RE: Obama Care (Full Version)

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Phydeaux -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 3:33:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lilcracker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Score in Colorado:

84,000 people signed up.

249,000 people cancelled.

Net: 160,000 people lose insurance. And of course tax payers are on the hook for the subsidies.

Source please OP....and just an FYI....I get free health care through my employer....thank you very much President Obama because as of January first I could add my married child who no longer lives with me or relies on me for support to my health care insurance (she is under 26 and prior to Affordable Health Care Reform I could not have added her because she is married) and it does not cost me ANYTHING. If she got insurance through her husband his employer would have charged them an additional $300 per month just to add her.


There are a lot mistakes here.

1. "Free" health care through your employer isn't "free". Your employer pays for it.
2. While the cost for adding your child to your account may not be a charge to you, it means your employer is paying for it.
3. Saying that your married daughter doesn't rely on you for support is clearly wrong, if you are providing her health insurance.

As for sources - are people really that bad at google here? Really?
http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_24469353/obamacare-nearly-250-000-colorado-health-policies-canceled#axzz2wRxiYwFH
http://coloradopeakpolitics.com/2014/01/08/breaking-sen-udall-pressured-insurance-division-to-revise-obamacare-numbers/

Oops. seems the number of cancellations are up to 340000: http://thecoloradoobserver.com/2014/03/more-coloradans-lose-insurance-under-obamacare/

The original article was posted at the aggregator realclearpolitics.com. However, this source:http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25376620/colorado-health-insurance-sign-ups-gaining-momentum-deadline#axzz2wRxiYwFH confirms the number of signups. And the previous sources update the total number of cancellations.

Feel free to spin.




Lucylastic -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 5:29:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

Because he said he paid to aetna commercial insurance.
Thats what you get for jumping in mouth first, Your ignorance pointed right back atcha





So, why, if I am paying for full coverage to an Aetna commercial plan, am I not "paying my fair share"?

I didnt say you didnt pay your fair share. Not anywhere that is your illusiion, please point out where I said you werent paying fairly... I said, you were still in a pool of people

So, why did you call her ignorant?
Even if she were wrong, and she is not, she does not deserve such treatment. Do you always post like this?
Because he asked why I insulted you when you had insulted me first and because his post was ignorant as usual, and he is more than capable of standing up for himself.
spin boys spin..you are part of the " healthcare system that is fucked and still defending it and wanting to deny healthcare to others simply because YOU have the means.
Boy you dish it but you cant take it....either of you






lilcracker -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 5:33:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: lilcracker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Score in Colorado:

84,000 people signed up.

249,000 people cancelled.

Net: 160,000 people lose insurance. And of course tax payers are on the hook for the subsidies.

Source please OP....and just an FYI....I get free health care through my employer....thank you very much President Obama because as of January first I could add my married child who no longer lives with me or relies on me for support to my health care insurance (she is under 26 and prior to Affordable Health Care Reform I could not have added her because she is married) and it does not cost me ANYTHING. If she got insurance through her husband his employer would have charged them an additional $300 per month just to add her.


There are a lot mistakes here.

1. "Free" health care through your employer isn't "free". Your employer pays for it.
2. While the cost for adding your child to your account may not be a charge to you, it means your employer is paying for it.
3. Saying that your married daughter doesn't rely on you for support is clearly wrong, if you are providing her health insurance.

As for sources - are people really that bad at google here? Really?
http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_24469353/obamacare-nearly-250-000-colorado-health-policies-canceled#axzz2wRxiYwFH
http://coloradopeakpolitics.com/2014/01/08/breaking-sen-udall-pressured-insurance-division-to-revise-obamacare-numbers/

Oops. seems the number of cancellations are up to 340000: http://thecoloradoobserver.com/2014/03/more-coloradans-lose-insurance-under-obamacare/

The original article was posted at the aggregator realclearpolitics.com. However, this source:http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25376620/colorado-health-insurance-sign-ups-gaining-momentum-deadline#axzz2wRxiYwFH confirms the number of signups. And the previous sources update the total number of cancellations.

Feel free to spin.


1.If it costs me nothing it is FREE for me....
2.If it costs me nothing to add my daughter to my health plan and cost her nothing it is still FREE...for both of us
3. And what I meant by not relying on me for support is clearly RIGHT...I don't pay her rent, pay for her groceries, give her money for clothes, necessities...but since I was able to add to to my health insurance and it did not cost her or me anything to do so why not and no neither of us were relying on it....it just happened because Barack Obama made it easy for me to add it to my FREE health insurance.

Regarding your first source...Do you know why insurance policies were cancelled? Because they did not meet the Health Reform standards. I WORK for a health insurance company....some of our policies were cancelled....because they did not meet the standard and the people who had insurance policies that did not meet the new standard were switched to a plan that did meet the standard and in most cases cost them far less. These people were advised of this change MONTHS before the January 1st deadline...and you know what most people are using these new plans without complaining because they are getting MORE for less money.

