable sin ( in my belief system only, not trying to dis anyone elses way of believing) is not accepting Jesus Christ sincerely into your heart, soul, life, and mind. Everyone who is sincere in that changing day is welcome!!! Yes everyone.



This. This is why Christianity is so hard for me to get behind. So I could murder someone in cold blood but if I accept Jesus it's forgivable? But if I live my life being a good person, helping others, volunteering, but choose to follow a different religious path I cannot be forgiven? And honestly I don't think I have anything to be "forgiven for." I should not have to ask for forgiveness because I am not a Christian. If there is a God I don't think he'll send good people to hell because they followed a different path. And another question. As someone mentioned Christianity isn't as old as other religions. But according to the Christian way of thinking, God created the universe and everything in it. So this means God was around prior to the formation of Christianity. So none of those people who were around before Jesus were "forgiven?"




_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to ThePrincessKali)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Christianity and BDSM - 3/4/2014 2:08:29 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LorraineCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali

This. This is why Christianity is so hard for me to get behind. So I could murder someone in cold blood but if I accept Jesus it's forgivable?
According to the Bible, if you sincerely accept Jesus Christ into your life and ask forgiveness you will be forgiven. Although spiritually you are forgiven you will still have to pay for your crimes against society by society.

But if I live my life being a good person, helping others, volunteering, but choose to follow a different religious path I cannot be forgiven?
The Bible does say that you go to heaven by accepting Jesus Christ as your savior.

And honestly I don't think I have anything to be "forgiven for."
According to the Bible, you were born with original sinWhat is original sin?






How does the original sin tie in with the fact that the Catholic church actually does accept evolution? Seems a bit of a contradiction...

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to LorraineCA)
Profile   Post #: 60
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