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ORIGINAL: Kirata
Arguing "stupid Republicans" doesn't explain why worry over global warming isn't eating up many Independents either. Anyone have any views on that?

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

FR

It's not so much as a doomsday scenario as many people think, and I feel that is why there is such a pushback on the issue on climate change. Yes we will have harsher seasonal extremes (colder winters, hotter, drier summers), yes we will see increased sea level rises, yes we will see more intense storms.

But it doesn't mean the END.

Humans will adapt, that much is obvious. But it will result in more difficult situations for people living decades from now. Drier summers will be mean crops will have a harder time growing, sea level increased by as much as a meter will displace a lot of people living on the coasts, and more intense storms will result in damages that will cost more than the actions that could be taken to mitigate the effects of climate change.

Humans will be fine, we'll survive, but things will change and not for the better. I don't worry about climate change, because it's already beginning, with what we've put into the atmosphere there are changes that are going to happen regardless of our actions today. I worry about the ramifications of climate change and how many will have to suffer because a couple of morons refuse to listen to reason and the science.

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Lol, democrats talking about the extinguishment of the republican brand? If anything, dems have been saying the republican brand is going to extinguish themselves, and from the look of things they might be right

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Lol, democrats talking about the extinguishment of the republican brand? If anything, dems have been saying the republican brand is going to extinguish themselves, and from the look of things they might be right

Only in your world. In the real world the repubs have a very real chance of taking over congress in 2014.

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

FR

It's not so much as a doomsday scenario as many people think, and I feel that is why there is such a pushback on the issue on climate change. Yes we will have harsher seasonal extremes (colder winters, hotter, drier summers), yes we will see increased sea level rises, yes we will see more intense storms.

But it doesn't mean the END.

Humans will adapt, that much is obvious. But it will result in more difficult situations for people living decades from now. Drier summers will be mean crops will have a harder time growing, sea level increased by as much as a meter will displace a lot of people living on the coasts, and more intense storms will result in damages that will cost more than the actions that could be taken to mitigate the effects of climate change.

Humans will be fine, we'll survive, but things will change and not for the better. I don't worry about climate change, because it's already beginning, with what we've put into the atmosphere there are changes that are going to happen regardless of our actions today. I worry about the ramifications of climate change and how many will have to suffer because a couple of morons refuse to listen to reason and the science.

Just curious TKman.
take Methane: ch4 +2O2----> co2 + 2H2O

Since we are putting trillions of tonnes of C02 into the atmosphere, the means we are putting trillions of tonnes of water into the atmosphere as well.

Now, since water is a greenhouse gas, can you explain

a) how much you've considered whether the "rising seas" might be contributed to by this added water.
b). why you're not concerned about the greenhouse gas effect of water.

For the record, I know the answers to these. Just curious if you do.

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

FR

It's not so much as a doomsday scenario as many people think, and I feel that is why there is such a pushback on the issue on climate change. Yes we will have harsher seasonal extremes (colder winters, hotter, drier summers), yes we will see increased sea level rises, yes we will see more intense storms.

But it doesn't mean the END.

Humans will adapt, that much is obvious. But it will result in more difficult situations for people living decades from now. Drier summers will be mean crops will have a harder time growing, sea level increased by as much as a meter will displace a lot of people living on the coasts, and more intense storms will result in damages that will cost more than the actions that could be taken to mitigate the effects of climate change.

Humans will be fine, we'll survive, but things will change and not for the better. I don't worry about climate change, because it's already beginning, with what we've put into the atmosphere there are changes that are going to happen regardless of our actions today. I worry about the ramifications of climate change and how many will have to suffer because a couple of morons refuse to listen to reason and the science.

Just curious TKman.
take Methane: ch4 +2O2----> co2 + 2H2O

Since we are putting trillions of tonnes of C02 into the atmosphere, the means we are putting trillions of tonnes of water into the atmosphere as well.

Now, since water is a greenhouse gas, can you explain

a) how much you've considered whether the "rising seas" might be contributed to by this added water.
b). why you're not concerned about the greenhouse gas effect of water.

For the record, I know the answers to these. Just curious if you do.

a) Do you have any numbers of how much water has exactly been released by combustion? Because it seems like you forget ice sheets are melting, or are things still nice and cool up on Bullshit Mountain?
b) Water vapour tends to form clouds when in the atmosphere, and while water vapour does act as a greenhouse gas, clouds also act create a cooling effect, which offsets part of the warming.

You still don't get it, in no way am I saying that CO2 is the sole driver for all of these changes. I'm saying, and many others say, that CO2 is the boot which kicked the ball down the hill. It got the ball rolling. It's the factor which is causing numerous other factors to follow suit. The climate isn't a simple thing to model, other gases are going to respond to an increase in at least one other GHG.

When one factor such as CO2 is expelled in such large quantities, you have to ask what effect it has on the atmosphere. And considering it's effect as a GHG, the effect will be significant in large enough amounts. And you and I both know the amounts are enormous when you consider the global use of fossil fuels.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

FR

It's not so much as a doomsday scenario as many people think, and I feel that is why there is such a pushback on the issue on climate change. Yes we will have harsher seasonal extremes (colder winters, hotter, drier summers), yes we will see increased sea level rises, yes we will see more intense storms.

But it doesn't mean the END.

Humans will adapt, that much is obvious. But it will result in more difficult situations for people living decades from now. Drier summers will be mean crops will have a harder time growing, sea level increased by as much as a meter will displace a lot of people living on the coasts, and more intense storms will result in damages that will cost more than the actions that could be taken to mitigate the effects of climate change.

