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RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/8/2006 9:40:43 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline 		The problem of finances definitely extends beyond this lifestyle.  It's a problem for the entire U.S. population.  Hasn't it ever struck you as odd that we never received any education on how to manage our finances in school (and I don't mean college level and/or business related courses)?  Our culture assumes our parents will teach us this important skill...and what do they know?  Most of the parents in my generation had only one thing to say...open a savings account.
 
Putting money in a savings bank does only one thing...it keeps the money current with inflation.  It does not "grow" your nest egg into something you can eventually retire on...even if you save all your life.  The only way to make money if you're not inheriting it or winning the lottery is to pay yourself first out of your paycheck and put it to work in places like the stock market, real estate, and other forms of investing.
 
Credit cards.  These insidious instruments do not EVER save you money.  Everything you charge will cost you more than if you pay cash...plain and simple.  You should have only one card, never use it except for emergencies (real emergencies), and pay it off immediately or as soon as possible.  The longer you leave that balance hanging, the more you will pay on top of the original expenditure.
 
To be in good financial health, you should have 6 months worth of your current monthy NET income saved in a money market fund or other liquid investment that won't penalize you for making a withdrawal if you need it.  This is separate from any money you're investing or have in a company 401(k).  People will say this all sounds hard, impossible, takes the fun out of living, etc....but it's not and those same people are the ones over their head in debt.
 
The lending industry and the consumer industry wants everyone to spend their money.  They could care less about the consequences you will take upon yourself when you finally cannot make ends meet.  After all, it's your responsibility to manage your money...not theirs.
 
You should own money, not owe money.  Pay yourself first and do not listen to your friends or worry about social status, and not doing everything everyone else does just because they do it.
 
anthrosub
 
P.S.  I learned this the hard way.  Today, I have a positive net worth, so I guess I'm rich.   

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/8/2006 10:21:48 PM   
zenofeller


Posts: 463
Joined: 6/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Yes and those idiots in Washington keep trying to tell us that things like NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, "Free Trade" deals Foreign Aid and this "Global Economy" crap are "good" for us!
Time to throw ALL of them out on their asses!


you know, it's remarkable how the us citizen thinks things like nafta, cafta, gatt etc are a way for the us to be leeched of money by those dirty foreigners, while each and every foreign party i have lived in (which means most) is firmly convinced nafta, cafta, gatt etc are just a way for the us to leech money off them at gunpoint.

makes me wonder why do people even bother with the damned things. oh no, on second thought, it makes me wonder why do we even listen to the average citizen.

after all, hes too dumb to do fractions, forget about macroeconomics.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/8/2006 10:42:22 PM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		It's our liberal socialist government that is ruining us, not foreign competition. When almost half of the cost of American retail goods is now added on in taxes, we are hamstrung in a global economy.

We can't compete,we aren't allowed to.

(in reply to zenofeller)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 12:04:38 AM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

It's our liberal socialist government that is ruining us, not foreign competition. When almost half of the cost of American retail goods is now added on in taxes, we are hamstrung in a global economy.

We can't compete,we aren't allowed to.



       I have to disagree pretty stongly.  Some people prefer to bitch and blame than work.  I know people at all economic levels (not nearly enough multi-millionaires for any of it to rub off though, dammit) and the people at the bottom fall into one of three categories; a) Unable to work because of some kind of disability,  b) unwilling to work and c) stupid with the money they do make.

     For crying out loud people, the number 1 health problem among the poor in this country is OBESITY!!!  Get over the 90210 expectations and get busy.

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 12:15:28 AM   
KevinS


Posts: 24
Joined: 12/18/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoctorDubious
It's no surprise that people
who live on the edges of society
who live on the edges of sensation
who live on the edges of experience

... like musicians,
..... and artists,
.........and perverts like us

also live on the edges and margins of finance.



My vote for best answer so far, and really, one of the few to address the OP.

The OP makes a very valid statement; having been involved in the scene for some 10yrs in several US cities, I've come to expect that those in the het public Scene will be on the lower end of the economic scale.  Anyone who wishes to dispute that only has to look at any local group offering caveats for events like "$5 cover, but no one will be turned away due to lack of funds".  When I ran a BDSM club in San Francisco, I'd estimate about half of the people attending a party would ask for work exchange as they couldn't afford basic cover and gas. 

