RE: Justified use of deadly force

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Justified use of deadly force

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Justified use of deadly force

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

[Poll]

Justified use of deadly force

Prevent a rape

16% (27)

Prevent bodily injury to self or family member

17% (28)

Protect home from intruders

11% (18)

Protect private property.

3% (6)

Protect self from armed attack

18% (30)

Protect self from attack

14% (23)

Finding an intruder in your home

8% (14)

Stop a trespasser

2% (4)

Stop someone attempting to break into your home.

5% (9)

Total Votes : 159

(last vote on : 3/25/2014 8:09:38 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 3:28:47 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

Dwarf, did I read your response correctly, deadly force is okay but not with a gun?

If that is not the case, I do apologize.

As for other countries, lets see gang rapes in India, one person with a blunt object stopping a gang?
And I am quite sure the Africans massacred were not by the deadly use of a toothpick.

You are implying that the US is the only country where guns are used to kill people and those guns are in hands other than the police.

People claim that the US leads the world in gun related deaths, which is not the truth, or even close to the truth.

Gun related deaths in the US is 10.3 per 100,000 people.

In a rating of gun related crime rates, the US is 28th. Source

So, claiming that the US leads the world in gun related crimes and deaths, is a lie, in every sense of the word. There are countries where private gun ownership is illegal, and they rank higher than the US in gun related deaths.

Facts that anti gun people either refuse to accept or just blatantly ignore because it does not support their argument.

It also seems to be ignored that responsible gun owners agree that the laws need to be tightened, but disagree on restriction as to type or banning guns outright.

What makes the US such a target, the fact we do have legalized private ownership of guns with little restrictions.

And I would venture a guess that if the only thing you had to stop the rape of a child, murder of a child, or murder of anyone was a gun, you would use that gun, and I doubt you would shoot to wound.

I really hate to tell you this, but it is far easier to hit center mass of a person than an arm or leg, and if you do hit an arm or leg, you cannot be sure of stopping him.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 21

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 3:43:16 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Personally, I find the requirement that an armed person must retreat in the presence of crime to be repugnant.

So you are a 90 lb woman, armed with a gun, watching a 200 lb man rape someone else. You are morally obligated to retreat instead of intervening?

And since when were you appointed judge, jury and executioner of justice??

Discretion is the better part of valour.

Phone the police on your cell phone.
Let them deal with the incident. It's not your problem.
[ETA: There's far too many gun-toting self-appointed asshats doing this shit already]

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
Personally, I find the notion that an armed person should be allowed to execute anyone for any crime to be repugnant.

I quite concur with that idea.

You guys make it sound like there are nothing but armed vigilantes running around the country.

FYI, as a witness to a crime in progress and does nothing more than call the police is civilly liable. Under the law in most states, in a situation as that where you are not the victim or intended victim, deadly force is the last resort.

The problem is that blowing the horn, yelling and just about anything else you do is not going to stop the criminal, until you use some kind of force.

I have asked this question before, and I will ask it again.

In an economic environment where city, county and state tax revenues are down, where are these jurisdictions supposed to get the money to hire more law enforcement personnel?

Just how many law enforcement personnel do you want? You want a cop on every corner?

How about saturating the cities with cctv cameras? Even the London metropolitan police admit that for every 1000 cameras, only one crime is solved or prevented.

And of course there is the one "news" anchor in the US that says we need to take preventative measures for violent crimes. How the fuck are we to predict where a crime is going to happen and who is going to commit it?

There is an old saying in this part of the US, "I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by six."

And I have news for you people that say deadly force is never justified, if someone threatens a member of my family, I am going to use whatever means at my disposal to make sure they never make that mistake again, even if it is stabbing them with a pen knife until they basically bleed to death from paper cuts.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 22

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 3:52:20 PM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Personally, I find the requirement that an armed person must retreat in the presence of crime to be repugnant.

So you are a 90 lb woman, armed with a gun, watching a 200 lb man rape someone else. You are morally obligated to retreat instead of intervening?

And since when were you appointed judge, jury and executioner of justice??

^^

^^

Who appointed you Proclaimer Of What Is Right?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 23

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 3:54:38 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Dwarf, did I read your response correctly, deadly force is okay but not with a gun?

If that is not the case, I do apologize.

Sometimes, deadly force is the only way to stop a crime in progress - but extremely rarely.
In general, deadly force is just not necessary nor justified IMHO.
Even worse when perpetrated by gun because, quite often the case, it's usually a shoot-first-ask-questions-later type of scenario that happens all too often.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
As for other countries, lets see gang rapes in India, one person with a blunt object stopping a gang?
And I am quite sure the Africans massacred were not by the deadly use of a toothpick.

You are implying that the US is the only country where guns are used to kill people and those guns are in hands other than the police.