Humans will be fine, we'll survive, but things will change and not for the better. I don't worry about climate change, because it's already beginning, with what we've put into the atmosphere there are changes that are going to happen regardless of our actions today. I worry about the ramifications of climate change and how many will have to suffer because a couple of morons refuse to listen to reason and the science.

Just curious TKman.
take Methane: ch4 +2O2----> co2 + 2H2O

Since we are putting trillions of tonnes of C02 into the atmosphere, the means we are putting trillions of tonnes of water into the atmosphere as well.

Now, since water is a greenhouse gas, can you explain

a) how much you've considered whether the "rising seas" might be contributed to by this added water.
b). why you're not concerned about the greenhouse gas effect of water.

For the record, I know the answers to these. Just curious if you do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Not to mention if combustion reactions are really causing the rise in sea level, then doesn't that give my argument that we should abandon fossil fuels a little more backing? If fossil fuels are causing rising sea levels then you agree with me then that we should move away from them to avoid further problems?

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

FR

It's not so much as a doomsday scenario as many people think, and I feel that is why there is such a pushback on the issue on climate change. Yes we will have harsher seasonal extremes (colder winters, hotter, drier summers), yes we will see increased sea level rises, yes we will see more intense storms.

But it doesn't mean the END.

Humans will adapt, that much is obvious. But it will result in more difficult situations for people living decades from now. Drier summers will be mean crops will have a harder time growing, sea level increased by as much as a meter will displace a lot of people living on the coasts, and more intense storms will result in damages that will cost more than the actions that could be taken to mitigate the effects of climate change.

Humans will be fine, we'll survive, but things will change and not for the better. I don't worry about climate change, because it's already beginning, with what we've put into the atmosphere there are changes that are going to happen regardless of our actions today. I worry about the ramifications of climate change and how many will have to suffer because a couple of morons refuse to listen to reason and the science.

Just curious TKman.
take Methane: ch4 +2O2----> co2 + 2H2O

Since we are putting trillions of tonnes of C02 into the atmosphere, the means we are putting trillions of tonnes of water into the atmosphere as well.

Now, since water is a greenhouse gas, can you explain

a) how much you've considered whether the "rising seas" might be contributed to by this added water.
b). why you're not concerned about the greenhouse gas effect of water.

For the record, I know the answers to these. Just curious if you do.

CO2 adds H2O ? How ? Warmer air holds more H2O but CO2 is not adding H2O to the atmosphere.,..the heat is. It is the liquid water in the oceans that are the only thing that is saving us by absorbing CO2.

Water vapor is transitional and not a permanent contributor it GW and once achieving certain levels turn into rain which we need but not in the increasing form of flooding...thanks to warmer air.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Not to mention if combustion reactions are really causing the rise in sea level, then doesn't that give my argument that we should abandon fossil fuels a little more backing? If fossil fuels are causing rising sea levels then you agree with me then that we should move away from them to avoid further problems?

No.

The first step in solving a problem is being accurately able to describe it. Then you decide how to spend your money. If you asked the natinos of the world, would they give up fossil fuels to prevent .1 mm raise in ocean levels a year, the answer overwhelmngly would be.. no.

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But why worrying over global warming is so predominantly a Democrat pastime seems open to speculation. Arguing "stupid Republicans" doesn't explain why worry over global warming isn't eating up many Independents either. Anyone have any views on that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Not to mention if combustion reactions are really causing the rise in sea level, then doesn't that give my argument that we should abandon fossil fuels a little more backing? If fossil fuels are causing rising sea levels then you agree with me then that we should move away from them to avoid further problems?

No.

The first step in solving a problem is being accurately able to describe it. Then you decide how to spend your money. If you asked the natinos of the world, would they give up fossil fuels to prevent .1 mm raise in ocean levels a year, the answer overwhelmngly would be.. no.

Lol, and when you consider the "trillions" of gallons of water coming from combustion reactions and the countless other gallons of water melting off ice sheets as we speak, I think we're talking about much more than 0.1mm of ocean rising. Not to mention the ocean is heating which creates an expansion effect in and of itself . I'm going to say that's a pretty accurate description, and spending money? Hell, there's a better chance of Hell freezing over before countries stop subsidizing the oil industry. Personally I think the west is in the need for a revolution of sorts, but that's a discussion for another time :P

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Hey man, I got no solid numbers, just abstract statements. If they're so rudimentary, why don't you do them? You do claim to have the superior intellect. 4 degrees and all that BS

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ORIGINAL: kalikshama

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But why worrying over global warming is so predominantly a Democrat pastime seems open to speculation. Arguing "stupid Republicans" doesn't explain why worry over global warming isn't eating up many Independents either. Anyone have any views on that?

According to the documentary "Jesus Camp," Evangelicals don't worry about climate change because the imminent Rapture will make that moot.

Romney received 79% of the Evangelicals vote.

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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

So critical thinking that humans can affect climate by their activities? Or the critical thinking that assumes that because we humans are so tiny that we can't change something as great and mighty as our planet earth? Honestly man, I've read the numbers, and they don't match up with the ones from Bullshit Mountain

Because the critical thinking is this:

Lots of water from melting ice caps and other ice sources + Water from combustion reactions = More water in the climate system
More water in the climate system = increased warming due to increased water vapour + a rise in sea level attributed to both extra water and increased temperatures.

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I don't think I can get any simpler than that, but if you try hard, you might understand it

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a dislike of the human race (The Club of Rome’s work Mankind at the Turning-Point said: “The world has cancer and the cancer is man.”).