Just an FYI I ran a search of my own
http://www.news-record.com/news/local_news/article_ed85d2cc-7cae-11e3-89be-0019bb30f31a.html

http://insurancenewsnet.com/oarticle/2014/02/12/number-of-michiganders-signing-up-for-health-care-coverage-levels-off-a-460240.html#.Uyo1y4X-Kxs

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2014/03/15/benefit-experts-agree-with-obama-that-aca-has-enough-enrolled/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/12/hhs-releases-new-enrollment-numbers/5423297/





GoddessManko -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 5:37:19 PM)


quote:


She is currently paying more in Federal taxes than most people? If she isn't currently paying in more than most, then your point means little to this conversation.



My mother has paid taxes for most of the past 40 years, as a HEALTHCARE PRACTITIONER. So yes, she made her contributions, thank you.
And apology accepted Arturus, no prob bud!




Lucylastic -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 5:37:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Because he said he paid to aetna commercial insurance.
Thats what you get for jumping in mouth first, Your ignorance pointed right back atcha
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4662981
I wasnt discussing the poor, or government mandated anything
I was discussing his comments about paying for everyones healthcare.
Id back off if I were you.


Actually, Lucy, you need to reread what Arturas wrote.
    quote:

    My current Aetna commercial coverage pays for births [1]and is not ever subsidized by anyone but the other premium payers in our risk pool. It is a commercial plan and we are not subsidized by taxpayers. We pay our equal share of the costs and so we don't pay less so others can pay more. We pay our own way.


His claim is that he pays his full share of premiums. He's not getting tax credits or anything like that to pay for his premiums.

Technically, he's not paying his way exclusively (which is why people do buy insurance), but is paying his full insurance plan premium.

His claim about GoddessManko's Mom and her 59¢ monthly premium, is that she isn't paying her full share of the premiums.

What is the cost for Canadian Health Insurance, or whatever it's called? In the UK, NHS is, IIRC, 8.2% of your income over the non-taxable portion.

Technically, he's not paying his way exclusively (which is why people do buy insurance), but is paying his full insurance plan premium.

that was my entire point, I Didnt mention taxpayers, or everyone in the world or how little or how much he pays,I pointed out he is NOT paying for EVERYONES healthcare, which is what he claimed. and I didnt even comment on what he said about GMs mum contributions, GM managed that quite nicely.
I said he was in a POOL ...no matter how big or small, a pool is based on the likelihood of risk.







Lucylastic -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 5:49:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

sorry I come from "reasonable countries," who do give a shit about the health of every citizen, your claim is bogus.

you pay into insurance or you pay in full directly to the hospital? Unless you pay cash, the truth is, every insurance plan is built on a pool of people
ANY insurance plan
And by having children, without paying the full cost to providers, you are having them pay for your fecundity.
Use an aspirin between the legs your self
Both of you!!!



Why on earth do you make the assumption that he *isn't* paying the full cost to providers?

Besides being rude to Arturas who as far as I know has not been rude to you, it seems a rather ignorant assumption.

Health care providers here charge private patients rates that are greatly in excess of costs to cover government mandated (but not paid for) coverage to the poor.



Because he said he paid to aetna commercial insurance.
Thats what you get for jumping in mouth first, Your ignorance pointed right back atcha
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4662981
I wasnt discussing the poor, or government mandated anything
I was discussing his comments about paying for everyones healthcare.
Id back off if I were you.




Lets correct a few ignorant assumptions on your part.

First, I was well aware he had Aetna insurance.

Second, Aetna sets its premiums at a rate such that Aetna (an insurance provider) has its costs plus profits met. So he certainly isnt shorting Aetna.

Third, you made the ignorant comment that he wasn't paying the full costs to health care providers. I kindly asked you to explain what you meant. And your reply was, per usual derisive.

You seem to lack the fundamental understanding that the way insurance works is that you pay the insurance company, the insurance company pays the health care provider.

So in no case is Arturas shorting health care providers anywhere. As I tried to explain to you, private insurance provides reimbursement rates that are, on the average, 30% greater than government reimbursement rates to healthcare providers.

As for backing off.. not a chance.


I dont give a shit about aetna, the size of his pool ....I I didnt say he was shorting aetna, LMFAO what a concept. like thats gonna happen, you are derisive, so thats how I deal with you, exactly the same.
I notice you skipped the insult part, what a surprise.....just obfuscation with making it all about insurance.
pot calling kettle grimy arse regarding derision.
if you cant stand the heat....get out of the kitchen. I refuse to treat you better than you treat anyone else.




Musicmystery -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 5:52:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Single Payer.

We have a winner!




thishereboi -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 5:56:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Single Payer.


When you say single payer are you referring to a system like the VA or CMS or are you talking about something totally different?




Lucylastic -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 5:57:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Single Payer.

We have a winner!

Absolutely




Arturas -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 6:51:21 PM)

By "Single Payer" the Obama Administration always meant a monopoly controlled by a Government bureaucracy like the I.R.S, the Social Security Administration and the Veterans Administration.

I'd rather not have such an entity control 1/3 of our economy and I'd also rather be in charge of my own destiny and by that I mean able to purchase the coverage I want at the price I want to pay, in other words, a market based insurance and health provider source rather than a draft into the United States Healthcare Corps. *shudder*





Lucylastic -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 6:57:05 PM)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkGrkNu6mDg




Arturas -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 7:03:17 PM)

quote:

Technically, he's not paying his way exclusively (which is why people do buy insurance), but is paying his full insurance plan premium.


