Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Republicans and Legal Pot


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Republicans and Legal Pot Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/10/2014 12:30:32 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I'll be glad to


As a father of a drug addicted daughter that has destroyed her life... I would sentence every drug abuser to mandatory treatment... no jail.

Then I would try... and if convicted execute every dealer, producer, and supplier on up....no exceptions

If foreign nations refused or were unable to stop the growing of drugs imported into the US I would destroy the crops and production and refinement centers...no exceptions.

That would stop the drugs in America within a year. I don't care if they sell drugs anywhere else in the world.

I am not talking about the particular drug of this thread... but the drug war for all illegal drugs.

Butch



Has it ever occurred to you, Butch, that your daughter might have had better success with her condition if she hadn't been forced to operate in the criminal underworld? Think of who she never would have gotten mixed up with outside the need to find her drugs, or pay the prices of them? If getting caught meant help, instead of jail? Without the stigma? Without using drugs where she had no idea of purity or potency?

The Constitution has suffered quite enough damage courtesy of this failure, you'll not be shredding the rest of it. There are places in the world where you can be executed for possession of marijuana and guess what? There are still people there who get high.


Why? Because alcoholics have "better" success with their addiction just because alcohol is legal??

I actually do support legalizing marijuana, but I don't believe stigma/legalization has any relationship with dealing with addiction. If that were true we would have NO alcoholics. And this simply isn't true.

There are many reasons for legalizing marijuana, but this is not one of them.

Whether something is legal or not is not actually going to affect usage/addiction/addiction treatment.

What it does allow us to do is tax it, and reduce the need for law enforcement around it.

As for using alcohol/marijuana/any prescription drug/illegal recreational drugs……use at your own risk. Because the risks are real. And for some, the risks seem to be unavoidable. As we learn more about the genetic links to addiction, this cannot be overemphasized. For some people, any of these substances represents real risk to their long-term well being. For those not pre-disposed to addiction, it is a different story.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/10/2014 12:36:40 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Obama was going to close Gitmo in '08, and the House Democrats were going to end that pesky war in Iraq in 2006. Hearing them say it, and believing they'll do it are very different things.

Yes, keep in mind that Obama tried to close Gitmo - and the Radicals blocked him. And he tried to end the war in Iraq - but the Radicals fought him tooth and nail. Best laid plans of mice and well-meaning Democrats, I suppose.


The issue there is that Democrats span a range from conservative to progressive, while Republicans range from conservatives to moderate (at least before the RINO purge).

And that given Democrats may be liberal on one issue but conservative on another.

Then there's the feelings of the voters at home . . .



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/10/2014 12:38:16 PM >

(in reply to DaNewAgeViking)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/10/2014 3:38:37 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I'll be glad to


As a father of a drug addicted daughter that has destroyed her life... I would sentence every drug abuser to mandatory treatment... no jail.

Then I would try... and if convicted execute every dealer, producer, and supplier on up....no exceptions

If foreign nations refused or were unable to stop the growing of drugs imported into the US I would destroy the crops and production and refinement centers...no exceptions.

That would stop the drugs in America within a year. I don't care if they sell drugs anywhere else in the world.

I am not talking about the particular drug of this thread... but the drug war for all illegal drugs.

Butch



Has it ever occurred to you, Butch, that your daughter might have had better success with her condition if she hadn't been forced to operate in the criminal underworld? Think of who she never would have gotten mixed up with outside the need to find her drugs, or pay the prices of them? If getting caught meant help, instead of jail? Without the stigma? Without using drugs where she had no idea of purity or potency?

The Constitution has suffered quite enough damage courtesy of this failure, you'll not be shredding the rest of it. There are places in the world where you can be executed for possession of marijuana and guess what? There are still people there who get high.


Why? Because alcoholics have "better" success with their addiction just because alcohol is legal??

I actually do support legalizing marijuana, but I don't believe stigma/legalization has any relationship with dealing with addiction. If that were true we would have NO alcoholics. And this simply isn't true.

There are many reasons for legalizing marijuana, but this is not one of them.

Whether something is legal or not is not actually going to affect usage/addiction/addiction treatment.

What it does allow us to do is tax it, and reduce the need for law enforcement around it.

As for using alcohol/marijuana/any prescription drug/illegal recreational drugs……use at your own risk. Because the risks are real. And for some, the risks seem to be unavoidable. As we learn more about the genetic links to addiction, this cannot be overemphasized. For some people, any of these substances represents real risk to their long-term well being. For those not pre-disposed to addiction, it is a different story.

