RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard

RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (Full Version)

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PyrotheClown -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/7/2014 12:34:41 PM)
you know,I've always been curious bout this argument that people should work their way up when I got outta highschool,my first actual pay check job was as a COB role player for the military(civilian on battle field) I got paid 150 dollars a day to sit round and yell at marines in arabic before that(I'd been working since I could lift screens in my folks shop)I had done odd jobs for bout 5 dollars an hour under the table...lots of construction and shit like that.had a steady gig working pumping septic tanks for a while through high school...real work...real sweaty dirty hard work...paid less then yelling at marines ok,so then I get an official paid gig as a construction worker,and I got paid better...not much better,but better by the age of 21,I already had arthritis in my hands and had blown out my knee,I needed a knew job so I ended up petitioning...got paid per signature,and for the first time I was getting paid a rate directly based on what work I was performing,and boy howdy,I was good at it.first day was pouring rain,and I still managed to make a 100 in one day off a single dollar petition,and all I had to do was hustle.no sweat,no pain,barely even considered work.I rose up in the ranks and thought it'd be a good idea to be a coordinator(a petitioning boss) ,that's when the problems really started,when I could find a good hustler,I had problems getting paid by my clients and very soon I was loosing the money that I was paying out to my crew...luckily when I had been making real money,I had made some investments in industrial land trading,and the company I had started had a made a big deal and the pay out made up for the losses.the large heap of money I had made was from an investment,no work was involved,at least on my end..no sweat,nothing,just lil money out,a whole lot back.I then decided to make another investment,this time into the booming bail bonds racket in navada.it was a good investment,the company did very well for itself intill we started having staff problems. Embezzlement,flaky employs,that sorta thing.long story short,I ended up working in many of the offices,but I wasn't licensed to do so,so I ended up doing time and spending a lot of money getting out of the slammer.after that I've been doing a few gigs here and there again like I did back in high school,but for more money(10 and hour most the time)working under and over the table at a lot of different establishments (bookstores,dive bars,ect).Made good money,but one by one,my employers started to dwindle(no one buys books any more,bar got shut down after someone got their throat slit in the parking lot,a few of my regular employers died,moved,went bankrupt) and I was thrown into the regular nine to five at a shitty fast food place for 8 dollars and hour..taxed.....and had to work my ass off,ran circles round the 18 and 19 year olds that called them selves workers..After working my way up to a fullgaspnine dollars an hour,I quit,couldn't take it anymore..the shitty franchise owners were pieces of shit who bounced checks and fired and hired based of personal bias more the merrit.and now I've found myself working under the table again,but working half as hard making twice as much(petitioning,bartering goods from stores,ect.) So I'm curios,where do Americans get the idea that working harder makes you wealthier it hasn't been the case for me,and I'm sure it hasn't been the case for many people out there Work does not equal wealth Getting some one else to work for you certainly does I know that this isn't always the case,and their are plenty of professional adults who truly earn their pay but in todays world,the ones who are making the most are certainly not the ones who work the hardest,so why do we treat them that way? why do we not value a "floor sweeper" but not blink an eye when paris hilton sweeps a floor for hundreds of dollars and does a half ass job of it for our entertainment business executives and inspirational speakers often say that something is only as strong as it's weakest link then why are our weakest links eligible for food stamps?

Lucylastic -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/7/2014 12:37:11 PM)
I knew there was more than one reason I liked you:)

PyrotheClown -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/7/2014 12:50:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic I knew there was more than one reason I liked you:) The first being my dashing good looks?lol