That's pretty much the upshot of it, yes.
Nowhere else in the world are there soo many deaths caused by civilians using firearms.
Even when you compare several war zones, the US gun deaths by capita tops them all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
People claim that the US leads the world in gun related deaths, which is not the truth, or even close to the truth.

There has been several threads on this Jeff - complete with graphs and stats that show it to be the truth.
Just one example: You are 694x more likely to die from a firearm in the US than you are in the UK.
We have very strict gun laws and guns aren't allowed to be openly carried in public, anywhere, and never ever loaded. The US doesn't have such restrictive laws and the gun deaths per capita stats clearly show that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Gun related deaths in the US is 10.3 per 100,000 people.

In a rating of gun related crime rates, the US is 28th. Source

So, claiming that the US leads the world in gun related crimes and deaths, is a lie, in every sense of the word. There are countries where private gun ownership is illegal, and they rank higher than the US in gun related deaths.

Facts that anti gun people either refuse to accept or just blatantly ignore because it does not support their argument.

And the UK figure is around 0.07 per capita - quite a significant difference (147.14x).
At 60% homicides by gun, the US is well up there. (taken from your quoted source)
Even higher than the likes of Nicaragua, Vietnam, Sth Africa, even Mexico FFS!

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
It also seems to be ignored that responsible gun owners agree that the laws need to be tightened, but disagree on restriction as to type or banning guns outright.

What makes the US such a target, the fact we do have legalized private ownership of guns with little restrictions.

And there is where the US trips itself up.
The majority of gundiots (not all by any stretch, but a lot) still live with the mentality like the Wild West days; just slightly more civilized.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
And I would venture a guess that if the only thing you had to stop the rape of a child, murder of a child, or murder of anyone was a gun, you would use that gun, and I doubt you would shoot to wound.

I really hate to tell you this, but it is far easier to hit center mass of a person than an arm or leg, and if you do hit an arm or leg, you cannot be sure of stopping him.

I'm sure the majority of people could find something other than a gun to stop such a crime.
Again, only gun people immediately think of a gun as the weapon of choice.
Others would not automatically think of a gun. There's the difference.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 24

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 4:01:03 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Personally, I find the requirement that an armed person must retreat in the presence of crime to be repugnant.

So you are a 90 lb woman, armed with a gun, watching a 200 lb man rape someone else. You are morally obligated to retreat instead of intervening?

And since when were you appointed judge, jury and executioner of justice??

^^ ^^

Who appointed you Proclaimer Of What Is Right?

Even in the US you have law enforcement, judges, juries and courts of justice.
Your constitution doesn't say that every citizen is above the law and morally obligated to behave in such a manner.

(in reply to Yachtie)

Post #: 25

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 4:10:49 PM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Personally, I find the requirement that an armed person must retreat in the presence of crime to be repugnant.

So you are a 90 lb woman, armed with a gun, watching a 200 lb man rape someone else. You are morally obligated to retreat instead of intervening?

And since when were you appointed judge, jury and executioner of justice??

^^ ^^

Who appointed you Proclaimer Of What Is Right?

Even in the US you have law enforcement, judges, juries and courts of justice.
Your constitution doesn't say that every citizen is above the law and morally obligated to behave in such a manner.

I'm so glad you love the law so much. May it protect you with its warm embrace in all instances. May it keep you safe. If, by chance which god forbid should ever happen, do not ever ask me for help in such a ~situation as is being considered here. For if you did I'd instead order a pizza and wait for the law.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 26

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 4:18:15 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
FYI, as a witness to a crime in progress and does nothing more than call the police is civilly liable. Under the law in most states, in a situation as that where you are not the victim or intended victim, deadly force is the last resort.

Not here you aren't liable and I don't think it's the case anywhere in the EU.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
The problem is that blowing the horn, yelling and just about anything else you do is not going to stop the criminal, until you use some kind of force.

Quite. But deadly force?? Nope. Never.
It would have to be something quite extraordinary to even think of deadly force.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
I have asked this question before, and I will ask it again.

In an economic environment where city, county and state tax revenues are down, where are these jurisdictions supposed to get the money to hire more law enforcement personnel?

Just how many law enforcement personnel do you want? You want a cop on every corner?

It's not much different than most 1st-world countries.
The only difference is, most countries don't need to be on the lookout for shooters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
How about saturating the cities with cctv cameras? Even the London metropolitan police admit that for every 1000 cameras, only one crime is solved or prevented.

That's quite different to what this source says -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/10172298/One-surveillance-camera-for-every-11-people-in-Britain-says-CCTV-survey.html
Roughly 1 CCTV camera for every 14 people.
"He added: “Effective CCTV schemes are an invaluable source of crime detection and evidence for the police. For example, in 2009 95 per cent of Scotland Yard murder cases used CCTV footage as evidence."
Sure as fuck beats a bobby on foot patrol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
And of course there is the one "news" anchor in the US that says we need to take preventative measures for violent crimes. How the fuck are we to predict where a crime is going to happen and who is going to commit it?