Again if your statement was true that it don't make a difference, why are there little to none meth addicts in holland. Of course legalisation makes a difference. Fucked up dealers will cut up coke and speed with ketamine to make it more addictive. That will less likely happen in legal markets.
Because growing is still illegal in holland the quality is getting worse because of criminal controlled money breeders plus they to will push haze on the market because it's more addictive.
So no take it from somebody who has seen it all first hand. I live this shit and I know any shit better then anybody here.

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/10/2014 10:58:23 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

From The Atlantic:

quote:

NATIONAL HARBOR, Md.—Christopher Beach was trying to defend keeping marijuana illegal to a roomful of conservatives, and it was not going well.

When Beach insisted the drug war has not been a complete failure, laughter rippled through the crowd.

When he said governments sometimes have to protect people from themselves, there were groans and boos.
One after another, audience members stood to quibble with his statistics and accuse him of bad faith. As the discussion drew to a close with yet another hostile blast in his direction, Beach mumbled into his microphone, "This is just getting more fun."

Beach's panel at the Conservative Political Action Conference, titled "Rocky Mountain High: Does Legalized Pot Mean Society's Going Up In Smoke?," was ostensibly a debate. I attended expecting to find conservatives divided on the question, which seems to pit Republican cultural conservatism against the party's ascendant libertarian strain.

But the discussion—which pitted Beach, a producer for the Morning in America radio show hosted by former Education Secretary Bill Bennett, against Mary Katharine Ham, a conservative blogger and Fox News contributor—turned out to be surprisingly one-sided.


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/03/the-republican-partys-pot-dilemma/284289/


I've been an active proponent of drug legalization a lot longer than my voter registration has said Republican. If there is anything that could turn me into a single-issue voter, this would be it. How the federal government will proceed with the legalizing states is the next giant hurdle to ending the horrific failed program of prohibition.

My gut says the party is going to get it wrong for 2016. My question will be whether the candidate will get it right anyway.

I'll also be watching the Democrat candidate. I certainly expect to hear the right noises from them, but there are a lot of government jobs on the line here. Obama was going to close Gitmo in '08, and the House Democrats were going to end that pesky war in Iraq in 2006. Hearing them say it, and believing they'll do it are very different things.


Well, to be fair to the Democrats (which I'm not entirely fond of doing), I learned recently that it was the Pubs that forced the Prez's hand on Gitmo.

Turns out he really did want to close it (tried desperately to do so) and he was forced to keep it open by the Pubs.

I'm glad he wasn't able to (close it....always thought that was a stupid gig) but, it was the Pubs that stopped him by Congressional edict.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/10/2014 11:25:19 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:


Well, to be fair to the Democrats (which I'm not entirely fond of doing), I learned recently that it was the Pubs that forced the Prez's hand on Gitmo.

Turns out he really did want to close it (tried desperately to do so) and he was forced to keep it open by the Pubs.

I'm glad he wasn't able to (close it....always thought that was a stupid gig) but, it was the Pubs that stopped him by Congressional edict.


I guess I'm out of date on my jargon. What are "Pubs"?

BTW, there would be a huge difference in closing the Naval Station at Guantanamo Bay and closing the detention center located there. I do believe the president wanted to close the detention center but didn't intend closing the Naval Station. Gad, it would be hell closing that base. The problems with removing the minefield between the base and mainland Cuba alone have me shuddering. (Yes, I've been there)

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/11/2014 12:14:58 AM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:


Well, to be fair to the Democrats (which I'm not entirely fond of doing), I learned recently that it was the Pubs that forced the Prez's hand on Gitmo.

Turns out he really did want to close it (tried desperately to do so) and he was forced to keep it open by the Pubs.

I'm glad he wasn't able to (close it....always thought that was a stupid gig) but, it was the Pubs that stopped him by Congressional edict.


I guess I'm out of date on my jargon. What are "Pubs"?

BTW, there would be a huge difference in closing the Naval Station at Guantanamo Bay and closing the detention center located there. I do believe the president wanted to close the detention center but didn't intend closing the Naval Station. Gad, it would be hell closing that base. The problems with removing the minefield between the base and mainland Cuba alone have me shuddering. (Yes, I've been there)


RePubs....and I concur...the intent was the prison.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/11/2014 1:18:36 AM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
FR

"Shorts sold meth for a short time,  he told me, but complains that the people he sold to were unable to wait, and liable to do something crazy. He prefers to deal only with professionals — and, he says, the professionals do cocaine.

“I like to sell to the lawyers, the doctors, you know, people who have something to lose.”

The doctors and lawyers come into the bar where I’ve met Shorts, and I watch them from a distance. I hear them talking about the lines they’re doing or have done, about waking up still fucked up, about 36-hour shifts at the hospital. The drugs ease the stress of lost cases and long shifts. The drugs help them keep up or wind down, make them feel pepped up, ready to go."


