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Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 10:21:32 AM

amaidiamond

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Hi everyone,

I was chatting about the infamous "50 Shades" the other day and into my head popped something I had not thought of before. We as a society have age restrictions on certain products, Films that show graphic scenes, Magazines with sexual pictures, websites with erotic written content etc etc.... but nothing in regards to books.

Now whatever your thoughts on 50 shades and books of its ilk, there is no denying that some of the content is very explicit. Graphic sex scenes, BDSM etc... and not just that book, other books containing murder, violence, child molestation etc. If these books were movies they would have an 18/R rating slapped on them fast as anything.

There is also the question of how much impact books, and the written word can shape a person. Using 50 Shades again as an example, the main male character is a rather disturbed individual with pretty major issues and yet millions of women are swooning over him and his written actions, could reading something like that book lead to for example a young person growing up to be a certain way under the belief it is how women/men want them to be)

So, should books be regulated? How young is too young? If an young person should go to a store and wish to purchase a copy of 50 Shades etc is it appropriate to sell it to them?

I am interested in everyone's opinion, I am not yet sure which side of the fence I stand on as I see both good and bad points to each option but it is something that has had me thinking.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 10:35:56 AM

mummyman321

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Should books be regulated. Hell No

Quit getting the government to do a parents job. If you open this door it is a lot wider than you can imagine. BDSM is only one area. What about horror novels? What is too graphic. What about a serial killer novel? Where does one draw the line? Unlike a movie or sneaking on the internet, a book takes time to read. I would hope as a parent you know what your kid is reading. You know what kind of books your kid enjoys and you are actively involved in their life to have a clue. Kids will always sneak things. You will not catch them 100% of the time. But creating regulations on books is not an answer to anything.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:06:21 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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I'm going to say no. In my mind it's down to the parents to protect their kids from what they consider to be inappropriate material. Although personally, I'd rather let the child pick his or her own reading material but also read it myself so I can help put anything difficult into context. At six, I'd probably pre-read my child's books to make sure it's something she could handle, but by the time she's old enough to buy her own books and reading at an adult level, I doubt I will feel the need.

My parents never censored my reading. I was an early reader and was reading adult books before I hit my teenaged years, and they certainly didn't know the content of every book I read, but had I been troubled by anything I could have talked to them. I don't think I would be the person I am now if I wasn't allowed to read so widely.

The other thing is, how do you decide what's appropriate? Who is the judge of that? In my mind children and teens need to read books about controversial and difficult topics. It gives them a safe space to explore these things. I've got young adult and children's books on my shelves that deal with abuse, heroin addiction, the holocaust, infanticide, racism, being gay and political persecution. I don't want someone telling me those topics aren't suitable for kids and young people. For one thing, many kids and young people are dealing with some of those topics every day, and they're all going out into the big wide world sooner or later.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:09:12 AM

Baldrick

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I think no as well but I think there should be a rating system like movies, so people will know what might be age inappropriate

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:09:35 AM

SylvereApLeanan

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~FR~

I agree with the previous posters who said no. It's up to me to decide what my kids read or don't read. I remember the row back in the 80s when the "Explicit" label on CDs became a standard. I thought it was ridiculous at the time and I still think it's unnecessary. There will always be content in books, movies, etc. that isn't suitable for some viewers. However, it's up to the viewer to determine where their personal boundaries are. In the case of people under the age of 18, it's up to parents to be engaged and make sure they know what their kids are doing.

The truth is, 50 Shades is fan fiction of the YA (Young Adult) Twilight series, which are aimed at girls age 13+. The fact that it substitutes BDSM for vampires and werewolves is largely irrelevant. The Twilight series would probably not get an explicit label, yet it contains all the problematic relationship issues of 50 Shades. In fact, many romance novels contain similar tropes in addition to steamy sex scenes. Regular readers learn to recognize imprint labels so they know which ones are going to be R-rated and which will be closer to PG-13. To a certain extent, books are already labeled according to imprint logo and which how they're categorized.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:17:04 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

~FR~

I agree with the previous posters who said no. It's up to me to decide what my kids read or don't read. I remember the row back in the 80s when the "Explicit" label on CDs became a standard. I thought it was ridiculous at the time and I still think it's unnecessary. There will always be content in books, movies, etc. that isn't suitable for some viewers. However, it's up to the viewer to determine where their personal boundaries are. In the case of people under the age of 18, it's up to parents to be engaged and make sure they know what their kids are doing.