Quite simple... in 99.999999% of cases, you just don't know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
And I have news for you people that say deadly force is never justified, if someone threatens a member of my family, I am going to use whatever means at my disposal to make sure they never make that mistake again, even if it is stabbing them with a pen knife until they basically bleed to death from paper cuts.

Yep. I fully agree.
But never ever deadly force - at least not with intent.
Hence a gun is a bad choice of weapon because it is often deadly even when not intended to be.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 27

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 4:20:52 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

FR
First if you don't approve of using force in any situation you have voted never.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 28

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 4:24:07 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
I'm so glad you love the law so much. May it protect you with its warm embrace in all instances. May it keep you safe. If, by chance which god forbid should ever happen, do not ever ask me for help in such a ~situation as is being considered here. For if you did I'd instead order a pizza and wait for the law.

And so you should!

There's no fuckin' way would I want some rootin'tootin'gungho risking my life with their shooting.

Oh, and btw, while you're on the phone to the pizza parlour, order some for the police 'cuz they'd usually be here before you'd finished dialling the number.
Ahhh. Fuckit. I fergot, the US police are too slow - unlike here

ETA: Just for clarity/comparison as anything involving firearms or very serious life-threatening incidents are attended by ARV's, not your ordinary policeman -
All officers operationally deployed are routinely armed with the 9 mm Glock 17 self-loading pistol, and in some cases the X26 Taser. Despite carrying firearms, officers still carry the standard issue personal protective equipment (PPE) such as the; ASP baton, Hiatt Speedcuffs and CS/PAVA Incapacitant spray. They also have access to 9 mm Heckler & Koch MP5 semi-automatic carbine, and L104A1 Baton gun. All ARV officers are trained to administer Ballistic First Aid and are Emergency Life Saver trained. In many instances, ARV crews can arrive at the scene of shooting before paramedics or ambulances, and are frequently required to provide life saving techniques on shooting victims.
-And-
The average response time of an ARV anywhere in London is just 4 minutes
We also have our own ARV unit right here where I live.

I doubt that your average Domino's would have answered your call in that time let alone taken your order.

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 3/17/2014 4:43:10 PM >

(in reply to Yachtie)

Post #: 29

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 4:25:51 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
First if you don't approve of using force in any situation you have voted never.

And where, exactly, is that option on the Poll??

ETA: Incidentally, if you hadn't noticed, the poll is about deadly force, not just force.

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 3/17/2014 4:35:06 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 30

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 4:56:28 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Engaging with gundiots and expecting intellectually honest discourse is a fool's errand.

And that comment is any better?

To me the poll actually looks poorly constructed because there is too much crossover between the choices. One situation could all too easily include most, if not all the options. I think the options would have been better constructed with a brief hypothetical situation and "Is lethal force justified" at the end.

Yes, but that doesn't allow cheap digs at the mad fools who think gun control serves any purpose besides reducing the population to serfs and slaves, does it?

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 3/17/2014 4:57:11 PM >

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to FelineRanger)

Post #: 31

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 5:01:21 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
First if you don't approve of using force in any situation you have voted never.

And where, exactly, is that option on the Poll??

ETA: Incidentally, if you hadn't noticed, the poll is about deadly force, not just force.

If for example each situation listed has 25% approval then any reasonable person
Would see that a clear majority opposed the use of deadly force in any situation.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 32

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 6:14:12 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

Funny thing, the US is not the country leading the world in gun related deaths, yet to hear people from outside the US talk, it is.

In actuality, it is not even in the top ten.

So, hypothetically, a 5'4" inch 105 pound woman threatened by a male, 6' even, around 231 pounds would not be justified in pulling a gun and shooting him outright?

Just what do you advise her to do?

And once more, to get a license for concealed carry in any state, you have to go through a training program, and in that program you are taught to shoot center mass or the attackers torso.

Now considering that firing center mass means aiming for the center of the chest, just what is the chance of it not being deadly? Maybe 50/50, if they miss the heart, they are going to get a lung, and if they hit the heart, attacker dead.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 33

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 6:26:01 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Just because the question doesn't ask what you want doesn't make it flawed.
Other people thoughts that are relevant and interesting even if they don't meet your standard of excellence.

Personally, I find the requirement that an armed person must retreat in the presence of crime to be repugnant.

So you are a 90 lb woman, armed with a gun, watching a 200 lb man rape someone else. You are morally obligated to retreat instead of intervening?

Thank GOD we ended that stupidity.

How about FIRST the 90 lb woman get in a firing stance then yell stop or I will shoot... or are you going to blast away while he is on the woman... better hope the round doesn't kill them both.