Everyday professionals trying to live. People you interact with everyday. The cop that writes you a speeding ticket. The nurse that treats you.

Everybody does drugs, but it’s the poor who go to jail for it, ” another dealer, named Cruz, told me.

Cruz had grown up broke. At one point, he, his mom and his brother were living on $9,800 a year. “We tried to go through the bank. No financial institutions would lend to us, because we didn’t have repossess-able assets.”

Without the money Cruz made selling drugs, he never could have opened his legal, and so far successful, business. Once he had the money he needed, he stopped selling blow. When I asked him why, he told me, “If you don’t get addicted to the drugs, you get addicted to the money.”


At least he was smart about it. He sld until he got enough to start his own business an then got out.

“The drug lords don’t want [drugs] legalized,” Selander explains, “because it would reduce their profits.” A 2012 study by the Mexican Institute of Competitiveness concluded that if weed were made legal in just three American states — Oregon, Washington and Colorado — Mexican cartels would lose $4.6 billion dollars.

But it’s not only criminals that profit. Selander points out that law enforcement agencies would lose millions of dollars and thousands of jobs should the drug war end. “Yes, there is a lot of money on the black market. But there is also a lot of money for those agencies working drugs.”

The federal agencies who hold $1.6 billion in seized assets; the local police forces that make millions off confiscated cash, property and cars; the lucrative private prisons fed by drug convictions? All of them stand to lose millions if drugs are made legal.

Rico puts it this way: “They don’t care about anyone on the streets. They care about getting their pocket money.”




_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/11/2014 4:45:59 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
Again if your statement was true that it don't make a difference, why are there little to none meth addicts in holland. Of course legalisation makes a difference. Fucked up dealers will cut up coke and speed with ketamine to make it more addictive. That will less likely happen in legal markets.
Because growing is still illegal in holland the quality is getting worse because of criminal controlled money breeders plus they to will push haze on the market because it's more addictive.
So no take it from somebody who has seen it all first hand. I live this shit and I know any shit better then anybody here.


I said the stigma of something being illegal vs. legal would not have an effect on drug use/addiction/recovery.

You are talking about the adulteration of drugs. I wasn't referring to that at all.

In addition, people get addicted to prescription opiates that were legally prescribed to them. How does legality, in and of itself, remove the risk of addiction for certain substances? The opiate problem we have in the states is due neither to them being legal nor due to adulteration. It has to do with the fact that opiates are highly addictive. Period.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/12/2014 10:31:59 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
I made a clear statement about what illegal dealers do, wich is first hand info and it makes a big difference. Now your bringing an example like prescription opiates to the table to enhance your nonsense?

Funny these prescription junkie loosers are again an american invention BECAUSE YOUR DOPE SUCKS.
And to be honest I have a very wide disdain for fuckin loosers who choose every day to stick in their addiction.
And if you got flimsy parents, well your chances to beat addiction fdon't grow of course.
But let me tell you, I have talked to all sorts of junkies and there is only one common denominator. LOOSERS.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 3/12/2014 10:34:42 AM >

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/12/2014 10:34:24 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
The question is how does legality in and of itself prevent addiction? Do you have an answer for that?

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/12/2014 11:20:56 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking


Yes, keep in mind that Obama tried to close Gitmo - and the Radicals blocked him. And he tried to end the war in Iraq - but the Radicals fought him tooth and nail. Best laid plans of mice and well-meaning Democrats, I suppose.


I realize that this may come as a shock, DNAV, but incompetence isn't an excuse, it's still a fucking FAIL. He made the promise, probably meant it, but didn't have the skills to get it done.


Skills like, what? Closing it by executive order? The GOP would be HOWLING at that.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/12/2014 11:24:51 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

What does that have to do with anything..politicians make no profit from prisons. Prisons in general are a financial drain on society not a profit.

Butch


Private prison companies make money on prisons. I'm curious how much they donate to political campaigns.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/12/2014 4:00:22 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

The question is how does legality in and of itself prevent addiction? Do you have an answer for that?
It's simply a self revolving door. It is shown from cannabis data once the drug is legal, the number of users doesn't rise and the users become more responsible with recreational use. Mind this I call them users, they are not addicts when they smoke a bit in the weekend. Addiction is misuse. It is also because of the simple fact forbidden fruits are more tempting to the youth. Younlings like bein a little bad. Add that to the better quality of product and better circumstance, not having to buy from criminals it's a multifaceted consequence that brings about less addicts. In holland we have over 30 years of proven data on it and it works. But some knuckleheads are just too hardheaded and too much invested in competitive products (alcohol) that they will try to bury the truth in order to maintain their position.

