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RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/10/2014 3:47:39 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
From Chicago Magazine

Submitted without comment to avoid tainting the information.


Have you never heard of copyright?


Actually that's not against copyright laws. BamaD placed the article in its entirety (including the advertisments....damn it man!). But it was done in good faith. The article does give quite an argument of that 'drop in crime' rate. Its neither due to harsh winters or CCW, but something even worst....clerical errors and misdirection.

BamaD posted the information enough to find it online if I wanted. In fact its right here. He doesn't have anything to gain financially from posting it. But, my god man! That was freaking LONG! You could have just given an link....

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/10/2014 1:56:00 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Get it through your head. Expectations of a law ramp up before implimentation.
For example: healthcare, where employers shed hundreds of thousands of full time jobs in expectation PRIOR to implimentation.

So 16 months prior to ordinary citizens being allowed a ccw, violent criminals curtailed their behaviour in fear of the guns that their potential victims might acquire in the future?

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/10/2014 3:24:43 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
From Chicago Magazine

Submitted without comment to avoid tainting the information.


Have you never heard of copyright?


Actually that's not against copyright laws. BamaD placed the article in its entirety (including the advertisments....damn it man!). But it was done in good faith. The article does give quite an argument of that 'drop in crime' rate. Its neither due to harsh winters or CCW, but something even worst....clerical errors and misdirection.

BamaD posted the information enough to find it online if I wanted. In fact its right here. He doesn't have anything to gain financially from posting it. But, my god man! That was freaking LONG! You could have just given an link....

It is most definitely a copyright violation. You cannot reproduce a copyrighted work without the owners permission in whole period.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 4/10/2014 3:25:01 PM >

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/10/2014 9:19:03 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
From Chicago Magazine

Submitted without comment to avoid tainting the information.

Have you never heard of copyright?

Actually that's not against copyright laws. BamaD placed the article in its entirety (including the advertisments....damn it man!). But it was done in good faith. The article does give quite an argument of that 'drop in crime' rate. Its neither due to harsh winters or CCW, but something even worst....clerical errors and misdirection.

BamaD posted the information enough to find it online if I wanted. In fact its right here. He doesn't have anything to gain financially from posting it. But, my god man! That was freaking LONG! You could have just given an link....

It is most definitely a copyright violation. You cannot reproduce a copyrighted work without the owners permission in whole period.


This post is getting off topic, Moderators. So I beg some latitude in making my points here...

I can take something straight from the Boston Globe, post it here, and not be in violation of copy rights assuming certain conditions. That I give the full name of the article, the author(s), and where it can be found. The Boston Globe has three different editions (with stars on the front page). So, "How to tell if your a Game of Thrones Addict" by Walter White, April 1, 2014, Boston Globe, establishes WHO the copyright belongs to. This site is not a paid site. Can the work be found in the public area known as 'the internet'? Yes. However, its the Moderator's decision on whether the post remains, modified, or deleted. Generally that was a very....long...post that BamaD could have posted a link. All an all its a lesson for all of us to learn from.



(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/10/2014 10:15:02 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Get it through your head. Expectations of a law ramp up before implimentation.
For example: healthcare, where employers shed hundreds of thousands of full time jobs in expectation PRIOR to implimentation.

So 16 months prior to ordinary citizens being allowed a ccw, violent criminals curtailed their behaviour in fear of the guns that their potential victims might acquire in the future?

See the link in Joethers post, 141 and you will both see the real reason for the "crime drop"
in Chicago.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 2:55:49 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
From Chicago Magazine

Submitted without comment to avoid tainting the information.

Have you never heard of copyright?

Actually that's not against copyright laws. BamaD placed the article in its entirety (including the advertisments....damn it man!). But it was done in good faith. The article does give quite an argument of that 'drop in crime' rate. Its neither due to harsh winters or CCW, but something even worst....clerical errors and misdirection.

BamaD posted the information enough to find it online if I wanted. In fact its right here. He doesn't have anything to gain financially from posting it. But, my god man! That was freaking LONG! You could have just given an link....

It is most definitely a copyright violation. You cannot reproduce a copyrighted work without the owners permission in whole period.


This post is getting off topic, Moderators. So I beg some latitude in making my points here...

I can take something straight from the Boston Globe, post it here, and not be in violation of copy rights assuming certain conditions. That I give the full name of the article, the author(s), and where it can be found. The Boston Globe has three different editions (with stars on the front page). So, "How to tell if your a Game of Thrones Addict" by Walter White, April 1, 2014, Boston Globe, establishes WHO the copyright belongs to. This site is not a paid site. Can the work be found in the public area known as 'the internet'? Yes. However, its the Moderator's decision on whether the post remains, modified, or deleted. Generally that was a very....long...post that BamaD could have posted a link. All an all its a lesson for all of us to learn from.