The truth is, 50 Shades is fan fiction of the YA (Young Adult) Twilight series, which are aimed at girls age 13+. The fact that it substitutes BDSM for vampires and werewolves is largely irrelevant. The Twilight series would probably not get an explicit label, yet it contains all the problematic relationship issues of 50 Shades. In fact, many romance novels contain similar tropes in addition to steamy sex scenes. Regular readers learn to recognize imprint labels so they know which ones are going to be R-rated and which will be closer to PG-13. To a certain extent, books are already labeled according to imprint logo and which how they're categorized.

Excellent point. If the objection is the bad relationship examples, they'd exist without the sex. And the sex is the thing most likely to get something an 18 rating, not the dysfunctional relationships.

Besides, if we're going to restrict books based on bad examples, where do we draw the line? How do we determine who will think 'hey this is a character I should emulate' and who is capable of appreciating the story without seeing it as a guide for life? And how do we decide what is and isn't appropriate for kids to aspire to? Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the princess stuff aimed at small girls, but it's down to me as a parent to put it into context for my child.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:19:26 AM

amaidiamond

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I have to admit I think if I needed to choose one way or the other I would be inclined to think that young people should be able to read as they wish, I actually discovered a lot about myself via reading and read anything and everything I could get my hands on as a child.

I remember one book I read over and over as maybe an 10/11 year old. It was your typical bodice ripper and centered around a young gypsy woman who was kidnapped and held captive by a handsome but rough man and basically repeatedly raped and violated until eventually of course she grew to love and adore the man that she feared because when he was kind to her he was so charming, and of course in the nature of that type of book, he discovered his gentle side and in the end she "tamed" him and they lived happily ever after. Looking back now it basically involved rape, sexual abuse, assault and stockholme syndrome but at the time it was the most exciting thing I had ever read, I didn't really understand the topics as it were all that well.

I honestly don't know how much that book shaped me and who I am now, I know I very much go towards the O/p and CNC side of things but I don't know if I identified with that book because of how I am wired or maybe I am wired that way because of things I read/experiences I had.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:25:18 AM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

Besides, if we're going to restrict books based on bad examples, where do we draw the line? How do we determine who will think 'hey this is a character I should emulate' and who is capable of appreciating the story without seeing it as a guide for life? And how do we decide what is and isn't appropriate for kids to aspire to? Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the princess stuff aimed at small girls, but it's down to me as a parent to put it into context for my child.

Exactly. And it's not as though romance novels haven't received criticism for promoting unrealistic or dysfunctional relationship expectations. Like the princess movies, romance novels have been criticized for how they portray women and how they serve to promote problematic gender issues. Readers have already voted with their wallets and the industry has changed to include strong, sassy women who take no bull as well as men who can be sensitive to a partner's needs and still be seen as a manly guy.

But the bottom line is what I've highlighted in your post - it's up to parents to put things in context and not up to the publishing industry, the schools, or the government. That's one of many reasons why we have a week dedicated to recognizing the literary merit of banned and challenged books.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:29:04 AM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond
So, should books be regulated? How young is too young? If an young person should go to a store and wish to purchase a copy of 50 Shades etc is it appropriate to sell it to them?

Books don't need age restrictions. Children need parents.

But aside from philosophical platitudes, this is the information age. You aren't going to keep a child from reading 50 shades if they want to. Most of them could readily tell you how to download the book from the internet.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:33:40 AM

amaidiamond

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Books don't need age restrictions. Children need parents.

Now that would solve a whole lot of issues in this world!

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:36:28 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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I don't believe in age restrictions for books or frankly any other media content, like movies or erotic magazines. I agree parents should function as parents, it's too bad more of them don't.

I very heavily restricted my children's TV viewing when they were young (under 13). I didn't care if they saw naked people, that's normal to me, but violence? No way. As they aged I used TV and other media as a way to open up communication about what they were thinking and feeling.

By 13, kids are going to access what ever media they can get to that piques their interest. It's far better for the parent to be there and in the know so you can do some damage control if you need to.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:44:05 AM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond
So, should books be regulated? How young is too young? If an young person should go to a store and wish to purchase a copy of 50 Shades etc is it appropriate to sell it to them?

Books don't need age restrictions. Children need parents.

In the present incarnation of society, parents are not allowed to be parents because anything that is more extreme than a time out is considered child abuse, just like taking a picture of your infant in the bath tub without swim trunks is child porn.

