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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 9:43:37 AM

dcnovice

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 9:43:50 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You live in Chicago and deny voter and election fraud? You got to be kidding.

And yet I was just reading a rather scholarly paper on the topic yesterday (for this thread) where it said something to the effect of...

"Despite the lurid tales of voter and election fraud in Chicago...."

This is one of those things where I want facts. I'm open to them but so far have seen nothing that would indicate a problem worth more than casual investment of money and effort. And I still want to know why you seem unconcerned that multiple states worth of votes are going to a bunch of servers somewhere where they are being tallied in a black box and then "results" are being given to us. Good lord those folks could say anything at all. This is like worrying about a grill fire as the raging forest fire sweeps down around your house.

Apparently there has been miscommunication. possibly do to some lack of clarity on my part,
my focus was on the subject of the OP.
I have never said that wasn't a problem.
All forms of voter/election fraud need to be attacked.
The thread is , in theory, about voter fraud so that has been my focus.
Fraud is fraud whether it is one vote or one million it is an attempt to corrupt and undermine
elections.
All forms of fraud should be fought, this is why I opposed electronic voting machines from
day one they make fraud so much easier.

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 9:57:38 AM

kdsub

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Of course dc both are a problem... but with voter fraud the rules are so lax that it is impossible, in my view, to get a true count. After the fact it was found there were far more than 10 just in East St. Louis alone in one election...Investigators found many moved voters and dead ones that had voted.

Myself I wonder why folks are so against something when they don't know if it will be a problem or not unless it is tried. Damn things can be changed and altered if problems arise.

Butch

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 11:06:38 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Of course dc both are a problem... but with voter fraud the rules are so lax that it is impossible, in my view, to get a true count. After the fact it was found there were far more than 10 just in East St. Louis alone in one election...Investigators found many moved voters and dead ones that had voted.

Myself I wonder why folks are so against something when they don't know if it will be a problem or not unless it is tried. Damn things can be changed and altered if problems arise.

Butch

They may have another, more noble reason. but I suspect that many, not all of course,
not only benefit from the problem but are participants.

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 11:15:52 AM

Lucylastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

This

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 11:18:01 AM

kdsub

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Here on CM Bama those against ID's I believe have valid reasons for being against them...I just think their fears are unfounded in reality. I hope we address this thread in the future when and if ID's become mainstream and see if the fears are valid.

If it were found that ID laws were having an adverse effect on particular groups of voters then I would be for changes that accommodate them.

Butch

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 11:23:20 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Myself I wonder why folks are so against something when they don't know if it will be a problem or not unless it is tried. Damn things can be changed and altered if problems arise.
Butch

Or, paraphrased, we have to pass the laws to find out if they're necessary. I'm sure all the liberals here will agree to that justification.

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 12:54:51 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Myself I wonder why folks are so against something when they don't know if it will be a problem or not unless it is tried. Damn things can be changed and altered if problems arise.
Butch

Or, paraphrased, we have to pass the laws to find out if they're necessary. I'm sure all the liberals here will agree to that justification.

As soon as we do it to handguns.

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 1:01:22 PM

kdsub

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It would be nice if we all agreed as to the necessity for ID,s but that will not happen.

The fact that the majority of voters in many states think it is necessary should be enough that the minority take a lets see what happens attitude. Instead of accusing everyone for ID's of being right wing conservative racists. It is simply not true.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/22/2014 1:04:07 PM >

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 1:06:34 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Here on CM Bama those against ID's I believe have valid reasons for being against them...I just think their fears are unfounded in reality. I hope we address this thread in the future when and if ID's become mainstream and see if the fears are valid.

If it were found that ID laws were having an adverse effect on particular groups of voters then I would be for changes that accommodate them.

Butch

Oh yes, that is why I said not all.
Doubt that anyone on here is a political boss engaged in these "games"
And of course adjustments would be in order for any unfair hardships.
The idea is to make elections more fair and "pristine".

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 1:09:21 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Myself I wonder why folks are so against something when they don't know if it will be a problem or not unless it is tried. Damn things can be changed and altered if problems arise.
Butch

Or, paraphrased, we have to pass the laws to find out if they're necessary. I'm sure all the liberals here will agree to that justification.

As soon as we do it to handguns.

A not a handgun thread.
B if we follow your idea then each person will need permission from the federal government
each time they go to vote, you really want that.
C you do need to show id to buy a gun

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 1:09:53 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

And of course adjustments would be in order for any unfair hardships.

That sounds promising.

What form would they take?

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 1:11:03 PM

RottenJohnny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

This

The difference is that when someone gets shot, it's pretty hard not to notice. When someone commits voter fraud they may get away with it and no one will notice.

Just sayin'.

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 1:11:32 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

And of course adjustments would be in order for any unfair hardships.

That sounds promising.

What form would they take?

Until I know what the hardships are in reality how can I tell you how to fix them?

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 1:12:33 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
It would be nice if we all agreed as to the necessity for ID,s but that will not happen.
The fact that the majority of voters in many states think it is necessary should be enough that the minority take a lets see what happens attitude. Instead of accusing everyone for ID's of being right wing conservative racists. It is simply not true.
Butch

Butch, my post was tongue-in-cheek (in case you didn't catch it). I'm in favor of requiring ID's. I'm also in favor of installing a policy that helps people get the necessary ID (and required documents, if necessary). IMO, State ID cards should be free, and should have to be renewed every X years (renewals would also be free).

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 1:45:34 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Do you really think anyone registers to vote knowing they're on file at various places as being a non citizen? The states do actually verify that stuff.

yes

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 2:00:39 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

Until I know what the hardships are in reality how can I tell you how to fix them?

That doesn't inspire much confidence in either your grasp of the issue or your promise to address hardships. Isn't knowing the impact of a proposed policy a key part of deciding whether to advocate it?

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 2:25:35 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Until I know what the hardships are in reality how can I tell you how to fix them?

That doesn't inspire much confidence in either your grasp of the issue or your promise to address hardships. Isn't knowing the impact of a proposed policy a key part of deciding whether to advocate it?

The law would have to be crafted to avoid realistic problems we were talking about problems that
developed in spite of this.
It is beneath you to equate disagreement with ignorance.

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 2:49:02 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

The law would have to be crafted to avoid realistic problems

We agree on this point.

What are the "realistic problems" and how would you solve them?

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RE: This is going to get me crucified, but - 3/22/2014 3:05:51 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The law would have to be crafted to avoid realistic problems

We agree on this point.

What are the "realistic problems" and how would you solve them?

Most of the claimed problems are presumptions that it will put a burden on the poor
without looking at or caring about the details.
Alabama has had voter Id for several years and we haven't had the problems imagined
by opponents.
And still Alabama is working to make it easier for the poor.
Maybe the rest of the country (in what would be a great stroke of irony) follow Alabama's
lead in fighting voter fraud while protecting voters rights.
The argument that voter Id bullies minorities into not voting
haven't observed a voting place in Alabama.

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