Most Dominants I've met (again, het, public) are under employed or unemployed, and oftentimes are seeking to counterbalance that lack of control and power in their regular life by having it in their private life.  Interestingly, I don't find this to be the case in the gay BDSM/Leather community (male), but I find it drastically so in the lesbian BDSM community.  In the "private" BDSM scene, where people aren't coming out to munches & parties, you tend to find a higher level of income, by a sad logical fact that they aren't coming out to public scene events due to risk to their jobs.

All that said, Curios makes a good point that income level may not affect compatibility.
However, I do believe that a large gulf in income, lifestyle, social background, are indeed areas that can affect compatibility greatly.


_____________________________

"If one man wants another man dead badly enough, he'll find a way to kill him.
If he happens to be wealthy and psychotic, then this poses less problems than it would for most people."
- John Brizzolara

(in reply to DoctorDubious)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 12:17:48 AM   
Thoradon


Posts: 26
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline 		I would have to disagree there WyrdRich.  Some would give anything to be able to work and make a good wage for the same company until they can retire.  However, now with all the outsouceing and what not people are being laid off when they have been with one company for 30 years and still not getting the benifits of working that long in retirement due to the fact that they are 2 or 3 years to young.  Yet the bussiness is making there money and could give a dam how much time was put it.

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 12:49:07 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		This seems to be basically the consensus in this thread and I agree with it.  There are wealthy people in BDSM, just not many of them.  There are wealthy vanillas, just not many of them.  Most BDSM people I meet have less money than I do, but the same goes of vanillas.

There is one difference I've noticed: vanillas tend to be more awed by (signs of) wealth than kinks are.  I had a vanilla guest at my house today and she was in mental-orgasm space over my property.  Snob--but I suppose I have to forgive her; she's going through a rough divorce and a nice house isn't in her foreseeable future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkraven6

Sad to say, from what I hear and see, thats how it is everywhere now days. 

(in reply to Darkraven6)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 1:10:06 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bookitty66
This could just be an observation, but it does seem that the majority of the people that I have met in the lifestyle have barely been able to pay their own rent.

I have met some that are wealthy, or at least better off, but so many seem to be barely making it.
It isn't a lifestyle thing, it's a phucked/bad economy.   I don't care what the economists say;  I know a huge amount of people are having difficulty making it.    M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to bookitty66)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 1:45:51 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bookitty66

This could just be an observation, but it does seem that the majority of the people that I have met in the lifestyle have barely been able to pay their own rent.

I have met some that are wealthy, or at least better off, but so many seem to be barely making it.

Just my area or??

Honestly, I don't know.

I posted in another thread part of a Kinsey report.  In that, it indicated that something like 70% of people in BDSM in the US made $25,000 or more per year and more than 35% made more than $50,000 / year.  But that report was done in 1998-99, seven years ago.  Apparently a lot has changed in those seven years if what I read in this thread is any representation of the majority.

As for myself, I can't say that I relate to your experience.  I'm not broke.  Actually I'm in the best financial shape of my life and in a few months I plan to buy a nice 3 or 4 bedroom house for myself.  Don't really need that much space, but I'm planning ahead for some slaves.

The only thing about my situation that I think is surprising is the fact that three years ago I was virtually bankrupt.  I went to work for someone who turned out to be a crook and pretty much literally lost everything.  I fought to come back from that, and its been a hard road but I've done it.  If I sound a little proud of that, its cause I am.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to bookitty66)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 4:49:13 AM   
MistressMelissa


