RE: Did I just create a mess?

RE: Did I just create a mess? (Full Version)

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LadyPact -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 8:20:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady I do think I can offer him guidance without further event happening though. He has no clue how to use a computer (LP he makes you look like a programmer. Really), so sites would be good. He has no idea what site I'm on anyway. Guess I've mellowed inmy old age. The next time we talk. I will tell him it can't happen again. But I see no reao exacerbate things. Oh, goodness. That's bad. LOL. I do agree with you that you should tell the guy that this can't happen again. That should be enough. If you attempt to take the subject to the girlfriend, I don't think that's going to go well. Some of the kinky people would see it as the guy (might be) hitting on you. To a vanilla person who may not be as aware of foot or shoe fetishist? Might be a whole different ballgame.

NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 11:20:19 AM)
I think letting him sniff your shoes is in the grey area between cheating and not. Just sniffing the shoes I don't think is cheating, really. but it's getting him all excited and probably wanting your feet too. I think what I would tell him is something like this: No, you are absolutely not a freak for having a foot & shoe fetish, you are not alone by any means. But I do think that allowing you to sniff my shoes was a big mistake on my part, so I can't allow you to do it again. If you continue to ask, then I will have to tell your girlfriend. Then I wouldn't tell his girlfriend unless he bugs you about it again. That's what I'd do anyway. I don't think you meant to do anything wrong but I can see where, if it continued to happen, he will want more and more. NBMG

Rawni -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 12:15:55 PM)
Okay... I was being my kind of nice before, but LL... I have to call this one... total bull shit. Some guy, not your friend, comes from an anal background that has him feeling like a freak because of a foot fetish or kinky thoughts and you excuse his poor behavior because his background is religious and there's no freedom there and the poor guy has relationship and drinking problems and well... poor guy couldn't help himself???? I don't see it happening. A guy like that on the forum and you would be eating him alive in half a page of set this one right. I know you will tolerate things that I won't. You will stand by someone that I think is a wayward mess and this thread proves it. How dare even a friend and especially a friend, allow himself to get so drunk or stupid that he would act out like that and not apologize and think it was okay. You were not drinking. So shocked, surprised, etc... okay... we all respond differently, but clearly you excuse his behavior, therefore make allowances for it... explaining it as if the poor guy... just couldn't help himself. Poor pitiful, lost soul, I can save with information that he isn't a freak. He is a fucking freak because he decided drunk or not to push his will upon you and you let him and now excuse him because the poor dear is in a rotten relationship with a nasty drunk and well he drinks too and well his background is so anal he just needs an understanding friend! Bull shit. We often set the terms on how people treat us and if what he did is okay with you... cool... your problem not mine, but two drunks and a fetish, lacks in communication because of background or anything else doesn't fucking excuse that man's behavior and if you excuse it, you may deserve the drama that could come next because there are no boundaries here. You just let him know that it is okay to do that with you because you are a safe friend and well... he has his reasons, the poor over fifty year old that doesn't get social boundaries because the poor dear has his reasons. So does every fucking guy that shows his cock to a stranger wanting to get a bit of his fetish on, who is attached to some woman... that doesn't understand him. As long as women excuse it and allow it... they will continue to excuse it and do it. You are no longer in the shocking moment here. If it is okay with you... fine... but that would not be a friend of mine had he done that to me. Drinking is no excuse, fighting with another drunk is no excuse... there is no excuse and I don't often see you excusing other men basically doing the same thing around here. Go save the world of lost anal men from backgrounds that repressed them, but know that the moment you excuse his behavior, you become part of a bigger problem.

