I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 6:36:20 AM)

Someone posted this: https://fetlife.com/users/643072/posts/2090379

Basically, it commends subs for safewording.

When I first read it, I was in 100% agreement. As a Top, I have to concern myself about me enjoying myself, and about my bottom hating/loving what I do, but within the bounds of what she can take. If she safewords properly, that makes my job easier. Simply put, a proper scene is the responsibility of both parties (although more the Top's responsibility IMO), and the writing tries to lay more of that on the bottom.

Then I thought some more. One of the reasons people like to bottom is that they get to give up control.

So I'd like to hear from you sub types...

What do you think about this writing, encouraging subs to be more cognizant of safewording? Do you resent the extra responsibility? Or welcome it?



peppermint -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 7:47:00 AM)

I have always felt that safewords are a two way street. The top must trust that the bottom will safeword if there is a need. The bottom must trust that the top will heed the safeword.

The first dominant I ever played with told me he would make me say red. In fact, he wanted me to say red. So when he created a sensation that was totally unexpected and harsh I said red as he'd told me I must. Some submissives feel as if they'd let their dominant down when they safeword. He taught me that it was necessary that I did use a safeword when the circumstance was right.

Yes, I enjoy giving up control. Yes, my dominant enjoys that I give up control to him. However, giving up control does not mean I give up all responsibility to keep myself safe. In the end it is me that gets harmed if something doesn't go right and the top doesn't realize that I'm in a bad space. In the end it is me that gets harmed if something doesn't go right and I never safeword.

I do not resent nor welcome the responsibility to safeword. It is just part of our play. He doesn't have to worry about taking things too far as he knows I will safeword if necessary. I don't have to worry about him taking things further than I can handle because I will safeword. So rather than being a burden safewords are merely a way to free us to play hard and have fun when we do play.

Gary and I have been together for nearly 9 years now. We never play without a safeword. Have I ever had to use my safeword? NO. However, it's there. We just happen to enjoy the same intensity of play together or something. Maybe we've just come to read each other so very well that a safeword hasn't needed to be verbalized yet.



kalikshama -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 8:29:19 AM)

For those not on Fet, or who do not like to click on links, etc:

Thank You for Saying Red!

(Sorry for this being disjointed as hell. I was just trying to spit this out quickly, and hope to revise it later.) Also, TW for brief mentions of rape and consent violations.

This is to the subs, slaves, bottoms, switches, masochists, and other people that want someone to “do stuff to you”.

Thank you for saying red. Thank you for saying yellow. Thank you for saying “I changed my mind.” Thank you for reminding me that my hand was drifting awfully close to the area we agreed was off-limits.

I’m sorry that someone made you feel that your worth as a person was based in how much of a beating you can take.

I’m sorry that someone told you that you were being a “bad sub” or “topping from the bottom” when you told them there was a problem.

I’m sorry that someone tried to convince you that nobody would play with someone who had “so many stupid rules”.

Thank you for being strong.

I’m a sadist. I want to hurt you, and I’m going to have fun doing it. I want to do all the horrible things you've got locked away in that "secret" folder of bookmarks. And I'll giggle while I do it.

But only with your consent.

It’s one of my biggest nightmares to accidentally cross that line. I’ve been raped and even the worst time still didn’t feel as bad as the time a partner told me “Yeah…I didn’t actually like that, but I felt like I shouldn’t say no. I didn’t want you to get mad.” I was devastated. I cried. I hated myself. Recovery has taken a long time, but I’m still scared.

I’m not the only one. Lots of tops I’ve spoken to want to know “If a yes isn’t enough to be absolutely sure about consent, how are we supposed to know?” We don’t want to abuse you; we want to have fun, and we want YOU to enjoy yourself.

I’ve said it a lot: If I don’t know you can say No, then your yes doesn’t mean anything to me.

So when I hear you say Red, Yellow, “That’s not what we agreed to”, or even “This isn’t working for me”, YOU are the one I want to play with. Not the “super-bottom” on the stage telling everyone how much they can take. Definitely not the person I just met who keeps telling I can “do whatever I want” to them because they “trust me so much already”.
You: the one who asks “I kind of want to try needles, but I’ve never done it, so could we just try one, and then see if I want more instead of jumping straight to a whole scene?”
You: the one who calls Red, Yellow, or uses Stop and No for their actual meanings, and isn’t ashamed of it.
You: the one who mentions that your hand is going a little numb so I can adjust the restraints. That mentions I got a little close to your spine.
You: the one who wants to negotiate things we WANT to do, not just have a list of hard limits, and trust in my psychic powers to pace the scene.
You: the one who asks me how much experience I’ve got, and asks to see my safety equipment before the scene starts.
You: the one who asks to watch me play with someone else first.
You: the one who thinks to throw a “green” in from time to time so I know you’re still enjoying yourself.
You: the one who says that certain types of play are reserved for once we know each other better.
You: the one who wants a friend/partner along to watch. And who wants to play in public.

Why? Because I can trust you with my biggest fear, and know you’ll honor that. We can negotiate everything in detail, and play there. Or we can play around in a much larger category, and I know it’s going to be okay.