Of course I am fully funding my health care costs technically and otherwise because nobody else is asked to reach into their tax pockets and pay my health care costs. I do this by purchasing coverage which then pays our way fully in addition to my payment from the health saving account I and Tam have also fully funded.




Arturas -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 7:23:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkGrkNu6mDg



Actually, I do get my way and I will continue to do so. I always control my own destiny. Except once in 1971 when another Government Agency wanted to enslave me, give me a gun and force me to walk around in jungles to kill people or be killed. Even then I joined the Air Force instead and chose my own path there. Self determination is what this Country is all about and is certainly what I am all about so nothing Obama does or will do can cause me to change the way I want to live, or pay my healthcare costs or what Doctor I go to because I will not let him. This is called freedom.




Owner59 -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 7:36:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkGrkNu6mDg



Actually, I do get my way and I will continue to do so. I always control my own destiny. Except once in 1971 when another Government Agency wanted to enslave me, give me a gun and force me to walk around in jungles to kill people or be killed. Even then I joined the Air Force instead and chose my own path there. Self determination is what this Country is all about and is certainly what I am all about so nothing Obama does or will do can cause me to change the way I want to live, or pay my healthcare costs or what Doctor I go to because I will not let him. This is called freedom.



Funny how cons always blame their own problems and short comings on the gubment.....




Phydeaux -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 8:10:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Single Payer.

We have a winner!

Absolutely



We get that you canucks et.al. like single payer. We're glad you live there. But the AMERICAN people still do not like or want obamacare.
Why is that a problem for you?




Phydeaux -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 8:13:24 PM)

Oh, and I did think this article was rather telling:

Obamacare premiums may increase 300% in some states... (nope, no death spiral here...).

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/insurers-obamacare-expect-premium-prices-180000930.html

Quoting a few relevent bits...


Health insurance premiums will likely skyrocket next year, despite the Obama administration’s consistent assurance that consumers will not experience sticker shock under the president’s health care law.
That’s according to industry insiders who told The Hill that they are expecting the price of monthly premiums to increase significantly. In some states, rates could increase by as much as 300 percent.


“There is extensive concern about rate increases next year,” said Avalere Health’s Vice President Caroline Pearson. “Particularly since early exchange enrollment is skewed toward older enrollees, some are concerned that plans will need to raise prices in 2015.”

A survey by HealthPocket.com found the deductibles on the exchange plans were 42 percent higher than employer based policies. But now, insurers say Obamacare consumers can expect to experience sticker shock from both premiums and deductibles.







Owner59 -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 8:26:01 PM)

The American people support the ACA, even republicans are saving money with it....


Former NH GOP Chairman Saves $1000/mo. On Obamacare And Still Complains


It more political opposition than a financial/value argument against the ACA.

The lunatic fringe would wholeheartedly and gleefully support bin-laden if he was running against the President...




Phydeaux -> RE: Obama Care (3/19/2014 8:36:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The American people support the ACA, even republicans are saving money with it....


Former NH GOP Chairman Saves $1000/mo. On Obamacare And Still Complains


It more political opposition than a financial/value argument against the ACA.

The lunatic fringe would wholeheartedly and gleefully support bin-laden if he was running against the President...


Oh yes, (snicker)

Rasmussen: 51% disapproval. http://www.politico.com/story/2014/02/obamacare-poll-103117.html
Gallup 54% disapproval:
57% of young millienials disapprove of obamacare http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/millennials-abandon-obama-and-obamacare-20131204
62% of americans oppose obama care: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/23/cnn-poll-heath-care-law-support-drops-to-all-time-low/
53% expect health care to get worse under obamacare http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

Nice to live in your own fantasy world.




thishereboi -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 5:25:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkGrkNu6mDg



Actually, I do get my way and I will continue to do so. I always control my own destiny. Except once in 1971 when another Government Agency wanted to enslave me, give me a gun and force me to walk around in jungles to kill people or be killed. Even then I joined the Air Force instead and chose my own path there. Self determination is what this Country is all about and is certainly what I am all about so nothing Obama does or will do can cause me to change the way I want to live, or pay my healthcare costs or what Doctor I go to because I will not let him. This is called freedom.



Funny how cons always blame their own problems and short comings on the gubment.....



Pot meet kettle, kettle this is pot [8|]




DesideriScuri -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 6:27:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
quote:

She is currently paying more in Federal taxes than most people? If she isn't currently paying in more than most, then your point means little to this conversation.

My mother has paid taxes for most of the past 40 years, as a HEALTHCARE PRACTITIONER. So yes, she made her contributions, thank you.
And apology accepted Arturus, no prob bud!


Past taxes paid have nothing to do with current spending, though. That's the thing. Is there some amount of taxes you have to pay and after that you don't have to pay any more?

Does Bill Gates get to claim tax credits to reduce his insurance premium costs because of how much he's paid in Federal taxes over the years?






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