njlauren -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 2:31:28 PM)
LL- I agree with others, while sniffing a shoe is not sex per se, what he did was asinine, he violated your boundaries, and he did something without your permission, it has nothing to do with sex. If you have a beautiful model of a sailing ship, and he touched it without permission, you might be upset. If you had a girl friend over, and you found her in your closet trying on shoes or clothing, you would be justifiably upset. The biggest transgression here was he did this without asking you, your permission. You need to make clear to him that what he did was wrong, not because of the fetish, but because of violating your boundaries. The other thing is, you are putting yourself in the middle, and that is going to lead you to a world of hurt. I realize both sides feel comfortable with you, to vent to you, but that still is not good for you, because it puts you on the spot. If you agree with one of them, it will embolden them to go back to the other person and say "see, I was right", and that person will get pissed at you. It is a no win situation, and the fact that she is upset that he goes to see you when he is in town says that despite being your friend, she sees that as somehow you siding with him, whther it is fear you will have sex with him or whether she feels he will use the time with you to 'turn you' to his side.... To be honest, the biggest boundary here has nothing to do with your shoe, what the real issue is when they use you as a sounding board, you need to tell the person "look, I love you as a friend, I love X (the other person) as a friend, and I can't get in the middle of this, because I love you both too much and don't want to hurt either of you, I cannot be impartial and I don't want to ruin our friendships". Believe me, being a de facto therapist in the middle of two people is ugly, been there, done that, and it usually doesn't work:). You probably are right about communication, but you aren't the one that can do it. If they vent on you, you can listen, but then if they want an opinion, tell him/her they need to be talking to the other person, not you. I would seriously suggest a couple's therapist to them, because they need someone neutral. It is okay for you to be there to listen to them, let you vent, but I would stay away from giving them feedback when they say "what do you think?", other than "I think you need to talk to X about it". For your friend, it is good in one way you opened up about yourself, but be careful, if he ever divulged that to his wife, it might become a mess, she might blame you for him having this 'weirdness', might decide since you are into kink therefore you won't care if you sleep with her husband, all kinds of things...it won't be rational, but if she didn't know about you and finds out, it could be trouble. I think it is okay to tell him he isn't a freak, that you understand what fetishes are, but after that, I wouldn't talk to him about it.....another suggestion would be if he is hung up on it, tell him to find a sexual counselor to work with, to at the very least lose the guilt:). By getting them to get help you are a much better friend, and it will protect you, because situations like this suck for those in the middle, been there, and it wasn't pleasant.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 3:00:57 PM)
Rawni, seriously, cut her some slack... Yeah she makes excuses, the guy is her FRIEND, we try to see the best in friends, it's natural... It doesn't make her a mug or a bad person or an enabler, it makes her human. It happened yesterday, she's confused, she was violated, in her own home, she didn't react like super domme (whoever or whatever that is) she comes here for support and people jump all over her. I mean REALLY? To be completely honest, if it would happen to me, I would be speechless too, I wouldn't know what to do, great if you would react different and perfect (at least in theory), if only the world would be such a perfect place and we'd have a bit less victim blaming...

Rawni -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 3:14:41 PM)
I am not blaming a victim. She doesn't feel victimized. She stands up for the guy... while attacking others that come here and do something very similar. Past the moment... she wanted to help a kinky friend not feel like a freak. He's a mess and I have had friends that were a mess, but I didn't defend poor behavior that I would climb on someone else for, just because they had a reason. If men are given excuses because they are a friend, where do we stop the cycle of dysfunction? Is it all okay because they couldn't pull themselves together? I will not defend a man, friend or not that sexually acts out for whatever reason, against another human being, man, woman or child. It is what it is. Ugly. So it was only a shoe and only her... because he had good cause. I blame him for that. Where she is going wrong is to expect that her friend gets special treatment when other men doing something like that get a head bashing around here.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 3:32:22 PM)
I don't think she expects that, seriously, if a friend, especially somebody really close to me, would overstep a line (like the guy did) I would also be really really confused and try to find reasons for it, most people don't ditch friends easily, which is actually a good thing. She didn't ask for any of this, she's trying to deal with it as best as she knows, there is a difference between a stranger and a friend. Look, I'm currently in a situation where somebody we let live with us trashed our house, flooded the place, caused massive damage, yes, we had warning signs before, we cut him slack (mostly because we liked his little dog and didn't want the dog to sleep rough), yeah, could have avoided that by giving him the marching papers long ago but cut him some slack as the dog needs medical attention and we don't exactly need the space. I'm still in some sort of shock, especially since I found out he badmouthed us all over the place (nice repayment for 7 months of rent free living and being cared for, not a huge room but a pretty comfy place). Shit happens, you deal with it as best as you can, not always perfectly. Honestly, rather somebody who sees the good in people or tries to see that, than somebody who thinks everybody is evil, I had people help me through tough times, I consider helping others as paying back a debt I owe to the universe, or what goes around comes around. Yeah got my fingers burned a few times, but rather that than being without feelings...