You are the ones that let me go to extremes, and try new and amazing and intense things. And I’m safe.

I can't thank you enough for being you.



kalikshama -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 8:46:34 AM)

When we were new to each other, my best former play partner spent our first few sessions deliberately seeking out my Yellow for various implements and activities. This was a great way for him to get to know me, and me to give up the psychological hangup of Yellow. With other partners, I'd wait too long and it would turn into a Red and we'd need to end the scene.

I had to Red with another guy, who said, with disappointment, "I was watching you. You were fine." Well, I wasn't fine, I was having a panic attack. This was our first scene and he did not know me well enough.

I think it's dangerous for Doms or subs to put all the responsibility on the Dom right off the bat.



Missokyst -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 10:42:12 AM)

I like his take.
While I don't use safe words themselves, I do believe in speaking up when something is not working.  Once I stepped out of a scene when my top invited someone to spank me.  HELL NO.  In this stuff we do we have to learn to be proactive.  Some use safe words, some like me will be more upfront.
Communication is a tool, use it.



shadowborn61 -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 10:44:02 AM)

I like this writing and feel that it should be the subs place to safeword when they need to. That said i know a submissive that always feels she let the Dominant down by safewording but not being her i could not say if she is enduring things that she doesn't like or goes farther than she would like because of it.
It's like the author said they are trusting the submissive with their own mental safety because IMO any Dominant that doesn't worry about consent violation is not one i want to play with. Now i don't mean that i want them to worry with every action they perform on me but i do want them to at least be aware that it can happen by accident through no fault of theirs if say i am so zoned that i couldn't safeword if i wanted to.

Now i have never been that far gone but i have read of others who have, not sure if they are telling the truth or just trying to make their experience sound more awesome,
But if as a Dominant you ever play with me you have to trust that i will use a safe word if i need to and that i know the difference between a RED! and a yellow. I have not played that much or with that many but in negotiation tell them i like to have them ask occasionally "where are you" that allows me to tell them so they know where i am and if i am flying to high.
It most definitely my responsibility to tell you the Dominant where i am at with the scene because i can be a real pain slut with a good warm up and i do not want you stopping out of concern for me just when i am "taking flight" if you are in doubt ask me i will answer you.



nyx84 -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 10:54:05 AM)

The tops not psychic they can't know if your not liking whare things are going unless you tell them. So a safe word is a good thing to have.

I don't think it lays the responsibility on the bottom any more then the top. Its about communication and a safe word is a important to that. Things in a sceen or in play are sometimes not because they are ment but because of the reaction it causes. But that safe word means that I'm serious now I'm not playing with what I say.

The only time I have had to use my safe word was recently when I was being pinched/tickled. I normally hyperventilate when tickled to much so my partner is very careful normally but because he was focusing on the pinching which was the main part of what he was doing he did't realise how close I was to hyperventilating. It would have devastated him if he had pushed me that far without realising and he was glad I use my safe word when I did. I couldn't ask him to stop because he ignores that because its something I say any time anything remotely ticklish happens because I have a love hate relationship with it. I couldn't explain what was happening before he stop it would have required to many words.

And it in that kind of light I see that post some people do belive they have been a disappointment or that they have let someone down when they use there safe word. I see tge message saying you did not disappoint me or let me down thank you for letting me know how you feel


Edit for: yay I lost the ice cream



Kana -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 2:35:49 PM)

We play by Pearl Jam rules,"When she says no, you better stop"

We're freaking adults. We've been together for years. I'll hurt her,fuck her ass up.
But when we hit lines,like say a while back when her ankles were giving her problems and her shoulders would get numb, she'd tell me,like the mature people we are. Safety matters
Play rough, better know the rules.
When you dance on the edge,it's always best to be sure of your parachute



shiftyw -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 2:44:27 PM)

I'm responsible to let him know if something is wrong.
BUT its his responsibility to listen to me when I say when, and FURTHERMORE- its on the top to not make me feel ashamed or "less subby" for it.
Its a two way street, with equal responsibility in my opinion, no one can read your mind- communication is important.
I just say Red- or hum if I'm gagged. Its not that I'm not upfront about whats wrong- it just stops everything, and then we communicate the problem.



bearcatw125 -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 3:07:45 PM)

It's always been the sub's responsibility to communicate his concerns or discomfort to the Top/Dom. It's not a new concept. Being in a D/s relationship does not release the sub of personal responsibility, because no one else is going to be able to do it better than the sub.

Obviously this responsibility placed on the sub does not excuse the top/dom from paying attention during a scene. She still had to pay attention to the non-verbal or incoherent communication coming from the sub.

I guess it's a good message that says 'a true sub isn't determined by how well he takes a whipping, but rather how well he can communicate'. I know I can do a whole lot better in the communication department, but that is because I have a lack of experience and it's hard for me to describe my hard and soft limits, but I do know that it's fine to tell someone that I don't like something and it's ok for me to expect them to respect my boundries.



littlewonder -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 5:45:19 PM)

Sorry, didn't bother reading the link.