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/7/2014 2:31:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech In 2000 I did a little exercise. The first job I had that had taxes taken out was in 1973. I was working for minimum wage which was $1.91/hr in those days. I took that and did an increase by the Federal Government's official inflation rate each year. Hmm, if minimum wage has increased for inflation, it would have been $46/hr in 2000. Food for thought. Inflation has eaten our economy and left us with the slops. I also remember something from 9th grade Social Studies. We were studying third world countries and their economic situations. There seemed to be some common denominators among the failed economies in the third world. The first was that over 80% of the money supply was controlled by less than 10% of the population. Another common denominator was that the water supply was not trusted and the population needed to drink bottled water to feel safe. Call the tea baggers if you want but if you look behind the popular press rhetoric you find a disgust at decades of government irresponsibility and broke commitments perpetrated by both parties in Congress. Okay, so we are clearly on our way to becoming a Third World country. Going after the 1% will not actually solve the problem (witness Cuba, Russia, Venezuela). One thing I can guarantee is that redistributive economic policies guarantee that over 80% of the money is NOT controlled by 10% of the population. Everyone who continues to support conservative politics in our country is, in fact, supporting the continued situation of 80% of the money being controlled by the 10%. If you insist on low taxes, say no to redistributive policies, gut educational spending, etc. what you are actually doing is ensuring that the 10% maintain control of much more than they should to have a stable economy AND a stable political situation. Eventually this pot will boil over unless the middle class wakes up and realizes that spreading the wealth is the ONLY solution. We need New Deal type restructuring. But we don't have politicians gutsy enough to do it. Democrats may not have all the answers but their redistributive policies are more in line with maintaining social stability than most Republican policies which seem designed to maintain wealth disparity. What conservative policies are designed to redistribute wealth??? [sm=2cents.gif]

subfever -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/7/2014 3:35:12 PM)
quote: why do we not value a "floor sweeper" Ah... a question of value. From my perspective, people value what they've been conditioned to value. Why else would we value: 1) a system that requires perpetual growth, on a finite planet with finite resources? 2) a system that rewards planned obsolescence? 3) a system that increasingly pollutes our air, water, land, and all living creatures? 4) a system that rewards self-interest and ego-stroking, above all? 5) a system that guarantees there will be both winners and losers (stratification)? 6) a system that is corrupt, bloated, decaying, and unsustainable? According to various information I've read, only about 4 to 6% of the population is pathological. So then... what other than our conditioning causes the rest of us to ignore all of the above and value (if not defend and even embrace) our system anyway? To directly answer your question, Pyro... from my perspective, the reason most of us do not value a floor sweeper is because we have been conditioned to perceive them as losers. And aside from perhaps their own family and friends, losers are not perceived of as having much value... except to those that manage to profit off of their existences.

cloudboy -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/7/2014 6:51:09 PM)
I hereby nominate this as a heroic post. LOVED IT.

subfever -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/7/2014 6:56:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy I hereby nominate this as a heroic post. LOVED IT. Thank you!

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/9/2014 12:28:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Whats wrong with starting at the bottom and working your way up? Whats wrong with educating yourself, gaining skills and improving your earning potential? Not a damn thing. What's right with the wealthy paying an effective tax rate of 15% while the 99% pay 29%? 54% of the population pays no federal income tax. Might want to rework those numbers. The depth of your ignorance is such that you would HIGHLY benefit from some Well Explained Information On the subject matter. Gawwwwwd......I'm so glad we have Einstein's to explain this stuff to us.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/9/2014 12:36:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I can't believe you have just commented that we should raise the minimum wage so hourly workers who work the least skilled jobs and have the least amount of skills, can have a more productive non-work time. Shouldn't they concern themselves with making their work time more productive, and getting paid more for it? "workers who work the least skilled jobs" are probably breaking their fucking backs, physically. While I agree that while they're on the clock, they *belong* to the company, they (like the doctors, lawyers, and Indian chief) deserve to be able to unwind and *basic* cable shouldn't necessarily be an unattainable goal. The very idea that it's okay to treat "workers with the least skilled jobs" somehow differently than others (at a basic level) is a little offensive and it makes me hope I never see you on the other side of an interview desk. So did a lot of us. I don't know anyone that didn't. Some made choices to end up in a different place 30 years later. Some didn't. No one pays people a wage based on an employee's needs. They pay people based on what an employee provides. Whether that's $3.00 an hour or $70 kabillion an hour....it's how it's done. If you believe otherwise, or that "everyone deserves a living wage", I really hope those that truly believe that, next time you're having your kitchen remodeled, you offer the contractor an extra 30% over and above what he agreed to do the job for on his/her original proposal because fewer than 7% of contractors make a profit and most go out of business in less than 5 years. I think they deserve a living wage.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/9/2014 1:13:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie If you believe otherwise, or that "everyone deserves a living wage", I really hope those that truly believe that, next time you're having your kitchen remodeled, you offer the contractor an extra 30% over and above what he agreed to do the job for on his/her original proposal because fewer than 7% of contractors make a profit and most go out of business in less than 5 years. I think they deserve a living wage. I believe that when a man gives me a price for a job, we should both honor that commitment. When I give a client a price, I honor my commitment. I expect the same. I don't offer to pay more (although I have been known to give gratuities for a job well done and ahead of schedule) but neither do I try to chince them out of what I agreed to pay. Just to be clear; I never used the term "living wage". I said that companies should have to compete to hire better workers. Some are even better at pushing a broom than others. Imagine that!