There are alternatives always....and not trying them can, as we have seen in another thread, turn a good deed into a tragedy.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Phydeaux)

Post #: 34

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 6:27:42 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Funny thing, the US is not the country leading the world in gun related deaths, yet to hear people from outside the US talk, it is.

In actuality, it is not even in the top ten.

So, hypothetically, a 5'4" inch 105 pound woman threatened by a male, 6' even, around 231 pounds would not be justified in pulling a gun and shooting him outright?

Just what do you advise her to do?

And once more, to get a license for concealed carry in any state, you have to go through a training program, and in that program you are taught to shoot center mass or the attackers torso.

Now considering that firing center mass means aiming for the center of the chest, just what is the chance of it not being deadly? Maybe 50/50, if they miss the heart, they are going to get a lung, and if they hit the heart, attacker dead.

A few years back some thugs in the Caribbean tried to hold up a reunion of D-day veterans.
One put him in a headlock. Thugs neck was broken. The authorities declared it to self inflicted
while trying to get loose.
My point is that once force is applied death is in the wings.
When I was an MP they told us that when in police mode we were only to fire our .45s to disable.
And that the only dependable disabling shot was to the chest.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 35

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 6:33:13 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Just because the question doesn't ask what you want doesn't make it flawed.
Other people thoughts that are relevant and interesting even if they don't meet your standard of excellence.

Personally, I find the requirement that an armed person must retreat in the presence of crime to be repugnant.

So you are a 90 lb woman, armed with a gun, watching a 200 lb man rape someone else. You are morally obligated to retreat instead of intervening?

Thank GOD we ended that stupidity.

How about FIRST the 90 lb woman get in a firing stance then yell stop or I will shoot... or are you going to blast away while he is on the woman... better hope the round doesn't kill them both.

There are alternatives always....and not trying them can, as we have seen in another thread, turn a good deed into a tragedy.

Butch

There seems to be this misconception among the anti gun people that aren't smart enough
to use any tactic other than blindly blasting away.
I have every option a anti gunner has plus several.
I have avoided violence simply by placing my hand on my firearm when he insisted on using
attempts to reason with him as a cover to work in on me.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 36

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 6:45:19 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

I'll go one step further and call it a stupid question.

(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 37

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 6:46:35 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

Alright, I know Bama has law enforcement experience in the military, and I believe their are other former LEOs using the boards. And I was a deputy sheriff for about four years.

How many people have dealt with the victim of a rape, such as being the first officer on the scene?

How many former LEOs have been the first on the scene of a home invasion call?

I can say yes to both. While there were no dead victims. In the home invasion, the father ended up committing suicide for the reason "he did not do anything to protect his family."

The rape victim did a bit better, a number of years in therapy, overwhelming fear of strange men, and a very fun social life, work, home, doors locked and basically hunker in place until she leaves for work the next day.

Her rapist got 15 years, out in 7 and is presently in prison for life under the three strikes law. All rape convictions.

The suspect in the home invasion ended up with the death penalty for capital murder.

FYI, if you think that killing someone doesn't fuck with you for the rest of your life, you better think again. As a combat vet I have killed men, and it fucks with me daily, or I should say nightly.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 38

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 7:04:03 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Alright, I know Bama has law enforcement experience in the military, and I believe their are other former LEOs using the boards. And I was a deputy sheriff for about four years.

How many people have dealt with the victim of a rape, such as being the first officer on the scene?

How many former LEOs have been the first on the scene of a home invasion call?

I can say yes to both. While there were no dead victims. In the home invasion, the father ended up committing suicide for the reason "he did not do anything to protect his family."

The rape victim did a bit better, a number of years in therapy, overwhelming fear of strange men, and a very fun social life, work, home, doors locked and basically hunker in place until she leaves for work the next day.

Her rapist got 15 years, out in 7 and is presently in prison for life under the three strikes law. All rape convictions.

The suspect in the home invasion ended up with the death penalty for capital murder.

FYI, if you think that killing someone doesn't fuck with you for the rest of your life, you better think again. As a combat vet I have killed men, and it fucks with me daily, or I should say nightly.

Agreed killing, no matter how justified, it NEVER to be taken lightly something that has to be taken
into account before carrying.
I assume this was a FR rather than to me personally.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 39

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 7:14:26 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Agreed killing, no matter how justified, it NEVER to be taken lightly something that has to be taken
into account before carrying.

Do you really think most people consider this?

I would guess most sane people do NOT think about using their weapon to kill someone and never consider it... They think of it as a tool to defend themselves in an emergency. Even though killing may be the result they do not visualize doing it....and will do everything they can not to kill. We only hear the outlandish results because it sells in the news...not because it is what most often happens in real life. To me this gives a false impression of what is the right way to handle these type of encounters.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 40

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Justified use of deadly force

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.141