I'll just say I have never in my entire life in any relationship or play or casual whatever, used or had a safeword.

Instead I use plain old English.

"Hey, my arm is going numb." He stops to check on it and then we either continue if he feels I'm safe enough to do so or he quits because he feels I'm not safe enough to do so.

I don't get the whole purpose of safewords. It would take me longer to remember the safeword than to just yell out "FUCK! I just sprained my ankle!".



kalikshama -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 5:50:33 PM)

Ya, I do the "my arm is going numb" thing too, but the beauty of having safewords is that you are then free to say "no no no no no no no no no no no."



littlewonder -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 5:53:33 PM)

heh. I say nononononono all the time. For some reason it doesn't seem to get me anywhere. [:D]



smileforme50 -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 6:00:11 PM)

I've been VERY lucky in that the Tops I have played with have all had a very good "sixth sense" and have somehow managed to read me before I ever safeworded....except for ONE time. ONE time I was playing with a man that I played with many, many times and knows me very well. But this one time, I got a bad cramp in my neck. If I hadn't said anything, he might not have cued into the fact that I wasn't comfortable.

As a sub/bottom I like the idea of letting go and letting the Dom/Top take over and it's a fantasy to think that he can do it without ANY feedback from me. But that's what it is....a fantasy and nothing else. Even if you play with someone on a regular basis for years and they know every little cue you might send up, there's always a chance that something can change, something can feel different. The Dom/Top can't be expected to read the sub/bottom's mind. We're all human and no one is perfect.



pg4g -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 6:07:47 PM)

I have a safe word, but it's there for physical safety and it's one I'm trained in my job to use for dire emergencies. So I better be about to break a leg or lose circulation in a part of my body before I call it. So it really is a safe word, not an "enjoyment word".

He knows he's always pushing me too far, already. That's the point. If I'm not going "damn this kills fucking stop" then it's not hard enough. That's half the point: to endure hell, to get lost in it.

I can understand for people who just want to be able to go to see how much they can tolerate while still being enjoyable or acceptable or endurable, but this isn't me.

I think it's important at the start of a relationship to get to know your sub's limits. Talk. Experiment. Find your partner and learn seriously to read them.



shiftyw -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 6:53:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Sorry, didn't bother reading the link.

I'll just say I have never in my entire life in any relationship or play or casual whatever, used or had a safeword.

Instead I use plain old English.

"Hey, my arm is going numb." He stops to check on it and then we either continue if he feels I'm safe enough to do so or he quits because he feels I'm not safe enough to do so.

I don't get the whole purpose of safewords. It would take me longer to remember the safeword than to just yell out "FUCK! I just sprained my ankle!".


What about, and I think I know your answer to this, if you can't handle it emotionally?

To me an emotional trigger isn't an "OH FUCK" moment- and sometimes not so readily put into words.

ETA- I'm also not just specifically asking you...just a general question I have for everyone who doesn't have a set safeword.



littlewonder -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 7:02:37 PM)

If I can't handle it emotionally then again, I just tell him, "I'm having trouble dealing with this because......" and then he decides where to go from there.

I can't say that's ever happened to us though. Usually my emotional stuff doesn't come out until I'm starting to drop, not during.





SeekingTrinity -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 7:15:04 PM)

~FRing it~

My guy and I actually don't use safe words either. We will, like LW, express with words (if we can) that something hurts. Or we both rely on our ability to read the other...but we are 2 years into this together, so we have that connection established. We are at a point where we can just sense when the other is in distress.

In general, I think safe words are great and by all means use them if you need them. No harm, no foul, no disappointment here if someone who bottoms to me does.



slavekate80 -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 7:24:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

I have a safe word, but it's there for physical safety and it's one I'm trained in my job to use for dire emergencies. So I better be about to break a leg or lose circulation in a part of my body before I call it. So it really is a safe word, not an "enjoyment word".

He knows he's always pushing me too far, already. That's the point. If I'm not going "damn this kills fucking stop" then it's not hard enough. That's half the point: to endure hell, to get lost in it.

I can understand for people who just want to be able to go to see how much they can tolerate while still being enjoyable or acceptable or endurable, but this isn't me.

I think it's important at the start of a relationship to get to know your sub's limits. Talk. Experiment. Find your partner and learn seriously to read them.


This captures my feelings on it as well. I do set up a safeword, but it's not for comfort. If I use it, it means I think my safety is in danger, and he needs to know about it and make adjustments, or at least check carefully and determine to our satisfaction that I was wrong, before continuing. I personally feel much worse about stopping scenes for reasons other than major safety concerns than about doing things I'm not comfortable with or don't like, and now reserve the safeword for prevention of serious injuries and illness.



littlewonder -> RE: I'd like to get subs' takes on this writing. (3/6/2014 8:12:59 PM)

I just think I would be too tongue tied and hazy in the head to remember a safeword when playing. I'd be dead by the time I could remember what it was lol...."eerrr...uuummm...fuck...I'm in pain...I'm having a heart attack! What the fuck is that word???? Fuck! No, that's not it!". [8D]



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