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/12/2014 5:52:03 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

The question is how does legality in and of itself prevent addiction? Do you have an answer for that?
It's simply a self revolving door. It is shown from cannabis data once the drug is legal, the number of users doesn't rise and the users become more responsible with recreational use. Mind this I call them users, they are not addicts when they smoke a bit in the weekend. Addiction is misuse. It is also because of the simple fact forbidden fruits are more tempting to the youth. Younlings like bein a little bad. Add that to the better quality of product and better circumstance, not having to buy from criminals it's a multifaceted consequence that brings about less addicts. In holland we have over 30 years of proven data on it and it works. But some knuckleheads are just too hardheaded and too much invested in competitive products (alcohol) that they will try to bury the truth in order to maintain their position.



Yes but the post of mine you were referring to was talking about how legality is not going to affect addiction rates. In other words we will still have addicts. That's all I was trying to say. You were sounding there for a while like you were trying to argue that legalizing something means we won't have addicts. And that makes no sense because alcohol is legal, and we still have people who are addicted to alcohol. I am in favor of legalizing marijuana. I just wanted to make the comment that when it comes to drugs generally (whether legal/illegal, etc.) we, as a society, have to deal separately with overall addiction issues that will exist regardless of the legality/illegality of any specific drug.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/12/2014 6:11:24 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Why? Because alcoholics have "better" success with their addiction just because alcohol is legal??



You bet your sweet ass they do, FTP.

How many go blind, because they were sold methanol, instead of what they thought they were getting? How many get hauled off to jail for possession? How many turn to crime in order to pay the massively inflated street prices? Yes, both alcoholics, and the society at large, are better off with alcohol being legal.

We don't need to speculate. It has been tried. Perhaps google up "prohibition" and see how well it worked out.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/12/2014 6:24:08 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Why? Because alcoholics have "better" success with their addiction just because alcohol is legal??



You bet your sweet ass they do, FTP.

How many go blind, because they were sold methanol, instead of what they thought they were getting? How many get hauled off to jail for possession? How many turn to crime in order to pay the massively inflated street prices? Yes, both alcoholics, and the society at large, are better off with alcohol being legal.

We don't need to speculate. It has been tried. Perhaps google up "prohibition" and see how well it worked out.




Where in my sentence do I say anything about blindness, jail, or crime. I reference one thing. ADDICTION.

My question is how does alcohol being legal make it any easier for people who are addicted to alcohol to get sober. My point is that overcoming addiction is still extremely difficult and that the legality of the substance you are using does not affect the ease with which you are able to overcome the addiction. Anyone who thinks that does not understand addiction. Let us be reminded that many of the drug addicts we currently have are addicted to prescription opiates (i.e., LEGAL drugs). This does not make it easier for them to overcome their addiction. Sobriety is a difficult path whatever one's addiction.

I am not going to comment on the other things you raise because at no point was I discussing those things. I am talking about ADDICTION.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/12/2014 7:01:28 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Just me... but I want to end addiction... not make it medically possible and acceptable... drugs destroy the mind and body no matter how pure and regulated.

I don't want a heroin addict operating a high lift or driving an over the road vehicle... even if he or she is taking pure chemicals. Also drugs like heroin because of there very nature require stronger and stronger doses for the high...eventually the dose will kill. There will still have to be laws regulating what jobs can be had when addicted... and those laws will be broken just as drug laws today.

But... lets say free access to drugs... by the way who will supply them and do you think they will not drain the economic standing of an addict...manages to hold addictions at current levels... OK that is one way... A significant population dependent on drugs. Where my way, though harsh, will not only force users into treatment from lack of product but will significantly limit future addictions.

I think my option will save more lives... of course at the expense of your personal right to kill yourself.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/12/2014 7:05:22 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MrBukani)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/12/2014 7:18:18 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I am talking about ADDICTION.



Yep. So am I. Wouldn't every one of those things pose an obstacle to getting sober, or simply living life as functionally as possible?

This may come as a shock to some, but the world is full of completely functional alcoholics who go to work, pay their taxes, and mow their lawns. They don't go to meetings. They don't go to rehab. They just go to the liquor store, and then go home. They are not an evil menace. They don't need to be eradicated. It ain't your job, or society's job, to "fix" them.

Why are they able to do this? All that stuff YOU AREN'T TALKING ABOUT.


_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/12/2014 7:20:19 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I want to end addiction...



I want a pony and a red wagon. Let me know if Santa brings it to you, and give me the address so I can send my letter too.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Republicans and Legal Pot - 3/12/2014 7:22:12 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
I'd rather he bring some flowers for a grave.

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Republicans and Legal Pot Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109