RE: Obama Care

RE: Obama Care (Full Version)

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DesideriScuri -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 6:30:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Because he said he paid to aetna commercial insurance. Thats what you get for jumping in mouth first, Your ignorance pointed right back atcha http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4662981 I wasnt discussing the poor, or government mandated anything I was discussing his comments about paying for everyones healthcare. Id back off if I were you. Actually, Lucy, you need to reread what Arturas wrote. quote: My current Aetna commercial coverage pays for births [1]and is not ever subsidized by anyone but the other premium payers in our risk pool. It is a commercial plan and we are not subsidized by taxpayers. We pay our equal share of the costs and so we don't pay less so others can pay more. We pay our own way. His claim is that he pays his full share of premiums. He's not getting tax credits or anything like that to pay for his premiums. Technically, he's not paying his way exclusively (which is why people do buy insurance), but is paying his full insurance plan premium. His claim about GoddessManko's Mom and her 59¢ monthly premium, is that she isn't paying her full share of the premiums. What is the cost for Canadian Health Insurance, or whatever it's called? In the UK, NHS is, IIRC, 8.2% of your income over the non-taxable portion. Technically, he's not paying his way exclusively (which is why people do buy insurance), but is paying his full insurance plan premium. that was my entire point, I Didnt mention taxpayers, or everyone in the world or how little or how much he pays,I pointed out he is NOT paying for EVERYONES healthcare, which is what he claimed. and I didnt even comment on what he said about GMs mum contributions, GM managed that quite nicely. I said he was in a POOL ...no matter how big or small, a pool is based on the likelihood of risk. And, he acknowledged he was in a pool, right from the get go. GM's mom is in a risk pool, too. But, the difference, is that Arturas is paying his full premium, while GM's mom isn't paying her full premium. She's getting tax credits, which come from taxpayers, like Arturas.

Lucylastic -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 6:36:41 AM)
oh ffs I KNOW what he said, I responded to him about the pool please go back and actually read. Im not touching GMs issue...never have, and wont

DesideriScuri -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 8:02:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic oh ffs I KNOW what he said, I responded to him about the pool please go back and actually read. Im not touching GMs issue...never have, and wont Yeah, you told him he was part of a pool. Not surprisingly enough, he stated he was part of a pool when he said he had insurance. So, you played Ms. Obvious, and parroted something he had already stated. Brilliant!

Owner59 -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 8:17:00 AM)
[image]http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/561*425/ows_139527113522547.jpg[/image]

Lucylastic -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 8:19:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic oh ffs I KNOW what he said, I responded to him about the pool please go back and actually read. Im not touching GMs issue...never have, and wont Yeah, you told him he was part of a pool. Not surprisingly enough, he stated he was part of a pool when he said he had insurance. So, you played Ms. Obvious, and parroted something he had already stated. Brilliant! so mr redundant why did you state And, he acknowledged he was in a pool, right from the get go. ????

DesideriScuri -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 9:39:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic oh ffs I KNOW what he said, I responded to him about the pool please go back and actually read. Im not touching GMs issue...never have, and wont Yeah, you told him he was part of a pool. Not surprisingly enough, he stated he was part of a pool when he said he had insurance. So, you played Ms. Obvious, and parroted something he had already stated. Brilliant! so mr redundant why did you state And, he acknowledged he was in a pool, right from the get go. ???? Because you were attempting to discredit his opinion by showing he wasn't paying for his own care by pointing out he was in a risk pool that he had already stated he was in. No data on how much Canadian Health costs?

mnottertail -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 9:44:11 AM)
Oh for fucks sake, that information is freely available and is ubiquitous. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_(PPP)_per_capita

Lucylastic -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 9:54:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic oh ffs I KNOW what he said, I responded to him about the pool please go back and actually read. Im not touching GMs issue...never have, and wont Yeah, you told him he was part of a pool. Not surprisingly enough, he stated he was part of a pool when he said he had insurance. So, you played Ms. Obvious, and parroted something he had already stated. Brilliant! so mr redundant why did you state And, he acknowledged he was in a pool, right from the get go. ???? Because you were attempting to discredit his opinion by showing he wasn't paying for his own care by pointing out he was in a risk pool that he had already stated he was in. No data on how much Canadian Health costs? find it yourself mr redundant, I have given the costs out to you more than once I dont feel the need to do ANY of your research for you anymore