Rawni -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 3:40:43 PM)
I have and continue to help people. I do not help them continue a pattern where they are going to need continued patience or experience life problems. I worked for far less than I could have, trying to help people help themselves. That goes a long way with me because you aren't helping them if they continue the experiences or patterns they have that bring the drama on. Truth can be brutal... so can life and we don't do anyone any favors when we enable poor behavior and call it something else or excuse it. So we all help people differently and I bet most of us have a bad story or two or twenty in helping them. So, I am a hard nosed bitch maybe... but I don't do drama anymore. Had enough of it and because my friend is messing up his life doesn't mean that I am a bad friend because I refuse to deny what the truth of the matter is. Before I addressed his kink and relationship issues, I'd be handing him an AA book or something. I told her how to protect herself... offer him some info... and don't take part until the girlfriend who is supposed to be an even worse drinker knows whats going on so she doesn't have to deal with her. I am not saying she cannot be his friend... but to be his friend without boundaries and conditions... means... you may be a continued victim. I don't volunteer for that any more. Take a look at Al-anon.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 3:42:22 PM)
It happened yesterday, she's still digesting is, is still confused, it's being HUMAN

Rawni -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 3:52:53 PM)
Cool... maybe she will remember that the next attached man here... showing his ass. [:D] I'm sorry if it is irritating... but I don't hold my friends to a different standard. I don't consider that being a friend. My friends that have treated me any way close to that... have shown they weren't really my friend to do that to me. Therefore... friendless and happy. [:D] I am not typing with an evil face on... digging my fingernails into the keys, angry and evil. I call it like I see it and believe me... if a friend is in need, I am there, but I still call it as I see it and my friends do the same thing to me. They even rub it in and remind me forever and a day. [:D]

LafayetteLady -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 4:40:09 PM)
There is nothing to be gained by anyone telling her about the incident. You are right, asking to kiss my feet is making a pass. However, I think that my time bartending ina somewhat seedy gogo bar has me react differently at times. That job had me receive all kinds of odd passes and questions. For most, a firm "no" with the explanation about the inappropriateness of the request is typically the end of the discussion. Certainly, there have been drunken people who didn't take that initial no, but I don't start with an overly escalated response. My experience is that such things make a situation worse. So he received a firm no, was told he was crossing a line and that was it. Had he actually tried to kiss my feet, that would have had a totally different reaction.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 4:43:12 PM)
No I didn't sit back and watch. He poured the beer in my shoe when I turned my head. I don't know a lot of foot fetishists and at first did chalk this up to him being drunk. I've seen people do some mighty strange things when drunk, and not always in a bar. Obviously your experience is different.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 4:52:46 PM)
Thank you Chatte for clearly seeing this for what it was without adding your own personal spin on it (or your and mine spin is just the same). I talked at length with him about telling her, just like I explained that searching out others for his fetish can be viewed as cheating. I say can because there are such varying views regarding what constitutes that. Being a "moderator" between them is not a position I sought out. But it seems to happen often, likely because of my background. People tend to talk to me and confide in me and even when I'm not friends with both people, know I look at things from both sides and am unbiased. Chatte, I imagine you have come upon that type of thing in life as well. I think most open minded, honest and level headed people do.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 4:59:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady No I didn't sit back and watch. He poured the beer in my shoe when I turned my head. I don't know a lot of foot fetishists and at first did chalk this up to him being drunk. I've seen people do some mighty strange things when drunk, and not always in a bar. Obviously your experience is different. LL, I really didn't want to weigh in here, because all the right people chimed in, but I'm getting pretty sick of the wrong ones chiming in. Everyone has been in an awkward situation that has taken them back... though they seem to being suffering from amnesia at the moment. I'm going to get to the point and wander off to do more stupid Tyrant shit. I think the situation was shocking enough that it morphed into something that you normally would've checked in a hurry, but the familiarity disarmed you. I think introducing him to the lifestyle, even if it is just tiny doses or hints, is the best thing anyone could do for anyone that has a fetish or inclination. I'd stress to him the importance of open communication in the lifestyle, and satisfy yourself that you just may have ended decades of confusion for him. Jus sayin Exiled

