RE: Justified use of deadly force

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[Poll]

Justified use of deadly force

Prevent a rape

16% (27)

Prevent bodily injury to self or family member

17% (28)

Protect home from intruders

11% (18)

Protect private property.

3% (6)

Protect self from armed attack

18% (30)

Protect self from attack

14% (23)

Finding an intruder in your home

8% (14)

Stop a trespasser

2% (4)

Stop someone attempting to break into your home.

5% (9)

Total Votes : 159

(last vote on : 3/25/2014 8:09:38 AM)
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RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 8:48:58 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would shoot as well in those circumstances... but see how Bama refuses to even consider trying to hold the intruder at gunpoint for the police if possible.

Butch

Read the next post, am awaiting your apology.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 61

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 8:51:00 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

I know there are no guns in Afghanistan. .. but what may i ask do your figures have to do with what I have been saying?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MercTech)

Post #: 62

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 8:53:03 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

That's because I read your post before mine...you can't say one thing then when called change your mind and say the opposite and ask for an apology.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 63

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 8:56:46 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

That's because I read your post before mine...you can't say one thing then when called change your mind and say the opposite and ask for an apology.

Butch

I was typing the second one when yours posted and didn't know
what you had said till after mine was posted. This accusation is also inaccurate.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 64

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 8:57:56 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

That's because I read your post before mine...you can't say one thing then when called change your mind and say the opposite and ask for an apology.

Butch

I never said the opposite, you just read it that way.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 65

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 8:58:04 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

I can't read your mind....I can only go by what you say in the order you say it.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/17/2014 8:59:03 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 66

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 9:00:07 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

I have no problem detaining someone until police arrive, providing they actually get in the house. Being the gun loving psychopath that I am, I basically upgraded the doors and windows of my home within a month of purchase. The entrance door, front and back are metal, in a metal door frame which will stop a police battering ram.

Due to the hail we have around here (when we actually get a thunderstorm capable of dropping rain and hail, see west Texas drought.) All the windows were replaced with polycarbonate panes instead of glass. They are rated to stop a 45 round.

So basically I can sit inside, watch the would be intruder wear himself out trying to get in, while waiting for the police, unfortunately, that means that I cant grab a few guns and shoot the sucker a number of times in order to make sure he is dead.

The reason I still own guns, is the fact that no matter how secure my home is, there is the possibility for someone to actually get in to the home.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 67

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 9:02:42 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I can't read your mind....I can only go by what you say

Never said you had to but your assessment of me was way off track.
I have hand 4 incidents where I could have legally shot someone
And while making it clear, without overt threats, that forcing the issue would be very bad
for them got rid of the problem without shooting anyone.
That is not the way I was portrayed in your post.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 68

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 9:05:23 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

If the guy managed to open your door... and you had a 12 gauge drawn down on him and you said freeze and he didn't I agree... blow his head off. But that is not what has been happening in these cases we have been discussing.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 69

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 9:06:42 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I can't read your mind....I can only go by what you say in the order you say it.

I have never said shooting someone is a good thing.
I have said sometimes it is necessary.
I have often pointed out that it is justified under the law.
And I am revolted by the thought that I owe anyone first strike rights
when they have shown hostility and advised where that course of action will take them.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 70

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 9:08:21 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Bama you and I have many discussions over the last few months on when to shoot and when not to... you have been very consistent in your answers to me ... I suggest you go back and review them.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 71

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 9:56:21 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama you and I have many discussions over the last few months on when to shoot and when not to... you have been very consistent in your answers to me ... I suggest you go back and review them.

Butch

I know what I have said, and I never said you should shoot someone who is
willing to surrender.
You have confused my refusal to accept that the bad guy gets first strike does not
equal shoot first and ask questions later.
Or that my statements that shot, don't shoot being a matter of tactics, which I would expect
to be clear also does not = sfaql
I have mentioned several times that I had used firearms several times to avoid violence but that
has never sunk in to a large segment of our population here.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 72

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 10:06:06 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama you and I have many discussions over the last few months on when to shoot and when not to... you have been very consistent in your answers to me ... I suggest you go back and review them.

Butch

I have also, though it seems to be widely forgotten, supported the convictions in several of these cases.
We have one now where right from the beginning I clearly stated my belief in guilt and was immediately
attacked because I don't think having a gun makes you guilty. And for opposing the collection of firearms.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 73

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/17/2014 10:07:58 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama you and I have many discussions over the last few months on when to shoot and when not to... you have been very consistent in your answers to me ... I suggest you go back and review them.

Butch

You also forget that in every case the side I have argued has been the side the law came down on
or at least the jury, that has to count for something wouldn't you think.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 74

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/18/2014 12:05:08 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

People claim that the US leads the world in gun related deaths, which is not the truth, or even close to the truth.

Gun related deaths in the US is 10.3 per 100,000 people.

In a rating of gun related crime rates, the US is 28th. Source

and these are the countries that have a larger figure for homicides
Honduras
El Salvador
Jamaica
Venezuela
Guatemala
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Trinidad and Tobago
Colombia
Belize
Puerto Rico
Brazil
South Africa
Dominican Republic
Panama
Bahamas
Ecuador
Guyana
Mexico
Philippines
Paraguay
Anguilla
Nicaragua
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Zimbabwe
Costa Rica
Argentina
Barbados
United States

It is indeed number 28 out of 185 countries
Canada is at 56

Australia is at 89
UK is at 99
and only
Brazil (34678)
Colombia(12539)
Mexico(11309)
Venezuela(11115)
are higher than the United States(9146)
when it comes to the number of homicides by firearm
from your own source....

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 3/18/2014 12:08:46 AM >

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<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 75

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/18/2014 11:24:56 AM

MercTech

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Joined: 7/4/2006
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I note that the table was sorted by the total number of homicides by firearm rather than firearm homicides per 100,000 population. (another option there)

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 76

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/18/2014 11:41:24 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

yes but the link given to the guardian showed the per 100.000 pop
and the US is indeed number 28 out of 185 countries
Canada is at 56
Australia is at 89
UK is at 99
the info is downloadable

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to MercTech)

Post #: 77

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/18/2014 9:54:05 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

FR
Perfection is not required for justification.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 78

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/18/2014 10:12:46 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

yes but the link given to the guardian showed the per 100.000 pop
and the US is indeed number 28 out of 185 countries
Canada is at 56
Australia is at 89
UK is at 99
the info is downloadable

Thus endeth the claim that the US leads the world in deaths by gun related crime.

And your point is?

Considering the only way to actually rank countries is per 100.000 people, and as you so nicely pointed out, there is a big distance between the US and those countries above it.

FYI, you might want to look at the gun laws in those countries, if I am not mistaken, private ownership is illegal in at least one of those countries, if not all.

Which if true, kinda sorta fucks up the argument that if you eliminate guns, you eliminate gun related crimes.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 79

RE: Justified use of deadly force - 3/18/2014 10:21:55 PM

MercTech

Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline

http://www.guysmith.org/blog/2014/02/24/piers-plummet/

Guy makes a good point.

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(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 80

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