Other things reported as child abuse:
Making children eat healthy meals and snacks.
Limiting tv or internet time.
Making the child do chores.
Tracking children's cell phone locations.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:47:05 AM

OsideGirl

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Even many of the books that are regarded as classics and are assigned reading as teenagers have disturbing themes and graphic descriptions of injury, death and childbirth. Hell, The Hunger Games was written as a young adult book.

So, while I can understand that somethings are not appropriate for younger readers, I think it's up to the parents to pay attention to what their kids are reading.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:50:43 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In the present incarnation of society, parents are not allowed to be parents because anything that is more extreme than a time out is considered child abuse, just like taking a picture of your infant in the bath tub without swim trunks is child porn.

Other things reported as child abuse:
Making children eat healthy meals and snacks.
Limiting tv or internet time.
Making the child do chores.
Tracking children's cell phone locations.

What?

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Being your slave, what should I do but tend
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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:54:56 AM

hlen5

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Another no vote.

When I read the question my first thought was books about sexual abuse in some libraries. Those are the books that fly off the shelves. It's validating. People need to know they are not alone. Grading and quantifying books might keep them out of the right hands as well as the wrong ones.

Isn't it part of the purpose of books to share experiences? I think people will pick-up books they can relate to and most won't pick a book beyond their comprehension.

Do I want younger people to read some of the stuff available? Hell no. There's stuff I won't investigate, like Dolcett.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:55:42 AM

theshytype

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I say no and it is over kill.

As of right now, I have plenty of say and knowledge as to the types of books they're reading. By the time my children reach the age when they are purchasing their own books, purchasing online through their own bank accounts, or taking themselves to the library to get a book, I'm going to be thrilled they're still reading.

If parents are that concerned with what books their children are reading, they should be more careful with their personal stash. That's how I first learned about Kama Sutra.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 11:59:36 AM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In the present incarnation of society, parents are not allowed to be parents because anything that is more extreme than a time out is considered child abuse, just like taking a picture of your infant in the bath tub without swim trunks is child porn.

Other things reported as child abuse:
Making children eat healthy meals and snacks.
Limiting tv or internet time.
Making the child do chores.
Tracking children's cell phone locations.

What?

To which point?

Everyone of these accusations have started CPS investigations including bath tub pictures. A sane society would consider all these incidents bullshit, but ours hasn't.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 12:08:19 PM

amaidiamond

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That is another really damn scary point tbh...

I remember when my niece was two and a bit, she was pretending to be a kangaroo after going to the zoo and wandering around with a soft toy in the front of her nappy being a mummy kangaroo... she looked adorable and her mum asked me to snap a pic as I had my phone handy and I was scared to. I took the pic but the fact snapping something totally innocent can lead to such things (like the bathtub pic that sparked a massive investigation) is worrying

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 12:08:29 PM

mummyman321

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Classics like "The Catcher in the Rye" by JD Salinger, "Lord of the Flies" by William Golding, and even "The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer" have adult themed content. Yet these are standard reading materials for most high schools. I still laugh at remembering the first time I read The Canterbury Tales and Absalon thrusts the red-hot poker up the middle of Nicholas' arse. I could not believe they said arse in a book! And someone shoved a red hot poker in it on top of that! And it still makes me laugh today some 30+ year later :)

I knew these books were fiction. Both from my parents and from my English classes in school. There was never an illusion these works were in fact real. But simply written to be entertaining and to convey the author's ideas of various issues in life.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 12:13:23 PM

AthenaSurrenders

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To all of it.

I'd love to see you cite those cases. But I suspect even if you can, they will be relatively sensational news stories with only half of the information shared.

Getting reported to, or even investigated by CPS or Social Services or the local equivalent does NOT mean something is child abuse. It means a concern has been raised. Also 'making kids do chores' might be innocent 99% of the time, but there's always going to be a few nutcases who do work their kids to the point of abuse. Likewise providing healthy food and banning junk food is going to be good parenting most of the time, but it doesn't mean that some individuals can't take it to the point of abuse through force feeding or starving their kids. You're likely to hear 'parents investigated for making kids do chores!!!1!' but you're not likely to hear the full story - that the chores were wildly inappropriate, or enforced by beatings, or at the expense of their education OR that the CPS investigated and found out it was all entirely innocent and appropriate.

This whole 'parents aren't allowed to raise their kids properly' stuff is just an excuse for people who are too lazy or ignorant to figure out how to parent without using violence as a deterrent and feel hard done to that society no longer finds that appropriate.

Not to mention none of what you listed impacts on parents making informed choices with or for their children about reading materials.

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Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

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