LafayetteLady -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 5:04:48 PM)
Becoming, You are reading something wrong as she is no less a friend than him. But there have been events that have lessened my respect for her, in that you are right. It is complicated and not relevant to this situation which is why id didn't mention it. My respect for her has decreased for a multitude of reasons, sadly. Does that somehow increase my loyalty to him more? Maybe. But not because of him or anything he said or did. Honestly? While I'm sure there will be many more opinions that are very biased on this statement, the truth is her actions have ultimately increased my loyalty to those around her and decreased it towards her. Yes, there are other people in her life (and mine) who have confided in me about things she has done. Most of which I already knew about. But those things aren't part of this discussion and I'm only saying it because you mentioned something that did cause me to evaluate that situation some. Perhaps naively, but I'm still hoping to chalk this up to him having to much to drink. In other words, I'm hoping he doesn't remember his behavior. Yes, kind of cowardly on my part, but at the same time, I'm better prepared to deal with it if it occurs again. I just would rather not have to.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 5:16:44 PM)
DarkSteven, I have never understood the concept of when you are friends with a couple, always having to interact with that couple only when together, or only the one of the same gender. While I agree with your statment about misinterpetation, such things stem out of insecurity for the person misinterpeting. I've seen that many times in situations I wasn't even involved in directly. You're correct that I'm questioning the whole thing. Avoiding any confrontation with either is my goal. That's why I'm hoping he just was drunk and forgets. That makes my life simpler. While not altogether relevant, I have spoken to both in the past about couples counseling. Apparently, they did try it some time ago (honestly not clear on how long ago). It did not go well. I spent some time last night talking to him about trying that again. The thing is, the whole incident had no sexual overtones or undertones at all to me. Perhaps that is why I didn't react the way so many people hear have or even with him. I know it sounds like I have some really "unconvententional" friends, but I have seen so much stranger behavior from people who are drunk. I'm not excusing his actions by saying that, but that is why I didn't think it was that big of a deal.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 5:21:08 PM)
Thank you LC! This whole "being alone with an attached man" thing has always irked me. My best friend, who is male agrees with me and I seriously asked him if letting the guy stop by for a drink was odd. I can't look back or even quote posting with my phones, so I do miss things. He didn't drive drunk, he did walk here and walk home.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 5:25:30 PM)
Eve, As odd as it is in this day and age, no this guy has no clue how to use a computer. He can't barely even text. Do I believe he never sniffed he shoes or told her ? Yes, because I know them both and what I have repeatedly told both is they need to learn how to communicate. It was his face when he asked me about his being a freak. I made a living being able to jduge the truth of situations and I doubt I read this one wrong. But thanks to some people here, I am prepared to deal with this should it happen again.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 5:29:50 PM)
KA, I think I have already addressed most of what you posted, however, I don't consider my shoes an "intimate" article. Perhaps that is why my view is so different than some others. Other may not quantify a difference, but I do. Sniffing the crotch of my panties would have been a big problem. My shoes? Not intimate to me.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Did I just create a mess? (3/15/2014 5:35:19 PM)
NBMG, Yours is the best way to tell him, thank you! Although I won't tell her regardless. If he couldn't stop crossing the line, I just would deal with it by not allowing him in my house anymore. But you highlighted my point about how everyone defines cheating differently. Personally, I would have a problem with my partner doing this with someone else. But I would also have a problem that my partner felt they couldn't confide in me their feelings about wanting to.

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