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Should a gay florist be required to make an arrangement... - 3/24/2014 6:27:36 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		In light of recent events in Arizona, I'm curious to see how those who support making a Christian owned bakery do a cake for a gay wedding (for example) would feel about requiring a gay florist (for example) provide their services to a Phelps funeral?

OP has been edited for clarity - the "church" would not be the only potential client to order an arrangement.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 3/24/2014 6:51:13 PM >

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 6:38:57 PM   
Tkman117


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Status: offline 		First of all, I doubt the WBC would even ask a gay florist to provide their services to the funeral. Second of all, I would bet any gay florist would be happy to provide their services to the WBC. Fighting hate with love and kindness is 100x better than fighting hate with hate. what better to win than doing the opposite of what your opponents expect you to do?

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 6:39:49 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		There is a difference in my book between not baking a cake for someone gay and not making flower arrangements from someone who wanted me dead...What do you think?

Butch

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 6:41:37 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There is a difference in my book between not baking a cake for someone gay and not making flower arrangements from someone who wanted me dead...What do you think?

Butch



I think you are looking for a way to not sound like a complete hypocrite.

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 6:44:07 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

In light of recent events in Arizona, I'm curious to see how those who support making a Christian owned bakery do a cake for a gay wedding (for example) would feel about requiring a gay florist (for example) provide their services to Westboro Baptist?



I don't think you'd have to 'require' it.

I have a feeling that a gay florist would jump at the opportunity for the notoriety alone.

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 6:44:59 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

I would bet any gay florist would be happy to provide their services to the WBC. Fighting hate with love and kindness is 100x better than fighting hate with hate. what better to win than doing the opposite of what your opponents expect you to do?

Did you miss this love and kindness thread?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4659793/tm.htm

K.

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 6:53:01 PM   
TheHeretic


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I've modified the first post with the question - anyone could decide to order flowers for the event, not just the church.

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 6:55:37 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I have a feeling that a gay florist would jump at the opportunity for the notoriety alone.



But what if they wanted no part of such an order, Hill? Should they be required to do so, in violation of their own personal feelings about providing their services to an event they had no desire to support or endorse?

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 6:59:30 PM   
Tkman117


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Status: offline 		Ya, good riddance he's dead, but that doesn't mean we should show his family the same level of hate they showed others. I dislike the WBC just as much as anyone else, but what makes us any different from them if we do the same thing they've done at other funerals?

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 6:59:45 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		So you cannot see the difference?

Butch

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 7:04:53 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

In light of recent events in Arizona, I'm curious to see how those who support making a Christian owned bakery do a cake for a gay wedding (for example) would feel about requiring a gay florist (for example) provide their services to a Phelps funeral?

OP has been edited for clarity - the "church" would not be the only potential client to order an arrangement.

I shut down the "should" factory a long time ago, and am much the happier for it.

If I owned the bakery, I'd be sensitive to the situation, and as the baker, I'd realize I have choices.

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 7:09:27 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So you cannot see the difference?

Butch



I see the difference clearly, Butch. One you think is fine, the other not so much, and now that you have leapt to that conclusion, you will rationalize it.

Both are service providers. Both may have a philosophical/ethical reason not to wish be involved. If we are going to say that a business does not have the right to refuse to provide their services based on that, then the law must apply equally.

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 7:18:45 PM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
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Status: offline 		I'd say yes, they should provide their services should they be asked of it (not that they ever would). They don't have any more reason to deny their customers than a bigot. Yes, these people hate gays. But why should they reciprocate hate with more hate? Money is money, no matter what hand it comes from.

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 7:28:56 PM   
Whippedboy


Posts: 61
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Status: offline 		But no. I don't think the OP DOES see the diff. He simply lists them both as "service providers" with a difference of opinion. Not as one having a difference of opinion and the other protesting funerals, wishing hate and even death on those they have a "difference of opinion" with.
Also, a funeral is a choice. :)
I think it would be hilarious!
Make the flowers and then charge the shit out of them!
Then donate that $$ to the next gay pride parade or something.

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 7:40:54 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whippedboy

Also, a funeral is a choice. :)




And a wedding isn't?

Let's face it, if ya'll can face yourselves. Forcing a Christian who believes gay marriage is wrong to provide business services to a gay wedding is exactly the same as forcing a gay florist who thinks Phelps was a miserable shit to provide services related to his funeral.



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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 7:47:10 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Thought-provoking question. Inasmuch as retailers are obliged by law to sell to anyone who wants to buy - I guess the gay florist would have to sell wreathes to Phelps's (ex) congregation or to his nearest and dearest. That would seem fair, too, at least on the face of it.

Er . . . any law of this nature - pertaining to retailers being legally obliged to sell to anyone who wants to buy from them . . .
would that also apply to a given church? I mean, for instance, would Phelps and the WBC have been had up by the law had they turned away openly gay people who wanted to attend their church?

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 7:47:24 PM   
Tkman117


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Status: offline 		Dude I literally just supplied a straight up answer, I get what you're trying to do but either 1) the comparison is pointless or 2) it has been answered in a way you didn't entirely expect. Get over it.

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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 7:50:03 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I shut down the "should" factory a long time ago, and am much the happier for it.

If I owned the bakery, I'd be sensitive to the situation, and as the baker, I'd realize I have choices.



Well then, let's rephrase, just for you.

If it is appropriate to force a business owner to provide services to an event he/she does not believe in, why would the participants in a different event not be entitled to equal protection under the law?

Actually, the events are quite similar - a traditional ceremony to mark a significant milestone in life. Hell, about the only time I'll set foot in a church is when someone is getting married or buried.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 7:51:23 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whippedboy

Also, a funeral is a choice. :)



In most cases, a funeral ain't a "choice" for the "guest of honor".





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RE: Should a gay florist be required to make an arrange... - 3/24/2014 7:52:02 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Dude I literally just supplied a straight up answer



Dude, it's almost like I don't give a shit what you think, and am just scrolling past your posts, ain't it?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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