DaddySatyr -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/9/2014 1:56:44 AM)
I feel I need to clear that last post up. In a perfect world, being a Libertarian, I wish businesses would re-learn the old saw: "A happy worker is a productive worker" but greed and idolatry have killed that approach to how people conduct themselves. Since business seems un-willing to learn from it's mistakes (and while I DETEST government interference in our lives), I believe there are a few things the government can do to create an atmosphere that benefits workers *without* raising the minimum wage: 1) As I have written many times, a consumption tax is the way to go. Every person and corporation pays a "tax" of 9-11% on every purchase they make. 2) Any company with more than 50 workers that doesn't employ 80% of it's workforce full time is, obviously, trying to skirt certain labor laws and should be taxed an extra 5-7% 3) Any company with more than 19% of its workforce living anywhere but US soil is not an American company and must pay tariffs on their goods. 4) Repeal Obummercare to make the US climate a bit more friendly to US businesses 5) Repeal free-trade agreements which aren't adhered to and which the US doesn't really enforce (vis-à-vis foreign countries abrogating them).

DesideriScuri -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/9/2014 7:16:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown you know,I've always been curious bout this argument that people should work their way up when I got outta highschool,my first actual pay check job was as a COB role player for the military(civilian on battle field) I got paid 150 dollars a day to sit round and yell at marines in arabic before that(I'd been working since I could lift screens in my folks shop)I had done odd jobs for bout 5 dollars an hour under the table...lots of construction and shit like that.had a steady gig working pumping septic tanks for a while through high school...real work...real sweaty dirty hard work...paid less then yelling at marines ok,so then I get an official paid gig as a construction worker,and I got paid better...not much better,but better by the age of 21,I already had arthritis in my hands and had blown out my knee,I needed a knew job so I ended up petitioning...got paid per signature,and for the first time I was getting paid a rate directly based on what work I was performing,and boy howdy,I was good at it.first day was pouring rain,and I still managed to make a 100 in one day off a single dollar petition,and all I had to do was hustle.no sweat,no pain,barely even considered work.I rose up in the ranks and thought it'd be a good idea to be a coordinator(a petitioning boss) ,that's when the problems really started,when I could find a good hustler,I had problems getting paid by my clients and very soon I was loosing the money that I was paying out to my crew...luckily when I had been making real money,I had made some investments in industrial land trading,and the company I had started had a made a big deal and the pay out made up for the losses.the large heap of money I had made was from an investment,no work was involved,at least on my end..no sweat,nothing,just lil money out,a whole lot back.I then decided to make another investment,this time into the booming bail bonds racket in navada.it was a good investment,the company did very well for itself intill we started having staff problems. Embezzlement,flaky employs,that sorta thing.long story short,I ended up working in many of the offices,but I wasn't licensed to do so,so I ended up doing time and spending a lot of money getting out of the slammer.after that I've been doing a few gigs here and there again like I did back in high school,but for more money(10 and hour most the time)working under and over the table at a lot of different establishments (bookstores,dive bars,ect).Made good money,but one by one,my employers started to dwindle(no one buys books any more,bar got shut down after someone got their throat slit in the parking lot,a few of my regular employers died,moved,went bankrupt) and I was thrown into the regular nine to five at a shitty fast food place for 8 dollars and hour..taxed.....and had to work my ass off,ran circles round the 18 and 19 year olds that called them selves workers..After working my way up to a fullgaspnine dollars an hour,I quit,couldn't take it anymore..the shitty franchise owners were pieces of shit who bounced checks and fired and hired based of personal bias more the merrit.and now I've found myself working under the table again,but working half as hard making twice as much(petitioning,bartering goods from stores,ect.) So I'm curios,where do Americans get the idea that working harder makes you wealthier it hasn't been the case for me,and I'm sure it hasn't been the case for many people out there Work does not equal wealth Getting some one else to work for you certainly does I know that this isn't always the case,and their are plenty of professional adults who truly earn their pay but in todays world,the ones who are making the most are certainly not the ones who work the hardest,so why do we treat them that way? why do we not value a "floor sweeper" but not blink an eye when paris hilton sweeps a floor for hundreds of dollars and does a half ass job of it for our entertainment business executives and inspirational speakers often say that something is only as strong as it's weakest link then why are our weakest links eligible for food stamps? It's not that the floor sweeper isn't valued. It's that the job doesn't require a whole lot of skill to do. Certainly, a high quality janitorial job does require more skill than a low quality job, but those that can perform at a higher quality of work should be paid more, if quality is the main concern. If the only concern is that a low quality is required and anything above that isn't worth paying more for, then, that guy that can provide a higher quality job in the same amount of time, will likely not be satisfied with the pay and should be able to look for a position that rewards for the quality of the job, too. "Working hard" doesn't necessarily mean heavy, physical labor. That certainly is hard work, but open heart surgery isn't heavy physical labor, but certainly isn't easy, either. There are plenty of people who hold the floor sweepers of the world in higher esteem than the Paris Hiltons of the world.

