quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The law would have to be crafted to avoid realistic problems

We agree on this point.

What are the "realistic problems" and how would you solve them?

Most of the claimed problems are presumptions that it will put a burden on the poor
without looking at or caring about the details.
Alabama has had voter Id for several years and we haven't had the problems imagined
by opponents.
And still Alabama is working to make it easier for the poor.
Maybe the rest of the country (in what would be a great stroke of irony) follow Alabama's
lead in fighting voter fraud while protecting voters rights.
The argument that voter Id bullies minorities into not voting
haven't observed a voting place in Alabama.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Here are some of the questions that arise in my mind:

-- What IDs would be acceptable?

-- What documentation would be required to procure an approved ID? Can we be confident that said documentation would prove eligibility to vote? What happens to voters who don't have the documentation they need?

-- Would voters have to obtain IDs in person?

If so . . .

-- Where would ID offices be located?
-- What's a reasonable distance to travel to an ID office?
-- Would they be accessible to public transportation?
-- How would the old and infirm travel to the ID office?
-- Would they be open beyond ordinary business hours?
-- If not, would voters be compensated for lost wages if they must take time off work to obtain an ID?

-- Would the IDs require photos? If so, what would be the process for getting the photos taken? Would one have to purchase the images, as for a passport?

-- Would the IDs require signatures? If so, what would be the mechanism for obtaining them?

-- Would there be fees for obtaining an ID? If so, what would they be? What would be the threshold for defining them as burdensome? If IDs are free, who shoulders the costs of providing them?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The law would have to be crafted to avoid realistic problems

We agree on this point.

What are the "realistic problems" and how would you solve them?

Most of the claimed problems are presumptions that it will put a burden on the poor
without looking at or caring about the details.
Alabama has had voter Id for several years and we haven't had the problems imagined
by opponents.
And still Alabama is working to make it easier for the poor.
Maybe the rest of the country (in what would be a great stroke of irony) follow Alabama's
lead in fighting voter fraud while protecting voters rights.
The argument that voter Id bullies minorities into not voting
haven't observed a voting place in Alabama.

Actually my aunt, born at home in 1924, had quite a bit of trouble getting an ID because she has never had an official BC. All she had was the church birth record. It took several trips to Fort Payne, a 20 odd mile trip for a nearly 90 year old woman who no longer drives, to get that accepted and an ID card issued. If she wasn't so stubborn about it I doubt she would have kept at it. I'm sure a lot of other older people just gave up.

quote:

People take time off from work to renew a drivers license without compensation.
They take time off for lots of things without compensation why should the be paid to get a voter ID
There are about 8 things here that serve as proof that you are who you say you are and the state
will be providing free voter id cards that will also let you get beer or tobacco, which by the way
the people whining about showing a photo id for have no problem showing them to get beer.
They have no problem getting the ids if it is for beer but God forbid they need it to vote.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

People take time off from work to renew a drivers license without compensation.
They take time off for lots of things without compensation why should the be paid to get a voter ID
There are about 8 things here that serve as proof that you are who you say you are and the state
will be providing free voter id cards that will also let you get beer or tobacco, which by the way
the people whining about showing a photo id for have no problem showing them to get beer.
They have no problem getting the ids if it is for beer but God forbid they need it to vote.

This is the third time you've offered generalities instead of any specifics about how the policy you advocate would actually work and affect voters. Your replies make it very hard to believe that you've thought this through in any depth.

quote:

All of your questions boil down to how is the government going to take full
responsibility for people meeting the requirements to vote.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How about sending a mass mailing along with radio and television ads laying out what documents will be required to obtain a voter ID. Make sure these documents are free and easily accessible and obtained perhaps through the mail or internet with 1-800 numbers properly manned for more information.

ID’s could be processed through the mail or at licensing offices or perhaps states could send vouchers for ID’s in the mail for those that had filed income taxes or voted in the last election and these would only require a return mailing or internet activation with the proper Social Security number on a secure network. These vouchers could be presented at the polls or any licencing office where a picture would be taken and the id produced.... In the same manner as a drivers licence....but free of charge.