Posts: 226
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings,

This lifestyle is about control. Call it a power exchange or whatever term you wish to employ. I have stated many times that this control is not about how well you can control a scene, but how well you can control yourself, your life and your "house". What does it matter if your the greatest "Top" in the world with a $10,000 toy bag and yet you are facing eviction for not paying your rent/mortgage? I have watched people pull a brand new $300 flogger out of their toy bag and yet overheard them say they could not afford their rent this month. We all make choices. How we allocate the monies that we have is what makes us different. Unfortunately many would rather book a weekend at a convention then pay their gas bill. As a society we believe someone owes us a glamorous cushy life. My last couch lasted 25 years. My sister in-law redecorates her house every 5 years or when ever she gets board. A disposable society is expensive. Every weekend my table is stretched out, set with linen, my guests seated and served by the house slave. Her table service skills are improving and honestly the food coming from my kitchen is better tasting, healthier and better served than most restaurants. My table seats 8 and it is full most weekends. I much prefer to discuss topics at my table than at some event or party. Properly prepared I can serve 8 at my table for the cost of two meals at a nice restaurant. I often serve Italian, a brisket or some other economical meal. It tastes good and is well presented. That's called economy and spending my dollar wisely. I can open a $8 bottle of what I jokingly call my house wine, decant it and set it on the table for a third of what it would cost me in a restaurant.  If you take a walk through the "Dollar Store" you can find many wonderful pervertables. One of my favorites is a $3 electric fly swatter which clearly states on the handle that it is not a toy.... Really now? When your blindfolded, can you really tell if I hit you with a $30 homemade or a $300 custom made flogger?  If you can master yourself, including your finances, then you can master that smart assed little wench you have had your eye on.  As for poly, there are advantages financially but the emotional effort and skill required to balance and meet all the needs of everyone in your house is not a task to be taken lightly.  I leave you with this thought. Money is like a play toy. It does not matter how much money you spent on it but how well you can use what you have. Just because I spend 10x more on a toy, does not mean I will produce 10x's the enjoyment. Spend your money wisely and with realistic expectations and you will be happy. Sure, I'd love a bigger house and more room for additional slaves; but I really don't have it too bad. I already live a life that many claim is a fantasy and are jealous of. Hard work and some hard choices got me to where I am today. So I work hard and I put my dollar, just one, down for a Power Ball ticket, just because its fun to dream. MelissaMistress of Ds Havenwww.dshaven.com

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 4:58:00 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well said, Mistress Melissa. My sister, a divorce and family law attorney, has a term for wealthy clients who really somehow believe that Tommy Hilfiger jeans are "better" and that a five-car garage at their house means they must then, fill them with five cars.

She calls them: "Stupid rich people", as in: "I wish the world had even more stupid rich people so I could get even more wealthy clients who think money grows on trees", hehe...sorry if this comment offended anyone. If so, it was not intentional.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/9/2006 5:02:04 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MistressMelissa)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 5:00:26 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Wow...what a success story.  Good for you.

< Message edited by bandit25 -- 7/9/2006 5:08:47 AM >

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 5:01:37 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, congratulations, Padriag!

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 5:13:15 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

The problem of finances definitely extends beyond this lifestyle.  It's a problem for the entire U.S. population.  Hasn't it ever struck you as odd that we never received any education on how to manage our finances in school (and I don't mean college level and/or business related courses)?  Our culture assumes our parents will teach us this important skill...and what do they know?  Most of the parents in my generation had only one thing to say...open a savings account.
 
Putting money in a savings bank does only one thing...it keeps the money current with inflation.  It does not "grow" your nest egg into something you can eventually retire on...even if you save all your life.  The only way to make money if you're not inheriting it or winning the lottery is to pay yourself first out of your paycheck and put it to work in places like the stock market, real estate, and other forms of investing.
 
Credit cards.  These insidious instruments do not EVER save you money.  Everything you charge will cost you more than if you pay cash...plain and simple.  You should have only one card, never use it except for emergencies (real emergencies), and pay it off immediately or as soon as possible.  The longer you leave that balance hanging, the more you will pay on top of the original expenditure.
 
To be in good financial health, you should have 6 months worth of your current monthy NET income saved in a money market fund or other liquid investment that won't penalize you for making a withdrawal if you need it.  This is separate from any money you're investing or have in a company 401(k).  People will say this all sounds hard, impossible, takes the fun out of living, etc....but it's not and those same people are the ones over their head in debt.
 
The lending industry and the consumer industry wants everyone to spend their money.  They could care less about the consequences you will take upon yourself when you finally cannot make ends meet.  After all, it's your responsibility to manage your money...not theirs.
 
You should own money, not owe money.  Pay yourself first and do not listen to your friends or worry about social status, and not doing everything everyone else does just because they do it.
 
anthrosub
 
P.S.  I learned this the hard way.  Today, I have a positive net worth, so I guess I'm rich.   