MercTech -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/9/2014 9:11:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown So I'm curios,where do Americans get the idea that working harder makes you wealthier it hasn't been the case for me,and I'm sure it hasn't been the case for many people out there Work does not equal wealth The concept that hard work and honesty makes you successful was really summed up an ingrained in the national psyche by Horatio Alger. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Alger,_Jr. An example of the type of writing: http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/4997/

Moonhead -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/9/2014 11:06:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech The concept that hard work and honesty makes you successful was really summed up an ingrained in the national psyche by Horatio Alger. And people stopped taking it seriously quite a while back, like many other ideas from the 19th century.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/10/2014 1:19:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech The concept that hard work and honesty makes you successful was really summed up an ingrained in the national psyche by Horatio Alger. And people stopped taking it seriously quite a while back, like many other ideas from the 19th century. Shoot for the stars....and you'll surely hit something higher than had you aimed lower. Shoot for less....and you'll hit it as well. The folks who still believe in stories like Horatio Alger generally aim for the stars. Few of them will ever hit anything very high at all, but they'll all hit....something....higher. Some of them however, will make it to the stars. The ones who aim low will make it to Wednesday.

PyrotheClown -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/10/2014 5:28:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri It's not that the floor sweeper isn't valued. It's that the job doesn't require a whole lot of skill to do. Certainly, a high quality janitorial job does require more skill than a low quality job, but those that can perform at a higher quality of work should be paid more, if quality is the main concern. If the only concern is that a low quality is required and anything above that isn't worth paying more for, then, that guy that can provide a higher quality job in the same amount of time, will likely not be satisfied with the pay and should be able to look for a position that rewards for the quality of the job, too. "Working hard" doesn't necessarily mean heavy, physical labor. That certainly is hard work, but open heart surgery isn't heavy physical labor, but certainly isn't easy, either. There are plenty of people who hold the floor sweepers of the world in higher esteem than the Paris Hiltons of the world. that's how things are supposed to be,and indeed it does work out that way...sometimes... Buutttt lets look at a (bad) example,an average co-pilot makes round $20,000 a year That's roughly the same as your average waitress over at dennys who's biggest skill is remembering who ordered "eggs over my hammy". Did I mention that I got paid more to work construction then I did to interact with marines in arabic?Cause I'm pretty sure there's a lot more folks who know how to put up a wall then people who know that doing so was to"Beenoj eidar".....altho I did prefer slapping marines in the face and yelling "Imshi Kafir!" Don't even get me started on how little public school teachers get,especially compared to other professions with similar education requirements . All this is small fry's compared to the ones in question,the infamous 1% Heck,I'd say that the top 25% get paid FAR MORE THEN THEY COULD EVER BE WORTH!! and I doubt that much in the way of "work" or "skill" is what gets many of them there. So why do we(Americans)pretend that the "trickle down economy"isn't complete horse shit? Why do we pretend that those of us making barely nuff to survive shouldn't be allowed to get a lil more so that they might thrive while there are those of us making more then enough to allow generations of their own progeny to thrive purely on their accumulated wealth alone long after the original accumulator has died? We're the worlds largest developed economy,yet we have one of the largest population of people living in poverty in the developed world? Where's the balance? tea party's gathered to denounce higher taxes and every conservative talking head nodded in agreement,but when demonstrations and pickets are raised to increase the general pay of those most needy,the conservative talking heads argue that it can't be afforded. Call me a commie,but I think we need a "maximum wage" the highest paid person in a company should only make xxxx times more then the lowest Lets see em pass that through congress lol