DesideriScuri -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 10:09:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic oh ffs I KNOW what he said, I responded to him about the pool please go back and actually read. Im not touching GMs issue...never have, and wont Yeah, you told him he was part of a pool. Not surprisingly enough, he stated he was part of a pool when he said he had insurance. So, you played Ms. Obvious, and parroted something he had already stated. Brilliant! so mr redundant why did you state And, he acknowledged he was in a pool, right from the get go. ???? Because you were attempting to discredit his opinion by showing he wasn't paying for his own care by pointing out he was in a risk pool that he had already stated he was in. No data on how much Canadian Health costs? find it yourself mr redundant, I have given the costs out to you more than once I dont feel the need to do ANY of your research for you anymore You have given me the tax rates for the Canadian Health System? Really? I haven't found any specific numbers on the tax rates (which is what I was looking for), and it seems to be further complicated by things like BC (or was it Quebec) also levying a set fee, which is not required by your National government.

mnottertail -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 10:49:28 AM)
Why do you want that when you are unable to provide tax rates for the US Health Care System? Really?

Musicmystery -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 10:50:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 [image]http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/561*425/ows_139527113522547.jpg[/image] OK, that's funny!

Lucylastic -> RE: Obama Care (3/20/2014 11:04:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 [image]http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/561*425/ows_139527113522547.jpg[/image] OK, that's funny! LMAO yeah, funy, and true:)

thishereboi -> RE: Obama Care (3/23/2014 6:05:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas By "Single Payer" the Obama Administration always meant a monopoly controlled by a Government bureaucracy like the I.R.S, the Social Security Administration and the Veterans Administration. I'd rather not have such an entity control 1/3 of our economy and I'd also rather be in charge of my own destiny and by that I mean able to purchase the coverage I want at the price I want to pay, in other words, a market based insurance and health provider source rather than a draft into the United States Healthcare Corps. shudder Thanks for attempting to answer the question. although I was really hoping to hear from some of the people who keep saying they want one. Surely if they want something, they have some idea of what that would be.

JeffBC -> RE: Obama Care (3/23/2014 8:48:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Thanks for attempting to answer the question. although I was really hoping to hear from some of the people who keep saying they want one. Surely if they want something, they have some idea of what that would be. I can't find your original question but I'm reverse-engineering it to be "So what exactly does SP look like?" The short answer is it looks a lot like what I have in Canada and exactly what Arturas describes sans all the hand-waving hyperbole. Happily I moved to Canada and fixed that problem for myself. The reasons I want that are almost too many to list but you might read Time Magazine's "The Bitter Pill" for a start. What "free market" has brought us is predatory pricing which feeds on the poor, sick. The "aged" in the US are largely protected from this because the medicare has the clout to fight back although drug costs are still THROUGH THE ROOF in the US relative to any sane measure. Put differently, when you're sick the hospital has you by the short hairs and you have pretty much zero bargaining power. That's why you pay $7 for a gauze pad in a room which already cost you $1300. It's why a niacin tablet costs $14 and a tylenol up to $21. Hospital charge sheets make the lurid tales of pentagon prices look like child's play. I like it that in Canada the free market results I just listed are not allowed and the single payer has enough customers to negotiate such ridiculousness away.

Musicmystery -> RE: Obama Care (3/23/2014 9:00:25 AM)
Jeff, just a technical point -- what you're describing here is not drug pricing, but high hospital costs. The rationale is similar to why beer costs more in a bar, but with higher sterility and care and liability concerns added in. And it goes from doctor to pharmacy tech to pharmacist to nurse to patient. Not defending it, understand--just saying these particular costs don't come from drug companies, but from the hospitals. That said, your point still stands.