You are simply wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
In short, the owner of a work controls its reproduction, in full, period.

Bama could have posted the first paragraph and a link to the rest legally but posting the entire article is a clear violation. There is not even reason to discuss this.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 4:01:45 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
From Chicago Magazine

Submitted without comment to avoid tainting the information.

Have you never heard of copyright?

Actually that's not against copyright laws. BamaD placed the article in its entirety (including the advertisments....damn it man!). But it was done in good faith. The article does give quite an argument of that 'drop in crime' rate. Its neither due to harsh winters or CCW, but something even worst....clerical errors and misdirection.

BamaD posted the information enough to find it online if I wanted. In fact its right here. He doesn't have anything to gain financially from posting it. But, my god man! That was freaking LONG! You could have just given an link....

It is most definitely a copyright violation. You cannot reproduce a copyrighted work without the owners permission in whole period.


This post is getting off topic, Moderators. So I beg some latitude in making my points here...

I can take something straight from the Boston Globe, post it here, and not be in violation of copy rights assuming certain conditions. That I give the full name of the article, the author(s), and where it can be found. The Boston Globe has three different editions (with stars on the front page). So, "How to tell if your a Game of Thrones Addict" by Walter White, April 1, 2014, Boston Globe, establishes WHO the copyright belongs to. This site is not a paid site. Can the work be found in the public area known as 'the internet'? Yes. However, its the Moderator's decision on whether the post remains, modified, or deleted. Generally that was a very....long...post that BamaD could have posted a link. All an all its a lesson for all of us to learn from.

You are simply wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
In short, the owner of a work controls its reproduction, in full, period.

Bama could have posted the first paragraph and a link to the rest legally but posting the entire article is a clear violation. There is not even reason to discuss this.


This is something the moderators would have to step in and define the rules. Does one just give 'x' number of paragraphs and a link? What if its in a print publication? Kind of hard to give a link to a physical page and book, isn't it?

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 8:14:05 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		containing a full and copyrighted article

from mod 3

there issue settled, no excuse for further derailment

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 8:37:35 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Get it through your head. Expectations of a law ramp up before implimentation.
For example: healthcare, where employers shed hundreds of thousands of full time jobs in expectation PRIOR to implimentation.

So 16 months prior to ordinary citizens being allowed a ccw, violent criminals curtailed their behaviour in fear of the guns that their potential victims might acquire in the future?

See the link in Joethers post, 141 and you will both see the real reason for the "crime drop"
in Chicago.


Did you suppose I did not read it when you posted it?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 8:42:29 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Get it through your head. Expectations of a law ramp up before implimentation.
For example: healthcare, where employers shed hundreds of thousands of full time jobs in expectation PRIOR to implimentation.

So 16 months prior to ordinary citizens being allowed a ccw, violent criminals curtailed their behaviour in fear of the guns that their potential victims might acquire in the future?

See the link in Joethers post, 141 and you will both see the real reason for the "crime drop"
in Chicago.


Did you suppose I did not read it when you posted it?


Then you are ignoring the magazines position that the "drop" in crime is the result, not of
one harsh winter, or the impending ability of "victims" to defend themselves, but to corruption
in Chicago deliberately refusing to report crimes as such creating the illusion of improvement.
The post you were attacking makes as much sense as crime dropped last summer because
this was a harsh winter now doesn't it?

< Message edited by BamaD -- 4/11/2014 8:44:05 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 9:27:49 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


Then you are ignoring the magazines position that the "drop" in crime is the result, not of
one harsh winter, or the impending ability of "victims" to defend themselves, but to corruption
in Chicago deliberately refusing to report crimes as such creating the illusion of improvement.
The post you were attacking makes as much sense as crime dropped last summer because
this was a harsh winter now doesn't it?


It is pretty cear that you are completely unaware of what my position is on this subject.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 9:35:18 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


Then you are ignoring the magazines position that the "drop" in crime is the result, not of
one harsh winter, or the impending ability of "victims" to defend themselves, but to corruption
in Chicago deliberately refusing to report crimes as such creating the illusion of improvement.
The post you were attacking makes as much sense as crime dropped last summer because
this was a harsh winter now doesn't it?


It is pretty cear that you are completely unaware of what my position is on this subject.