Excellent post, anthro. I'm in the negative at the moment, but one of my primary goals is reversing that.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to anthrosub)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 5:19:22 AM   
pqwinny


Posts: 117
Joined: 6/23/2006
Status: offline 		Similar story to Padriag except i was unable to avoid the bankruptcy.  The whole process forced me to look at my attitudes and beliefs about money, wealth and self-deprivation.  It was a difficult thing to go through but i came out the other side solid in the simple understanding that abundance exists and is there for the tapping-in-to (and learning to live with your means doesn't hurt either )

_____________________________

I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 6:00:27 AM   
enigmaslave


Posts: 146
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline 		We still seem to have many people with the inocent and niave 50-60's work mentality. (Study hard, get a good job, work there for life, and retire)

It's disappointing to hear people whine and complain that they feel they should be able to expect a company to look after them. Companies owe you only what you agreed apon when you "signed" on to start working.

Please learn that fact, and learn it well.

Life will much easier when YOU take responcibility for your own finaces.

"Give a man a fish-he eats for a day, teach him to fish, he will always have food"

(in reply to pqwinny)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 7:15:47 AM   
bondagemastertj


Posts: 26
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I am a drugless hippie, A bald headed, ford driving drugless hippie. Now where did I put those pills........
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

That's why the idea of a self sufficient poly enclave appeals Hugs. I feel like a drugless Hippie sometimes.


(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 7:20:30 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		The only real security these days is to own land that is paid for,with enough room to also grow food. And run your own business, with a stable market.

That's what I am working towards, anything where you work for others is pretty much a crap shoot.

(in reply to bondagemastertj)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 8:05:48 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		There's the crux of it right there. Most people are stupid with money no matter how much they have.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy
So long as your not stupid with your money.

(in reply to KarbonCopy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: broke in the lifestyle? - 7/9/2006 8:21:55 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub
Our culture assumes our parents will teach us this important skill...and what do they know?  Most of the parents in my generation had only one thing to say...open a savings account.


My uneducated immigrant parents taught me a lot about being careful with  money, personal responsibility and waiting to buy things when you can afford them. They never had credit cards, the only debt they ever took on was a mortgage (and paid that off in about 10 years) and if they didn't have the cash to pay for something they either didn't buy it or saved for it.
 
quote:


Credit cards.  These insidious instruments do not EVER save you money.  Everything you charge will cost you more than if you pay cash...plain and simple.  You should have only one card, never use it except for emergencies (real emergencies), and pay it off immediately or as soon as possible.  The longer you leave that balance hanging, the more you will pay on top of the original expenditure.


Credit cards are not insidious and to imply that it's all the credit card's fault is just another way of shirking personal responsibility. Nobody FORCES someone to max out their card. Nobody FORCES someone to buy that $700 pair of Manolos just because there's room on the card and they deserve a treat and they'll pay it off quickly (sure you will honey). Credit is not the problem - people's attitudes about how they use credit is the problem. I'm a virtually cashless person (despite what my parents taught me) but I use my credit like cash - if I can't afford it right now then I don't buy it. If I don't already have funds earmarked for the item I wait to buy it. If buying it means I'll be carrying a balance at the end of the month I don't buy it.  I can't even tell you what the interest rate on my credit card is because I never carry a balance and never pay a lick of interest so the rate is of little relevance. However, I do get 'rewards' for using my no-fee card so the way I see it is that I'm using the card to my best advantage - use it like cash and get the rewards which equals free stuff for me just for buying things I would have bought anyway and are already budgeted for. So yes, this insidious little instrument of doom does save me money. I use my reward points for groceries (not stupid luxuries like trips and shit) which saves me money. Then I decide what to do with the money I save (trip, retirment fun, Manolos...ok, no Manolos since I'm not a shoe girl but you get the idea).
 
quote:


To be in good financial health, you should have 6 months worth of your current monthy NET income saved in a money market fund or other liquid investment that won't penalize you for making a withdrawal if you need it.  This is separate from any money you're investing or have in a company 401(k).  People will say this all sounds hard, impossible, takes the fun out of living, etc....but it's not and those same people are the ones over their head in debt.


That's a very sound idea and one that very few people actually follow, unfortunately.
 
quote:


The lending industry and the consumer industry wants everyone to spend their money.  They could care less about the consequences you will take upon yourself when you finally cannot make ends meet.  After all, it's your responsibility to manage your money...not theirs.


And they're absolutely right. It's not their responsibility to manage people's money for them. If you use your brain you can use these financial products (like credit cards) to your advantage. You don't have to be a rocket scientist, you just need to have a little self control and let's face it very few people have that. 

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 7/9/2006 8:25:52 AM >

(in reply to anthrosub)
Profile   Post #: 40
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