Phydeaux -> RE: Obama Care (3/23/2014 10:35:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Thanks for attempting to answer the question. although I was really hoping to hear from some of the people who keep saying they want one. Surely if they want something, they have some idea of what that would be. I can't find your original question but I'm reverse-engineering it to be "So what exactly does SP look like?" The short answer is it looks a lot like what I have in Canada and exactly what Arturas describes sans all the hand-waving hyperbole. Happily I moved to Canada and fixed that problem for myself. The reasons I want that are almost too many to list but you might read Time Magazine's "The Bitter Pill" for a start. What "free market" has brought us is predatory pricing which feeds on the poor, sick. The "aged" in the US are largely protected from this because the medicare has the clout to fight back although drug costs are still THROUGH THE ROOF in the US relative to any sane measure. Put differently, when you're sick the hospital has you by the short hairs and you have pretty much zero bargaining power. That's why you pay $7 for a gauze pad in a room which already cost you $1300. It's why a niacin tablet costs $14 and a tylenol up to $21. Hospital charge sheets make the lurid tales of pentagon prices look like child's play. I like it that in Canada the free market results I just listed are not allowed and the single payer has enough customers to negotiate such ridiculousness away. No, the free market has essentially zero to do with it. Notice that we had a free market from 1850 to 1950 and didn't have such problems. The government requiring hospitals to treat indigents patients but not reimbursing under Emtala is the reason you have $7 gauze packages.

Musicmystery -> RE: Obama Care (3/23/2014 11:07:34 AM)
Pure speculation, and ridiculous. Health care costs -- not simply hospital costs -- have spiraled upward since your 1950 cut off, and for a number of reasons, from more expensive treatments to malpractice premiums in a litigious society.

mnottertail -> RE: Obama Care (3/24/2014 7:15:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Notice that we had a free market from 1850 to 1950 and didn't have such problems. That now stands as the stupidest thing ever posted on the internet. We had no such thing, not ever. We had an American Protectionist Economy. That is why we did so well. Perhaps Morrill, Taft, Walker, Dingley, Aldrich, et al googled with the word tariff might clue you into something you have actually not one iota of knowledge about as you have so certainly demonstrated. http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Americas-Market-Hartwell-Business/dp/0807848115/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1395670220&sr=8-3&keywords=alfred+eckes Here is a pretty good read, and for numerate folks, a pretty good laugh. He was St. Wrinklemeat's trade rep, so I shouldn't be getting any guff from the nutsackers on the source. I am a Republican, anyone else these days calling themselves that are nutsackers and rinos.

JeffBC -> RE: Obama Care (3/24/2014 7:28:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Notice that we had a free market from 1850 to 1950 and didn't have such problems. The government requiring hospitals to treat indigents patients but not reimbursing under Emtala is the reason you have $7 gauze packages. Yes, so the very capable PR machines of this INSANELY profitable non-profits would have us believe. Did you read the time magazine article Phydeaux? Did you find it credible? It gave VERY detailed numbers along with photographs of actual bills/charges/etc. If you believe that article then the hospitals are charging WAY, WAY more than they need to in order to cover all costs including free care, litigation, insurance, and very well compensated executive teams.

thishereboi -> RE: Obama Care (3/24/2014 7:40:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Thanks for attempting to answer the question. although I was really hoping to hear from some of the people who keep saying they want one. Surely if they want something, they have some idea of what that would be. I can't find your original question but I'm reverse-engineering it to be "So what exactly does SP look like?" The short answer is it looks a lot like what I have in Canada and exactly what Arturas describes sans all the hand-waving hyperbole. Happily I moved to Canada and fixed that problem for myself. The reasons I want that are almost too many to list but you might read Time Magazine's "The Bitter Pill" for a start. What "free market" has brought us is predatory pricing which feeds on the poor, sick. The "aged" in the US are largely protected from this because the medicare has the clout to fight back although drug costs are still THROUGH THE ROOF in the US relative to any sane measure. Put differently, when you're sick the hospital has you by the short hairs and you have pretty much zero bargaining power. That's why you pay $7 for a gauze pad in a room which already cost you $1300. It's why a niacin tablet costs $14 and a tylenol up to $21. Hospital charge sheets make the lurid tales of pentagon prices look like child's play. I like it that in Canada the free market results I just listed are not allowed and the single payer has enough customers to negotiate such ridiculousness away. I don't know anything about the Canadian system so I can't comment on that. Here most hospital costs are based on MS-DRGs which set the price based on the diagnosis code. They don't tally up everything you used and charge you item by item. this was the original question quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Single Payer. When you say single payer are you referring to a system like the VA or CMS or are you talking about something totally different?

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