Your position would seem to be that what counts is that pro gun people are wrong and
that nothing else is of any importance.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 9:54:54 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		It is pretty cear that you are completely unaware of what my position is on this subject.

Your position would seem to be that what counts is that pro gun people are wrong and
that nothing else is of any importance.

Yup I was right you are completely unaware of what my position is on this subject.
Perhaps if you got the stick out of your ass and actually read what I post your posts would not appear so fucking clueless.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 10:01:09 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
From Chicago Magazine

Submitted without comment to avoid tainting the information.


Have you never heard of copyright?


Actually that's not against copyright laws. BamaD placed the article in its entirety (including the advertisments....damn it man!). But it was done in good faith. The article does give quite an argument of that 'drop in crime' rate. Its neither due to harsh winters or CCW, but something even worst....clerical errors and misdirection.

BamaD posted the information enough to find it online if I wanted. In fact its right here. He doesn't have anything to gain financially from posting it. But, my god man! That was freaking LONG! You could have just given an link....

It is most definitely a copyright violation. You cannot reproduce a copyrighted work without the owners permission in whole period.



DK is correct. See here, the four part test; fair use.



"The court rejected the defendant's fair use defense with the following explanation:

[A] reviewer may fairly cite largely from the original work, if his design be really and truly to use the passages for the purposes of fair and reasonable criticism. On the other hand, it is as clear, that if he thus cites the most important parts of the work, with a view, not to criticize, but to supersede the use of the original work, and substitute the review for it, such a use will be deemed in law a piracy ...

In short, we must often ... look to the nature and objects of the selections made, the quantity and value of the materials used, and the degree in which the use may prejudice the sale, or diminish the profits, or supersede the objects, of the original work."



What is quoted should be either what one is commenting upon or seen within the scope of the comment.

Also, quoting should be recognizable. If one cannot tell if such is a quote or not, there is error. One may cite an internet source, i.e. XXX, Boston Globe, June 20xx, by YYYY, but etiquette, since linking is so easily available, should be adhered too.




_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 10:15:33 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		So, we have concealed carry approved (kinda, maybe?)
And we have crime stats down.
(and a copyright/fair use argument on the side issues)


Two non-sequiturs, each alike in disingenuity,
in fair Chicago, where we lay our bloody scene . . .



< Message edited by mnottertail -- 4/11/2014 10:16:57 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 10:30:46 AM   
MaitresseErica


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/14/2004
Status: offline 		Regardless of what has transpired thus far in Chicago, the fact that those who were once relegated to being unarmed victims now have the option to put a stop to any potentially lethal violence being brought against them will clearly have an impact on crime.

If carrying a firearm does not have a deterring or tangible impact on crime, then why do police carry one (or more)? It's just common sense, which it seems, we as a society are quickly running short of.

Gun free zones are an idea born of ignorance of the realities of life in the real world, mostly brought about by politicians who, in my experience, don't seem to understand the minds of responsible, lawful Americans, our history of at important times trying to be a moral strength in the world, or the minds of criminal thugs. Politicians are instead spoiled, corrupt and morally bankrupted by the very system they function within. Criminals do not care about "zones", they care about having the upper hand and getting away with the spoils. Why is all this so hard for some people to understand? Oh, I know, it's because they CHOOSE not to try...

_____________________________

--
Maitresse Erica
The Duchess of Eyeliner

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 10:45:29 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The cops usually carry one, because they are not dealing with the public at large, but dealing with those folks who; from time to time, might have a case of the ass, and a gun within their grasp; simultaneously.


It ain't common, this common sense stuff, apparently.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to MaitresseErica)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 11:09:59 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
No, it can't be the left has assured us that every time someone uses a gun in self defense it
is a crime!

There's no point entering discussion with someone who just makes up shit.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 12:25:53 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The cops usually carry one, because they are not dealing with the public at large, but dealing with those folks who; from time to time, might have a case of the ass, and a gun within their grasp; simultaneously.


It ain't common, this common sense stuff, apparently.



Right! And the cops are amongst us, therefore within the public at large too.


< Message edited by Yachtie -- 4/11/2014 12:27:20 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent... - 4/11/2014 12:34:07 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Read the end.. various studies have linked increased concealed weapons with a DECREASE in violence.




http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2014/04/04/chicago-enacts-concealed-carry-murder-rate-promptly-falls-to-1958-level-n1818843

Try more reliable/unbiased sources.

The first concealed carry permits were issued in late February, so the decrease in crime can’t yet be attributed to more people carrying guns.

Time will tell.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 160
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