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ORIGINAL: MercTech

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
Christian fundamentalist don't want people executed for professing
another religion, Sharia does.

You might be surprised at how many would actually like that. Or, at least criminalizing anything out of their sects dogma. (i.e. the hellbound sins of drinkin', dancin', and card playin')
I think what keeps the sects that really would like to "shoot all the jews, popists and furriners" in line is that our laws are so strict against such.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

You realize that you are putting some might on the same level as they do don't you?

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ORIGINAL: MercTech

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

You realize that you are putting some might on the same level as they do don't you?

I see all government as application of force onto the populace. A democratic form of government implies the populace has input on where the force is applied. A lot of political conflict is a difference in opinion on how and where force is applied to the populace.

Would you agree that one of the fundamental principles of U.S. government is that the government should not muck with religions unless they interfere with secular government? A bit of an extension of the concept that congress shall make no law on the establishment of a state religion. And there have been legal tests where laws that were found to be extension of religious dogma into law were not constitutional. (i.e. Court ordered removing the Blue Laws) And the U.S., in the main, has a culture of tolerance for religious differences. Admittedly, some regional differences in the concept exist. "We are tolerant, we even have Methodists and Pentacostals in town." <grin>

I've even seen the inverse of the prohibition of government interference with religions with an attitude that the church shouldn't muck with politics. I saw congregations explode over the Moral Majority Movement and their penchant for declaring from the pulpit what candidates were suitable for church members to vote for.

Yes, I'm steeped in an American culture that believes the secular government should protect us from having religious dogma enforced on the population with the force of law.

Minor example:
I think it is fine for a person to believe they should do no work on the Sabbath.
I don't think it is quite right for that person to push through local ordinances that say I can't make a hamburger and sell it on Sunday.

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ORIGINAL: MercTech

I guess I tripped over a soap box this morning... in an odd mood. <grin>

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

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Some germans called for genocide also. And you know what? They all participated.

Okay, I wasn't going to respond at first because, truth be told, I don't really like you (when you respond with "bite me" I just don't feel the love [sm=confused.gif] ). Still, I don't dislike you enough to put you on my official Collarme Shitheads List . . . yet.

And, I don't like to leave things hanging if I am going to bolt for the weekend . . . so . . .

All is an absolute term. Of course all Germans did not participate in the Holocaust. Some were too young to understand and so no responsibility can be placed upon them. Some did oppose the regime. Although they were never very well organized or effective, they did oppose. If by "German" you include not just nationality but ethnicity then many German-Americans (as well as some German-Canadians I presume) actively fought against the nazis as Allied soldiers (and many, no doubt were maimed or killed in the process). I had the privilege of knowing one German-American who fought against the nazis - my Grandfather.

Even if we were to agree that a majority of the German population were at least in agreement with the goals of the Holocaust, all that does is point to the ease in which mass delusion can translate into human evil.

I've already said my piece on what is necessary for peace in the Middle East. As for the side topic of Religion that has grown on this thread i'll just sum up
with: I do not care what people believe so long as their beliefs do not violate my rights or the rights of others. If some religious folk want to rail against homosexuality because their god doesn't like it, I accept that as their right. They do not have the right to prevent homosexuals from getting married. Their god has no say in public policy, especially when he is demanding that people be treated like shit. They have the right to whine about my (or anyone else's lack of belief or disrespect for their religion. They don't have the right to actually stop us.

While I may criticize religion in general for its intolerance that does not mean that I regard secular ideologies to be any less capable of intolerance. Any belief system, if it believes it hold a monopoly on the truth, be it religious ("god is never wrong!") or secular ("Marx is never wrong") is dangerous.

I will continue to maintain that intolerance is a primary ingredient (or at least a likely outcome) for most religions. A secular belief system is not beholden to a god (particularly, one who will burn you forever if you don't go along with him) and so at least has a greater probability of self examination, reflection and change.

I wish everyone (even those of you I don't really like [:)]) a great weekend.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: MercTech

I guess I tripped over a soap box this morning... in an odd mood. <grin>

You need to get a better perspective on magnitude.
None of the Christians I know would favor the abolishment of freedom of religion.

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Ah you mean the great german expression"Wir haben es nicht gewusst!"

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The doctrine of Hitler was pretty clear on jews.

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If 'all' is too absolute for you.

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Go nitpick.

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ORIGINAL: MrBukani

An abhorent large part of germans were aware of the genocide of jews and agreed with it.
Does that work better for you.
To me all nazis participated.

And if you wanna go there and talk about american germans who fought against nazis then yes you pick and knit arbitrary to consign your point.
PS I am a dutch german, Happy now?

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An abhorent large part of germans were aware of the genocide of jews and agreed with it.
Does that work better for you.

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To me all nazis participated.

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And if you wanna go there and talk about american germans who fought against nazis then yes you pick and knit arbitrary to consign your point.

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PS I am a dutch german, Happy now?

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
So you are saying that since the 9/11 terrorists claimed to be doing it for Islam that means they were
following the tenants of their religion?

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ORIGINAL: http://www.pewforum.org/2014/01/14/religious-hostilities-reach-six-year-high/
"The share of countries with a high or very high level of social hostilities involving religion reached a six-year peak in 2012, according to a new study by the Pew Research Center. A third (33%) of the 198 countries and territories included in the study had high religious hostilities in 2012, up from 29% in 2011 and 20% as of mid-2007. Religious hostilities increased in every major region of the world except the Americas. The sharpest increase was in the Middle East and North Africa, which still is feeling the effects of the 2010-11 political uprisings known as the Arab Spring.1 There also was a significant increase in religious hostilities in the Asia-Pacific region, where China edged into the “high” category for the first time."

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: http://www.pewforum.org/2014/01/14/religious-hostilities-reach-six-year-high/
"The share of countries with a high or very high level of social hostilities involving religion reached a six-year peak in 2012, according to a new study by the Pew Research Center. A third (33%) of the 198 countries and territories included in the study had high religious hostilities in 2012, up from 29% in 2011 and 20% as of mid-2007. Religious hostilities increased in every major region of the world except the Americas. The sharpest increase was in the Middle East and North Africa, which still is feeling the effects of the 2010-11 political uprisings known as the Arab Spring.1 There also was a significant increase in religious hostilities in the Asia-Pacific region, where China edged into the “high” category for the first time."

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Stuff, in a world with limited resources and covered with human beings we tend to fight over stuff.

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Perhaps I'm missing something but I see a lot of parallels with those that want Sharia imposed with other types of religious fundamentalists that want creation science forced into school curriculums and religion based bans on behaviors given the force of law.

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It continues to choose to use the power to make settlements knowing full well that this is making peace impossible.

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That most Americans have trouble accepting that church and state are essentially one in Muslim/Arab countries?

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

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It continues to choose to use the power to make settlements knowing full well that this is making peace impossible.

It continues to choose to use the power to make settlements knowing full well that not converting to Islam makes peace impossible.

There. Fixed it for you.