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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

There was a massive influx of Russkies into Crimea in the very early 70's....wonder what that was all about.  I can't find any suffiiciently causal relationship for it. 

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Not that close. Russian and Ukrainian are similar languages, but with some noticeable differences. I suppose one might say that they started out as the same people with the same culture and language, but (without going into all the gory details) centuries of cultural and political separation caused their cultures and languages to diverge somewhat. It wouldn't be analogous to America and Canada.

"Ukraine" literally means "on the edge/frontier," and they were occupied by outside powers for centuries, mainly Turkey in some parts and Poland-Lithuania in other parts. The rest of Russia was still divided into principalities, although the Moscow princes gained prominence and eventual primacy over central and northern Russia, as well as capitalizing on the power vacuum left in Central Asia by the waning Mongol Empire. It would take a few more centuries before they would get Ukraine back, but from a certain point of view, they probably always thought of it as "theirs." At least, they felt that the territory belonged to them more than it belonged to Poland or Turkey or anyone else. Ancient Russian history actually begins in Kiev, so the area in question definitely plays an integral role in their national consciousness and how they see the world.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

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Not that close. Russian and Ukrainian are similar languages, but with some noticeable differences. I suppose one might say that they started out as the same people with the same culture and language, but (without going into all the gory details) centuries of cultural and political separation caused their cultures and languages to diverge somewhat. It wouldn't be analogous to America and Canada.

"Ukraine" literally means "on the edge/frontier," and they were occupied by outside powers for centuries, mainly Turkey in some parts and Poland-Lithuania in other parts. The rest of Russia was still divided into principalities, although the Moscow princes gained prominence and eventual primacy over central and northern Russia, as well as capitalizing on the power vacuum left in Central Asia by the waning Mongol Empire. It would take a few more centuries before they would get Ukraine back, but from a certain point of view, they probably always thought of it as "theirs." At least, they felt that the territory belonged to them more than it belonged to Poland or Turkey or anyone else. Ancient Russian history actually begins in Kiev, so the area in question definitely plays an integral role in their national consciousness and how they see the world.

Thank you. It is refreshing to see someone answer a question without being an arrogant, snarky dick about it.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

General reply:

I'm getting ready to launch my weekend so I'm going to wrap up my participation on this thread until at least Monday (okay, maybe late Sunday) when I might take it up again. It depends upon whether something shinny distracts me or not.

I have decided that the Russians do have an (at least) arguable claim to the Crimea.

That does not, despite what some people may infer, mean that I agree with their methods. It is a shame that Putin didn't seek a referendum through the U.N. with international election monitors. The Crimea certainly would have voted for session anyway. I also suspect that the Ukrainian people would have been willing to let it go given that the effect is to lessen Russia's control over their country. But no, Putin has to be a dick and play macho strongman for his ego.

I am, however, grateful that we have a President who is not willing to let ego dictate his own responses. I thank whatever gods there may be that we don't have some fundie Christian "God wants me to smite the heathens with his holy fire!" nutcase in the Oval Office." I mean seriously folks, we should all pause a moment and go "WHEW!"

So what happens next? Well, being unwilling to start world war three over pride, we have to accept that the Russian annexation is a done deal. I hope that Putin will be smart enough to be happy with what he has gained and leave it at that. I have serious doubts that he will, though. The man is a bully and bullies get such enjoyment from being dicks that they don't know when to stop. If he does start grabbing other pieces of Ukraine then we may have to consider sending troops to that country (assuming they invite us). I sincerly hope it doesn't come to that but there is only so much you can tolerate from a bully before you draw a line in the sand.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Do the Russians, culturally and historically speaking, have a legitimate claim to the Crimea or any other parts of the Ukraine?

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

Let me answer with a question....


If most of Texas voted to succeed to Mexico because most of Texas was spoke Spanish,had a hispanic world view ,etc.......how would America feel about it?


The legalities over there are pretty much the same.One just can`t make their own nation out of another.I feel bad for Kurds or other oppressed minorities anywhere but don`t think starting wars in Turkey and Iraq to do that, is going to help anyone or make things better for anyone...

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Curious why you think the president might find the ukraine worth defending when crimea wasn't?

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Please DO learn from history; and recent history at that.