Allow the registration for the IDs’s to be at the polls when voting so transportation problems will be limited. The votes tabulated at the poll by those registering would be provincial until the information is verified and a permanent ID will be sent in the mail with conformation of the vote. That way there would be few backups at the polls. It would be better if the polls were opened a few days early just to keep waiting shorter.

Just a Few ideas off the top of my head… With time I believe an easy transition could be worked out… Hell you could even give a grace vote and those without the proper ID’s could vote and be given the information they need before their next election…lots of easy things to do to make this painless.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How about sending a mass mailing along with radio and television ads laying out what documents will be required to obtain a voter ID. Make sure these documents are free and easily accessible and obtained perhaps through the mail or internet with 1-800 numbers properly manned for more information.

ID’s could be processed through the mail or at licensing offices or perhaps states could send vouchers for ID’s in the mail for those that had filed income taxes or voted in the last election and these would only require a return mailing or internet activation with the proper Social Security number on a secure network. These vouchers could be presented at the polls or any licencing office where a picture would be taken and the id produced.... In the same manner as a drivers licence....but free of charge.

Allow the registration for the IDs’s to be at the polls when voting so transportation problems will be limited. The votes tabulated at the poll by those registering would be provincial until the information is verified and a permanent ID will be sent in the mail with conformation of the vote. That way there would be few backups at the polls. It would be better if the polls were opened a few days early just to keep waiting shorter.

Just a Few ideas off the top of my head… With time I believe an easy transition could be worked out… Hell you could even give a grace vote and those without the proper ID’s could vote and be given the information they need before their next election…lots of easy things to do to make this painless.

Butch

quote:

Just a Few ideas off the top of my head…

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

I agree. I think there is sense in having proper ID for voting.

But to add to that I think it would be efficient that if you enrol your child in school, your child is automatically set up so that when he/she turns 18, a voting ID would be sent out to their most recent address filed by the school. With this information being handed off to universities/colleges along with your paperwork if you turn 18 after highschool.

There are smart and very sensible ways of doing voter IDs, sadly a lot of the methods proposed by the right wing do it in such a way which make it difficult, if not impossible, for many of the constituents which would have voted against them from actually voting.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

All of your questions boil down to how is the government going to take full
responsibility for people meeting the requirements to vote.

No, they're straightforward logistical questions about how the policy you advocate would work, both in general and specifically to avoid, as you put it, "any unfair hardships."

As for the role of the government, legislators imposing new burdens on the exercise of voting rights have a duty to ensure that they're not enfranchising the citizens they represent.

Of course, if disenfranchisement is actually the covert goal of the exercise, I can see how one might want to shy away from practicalities about how the law will affect folks.

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One thing that wasn't clear was if you'd require voter IDs to bear photographs. That would add a whole other level of logistical complexity.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub
Myself I wonder why folks are so against something when they don't know if it will be a problem or not unless it is tried. Damn things can be changed and altered if problems arise.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
Apparently there has been miscommunication. possibly do to some lack of clarity on my part,
my focus was on the subject of the OP.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

dc I am sure there are plenty of problems with what I proposed... but I think with better minds and more time...and plenty of time for people to get this done...a good plan can be conceived. Yes it will be a bother for all... but just the first time through then things will be routine I think.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Apparently there has been miscommunication. possibly do to some lack of clarity on my part,
my focus was on the subject of the OP.

Fair enough. I just don't why anyone cares about a raindrop when the tsunami is roaring in. But yeah, I'm down with fixing this problem as soon as someone demonstrates that there is a problem and that the fix is cost effective and that the fix doesn't end up disenfranchising more than the very, very occasional collateral damage type person.

edited to add:
I recognize that I may have drunk the liberal kool-aid on this one (regarding disenfranchisement). I remain comfortable with the statement above. Provide a solid ombudsman type function for those caught without valid ID for whatever reason and I'm comfortable with the disenfranchisement portion of the debate.