PyrotheClown -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/10/2014 5:37:26 AM)
Then again what do I know,I think that one idiot coming up with a good joke is worth a million scientists making h bombs

subfever -> RE: Ventura Slaps the 1% Hard (3/10/2014 3:52:25 PM)
FR quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri It's not that the floor sweeper isn't valued. It's that the job doesn't require a whole lot of skill to do. Certainly, a high quality janitorial job does require more skill than a low quality job, but those that can perform at a higher quality of work should be paid more, if quality is the main concern. If the only concern is that a low quality is required and anything above that isn't worth paying more for, then, that guy that can provide a higher quality job in the same amount of time, will likely not be satisfied with the pay and should be able to look for a position that rewards for the quality of the job, too. "Working hard" doesn't necessarily mean heavy, physical labor. That certainly is hard work, but open heart surgery isn't heavy physical labor, but certainly isn't easy, either. quote: ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown Buutttt lets look at a (bad) example,an average co-pilot makes round $20,000 a year That's roughly the same as your average waitress over at dennys who's biggest skill is remembering who ordered "eggs over my hammy". Did I mention that I got paid more to work construction then I did to interact with marines in arabic?Cause I'm pretty sure there's a lot more folks who know how to put up a wall then people who know that doing so was to"Beenoj eidar".....altho I did prefer slapping marines in the face and yelling "Imshi Kafir!" Don't even get me started on how little public school teachers get,especially compared to other professions with similar education requirements . Within our current monetary-economic system, supply and demand are the primary drivers of worker income. One might consider... if there were 10 million open heart specialists looking for work in the US, what could they be had for? Something many folks fail to realize is that the demand for manufacturing and service will continue to be effected by technology for the foreseeable future: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2013/03/19/Welcome-to-the-Jobless-US-Manufacturing-Boom quote: ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown So why do we(Americans)pretend that the "trickle down economy"isn't complete horse shit? Why? Because people are either ignorant from not paying enough attention, or they choose to see only what they want to see (filter) by way of bias and/or cognitive dissonance. The only "trickle down" effect we've seen since the advent of deregulation in 1980, is the elite pissing down upon the commoners. And it's gotten even worse. Since the multimillion dollar bailout of 2008, 95% of the subsequent wealth has gone to the top 1%. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we're not going to beat the elite at their own game. The game is rigged. They create money via debt. They own the important land. They have the politicians and judges in their back pockets. They own the mainstream media. From my perspective, we've reached the point of no return. Under the current system, the very best the 99% would be able to do is demand a few more crumbs from the elite. And even that would take an enormous amount of effort and coordination, seeing how ineffective OWS was. Even if the commoners put it all together and are lucky enough to extract a few more crumbs, this would still leave us with all the issues I mentioned in post # 65 anyway... which curiously, no one but cloudboy even touched. Well... this partisan sandbox that most of you thrive and relish in, is exactly where the elite want you to play. They want us divided and distracted. They want our time, energy and thoughts focused and expended within the parameters of the current system, because they want the existing system to remain intact... for it serves them far better than it serves us. Mark my words here, they will continue pushing the walls in on us, to see just how much we will tolerate. What we're seeing is the natural evolution of a system that rewards self-interest and ego more than anything. They don't care about us, or the environment. They are behaving pathologically. The notion that all we need to do is tweak the system a little to the right or a little to the left to suit our own political ideology, which we've been carefully and brilliantly conditioned to do, will only serve to maintain the status quo. The system needs to be dismantled.

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