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RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 11:54:41 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		If there's an injunction, then there's been some adjudication.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 11:56:26 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		fr

For the moment, A Nevada cattle rancher appears to have won his week-long battle with the federal government over a controversial cattle roundup that had led to the arrest of several protesters.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 11:58:22 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If there's an injunction, then there's been some adjudication.



I see you cannot distinguish between issues.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 12:02:35 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		But I'm able to discern the definition of adjudication, and know an injunction requires a judge.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 12:05:55 PM   
Yachtie


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

But I'm able to discern the definition of adjudication, and know an injunction requires a judge.



How nice.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 12:05:56 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		He distinguishes quite correctly. Read the article you cited, the BLM is not enforcing their right to round up the cattle and remove them from federal land as was ajudicatied by the court. They cite the danger to local idiots. You can better believe that nothing is going away, they are just gonna figure out a way to do it without having to shoot fuckin morons over cows, or not all the morons anyway.

I guess if it was me, I would be taking ids and run them thru the courts and ATF and insure that they have the right to have those guns.... Then I would really start fuckin with them, taxes, ordinances, and so on.....

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 12:13:31 PM   
Yachtie


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

He distinguishes quite correctly.



No, he's not. The issue is whether Bundy is required to pay BLM or, per NV statute, the county. All BLM is relying on is that the Nev Atty Gen, back when, stated it's BLM property, ignoring what the Nev legislature passed as law. Can the Nev Atty Gen, back when, do as he did? Did his pronouncement supercede the Nev legislature?

The county returned Bundy's payment. That alone does not prove (is insufficient) Bundy's assertion false.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 12:18:13 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

But I'm able to discern the definition of adjudication, and know an injunction requires a judge.



How nice.

Thank you. If you could also catch up and use words for what they mean, we could have a conversation. Thanks.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 12:21:53 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Well, that's what the fools are trotting out in court.


The argument stems from the fact that the state of Nevada passed a law that basically annexed Federally owned land.

The simple fact of the matter is that, like many belonging to this particular cult, they feel certain laws do not apply to them. Look at the history of the Mormon "church," polygamy, Mountain Meadows, and the various offshoots of the cult that still defy the government on multiple wives.

You could even throw in the sovereign citizen movement, which basically promotes the idea that there is no legal government higher than the county.

It does not help that Alex Jones and similar conspiracy theorists have jumped on this and screaming government conspiracy.

Now, you might find this interesting.

Then there is United States v. Gardner



_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 12:36:13 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		jif, I was just pointing out to Ken that he has a long list of fools.

But thank you for the background!

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RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 1:00:22 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

He distinguishes quite correctly.



No, he's not. The issue is whether Bundy is required to pay BLM or, per NV statute, the county. All BLM is relying on is that the Nev Atty Gen, back when, stated it's BLM property, ignoring what the Nev legislature passed as law. Can the Nev Atty Gen, back when, do as he did? Did his pronouncement supercede the Nev legislature?

The county returned Bundy's payment. That alone does not prove (is insufficient) Bundy's assertion false.


quote:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.


That basically says the states cannot annex land belonging to the Federal Government, thus the laws from the sagebrush rebellions are basically not worth the paper they are written on.

Kinda like the Conch Republic Rebellion when the INS set up a check point along the highway from Miami to Key West making getting on or off the island damn near impossible due to traffic delays.

Then of course, there was the little argument about Federally owned land in Charleston Harbor in 1860.

Funny thing, it seems that some of the very same people screaming about this have in the past stated that South Carolina and other states were kinda wrong in 1860.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 1:17:08 PM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

He distinguishes quite correctly.



No, he's not. The issue is whether Bundy is required to pay BLM or, per NV statute, the county. All BLM is relying on is that the Nev Atty Gen, back when, stated it's BLM property, ignoring what the Nev legislature passed as law. Can the Nev Atty Gen, back when, do as he did? Did his pronouncement supercede the Nev legislature?

The county returned Bundy's payment. That alone does not prove (is insufficient) Bundy's assertion false.



Yeah, you don't get much law do you? Just because Nevada passes a law in contravention to the US Constitution, say..........gay marraige is illegal now, dont mean that its confusing to other than nutsackers what the law is, and he was told, so when is he gonna pony up the money? He knows these rents were due to somebody, so I assume they are all there ready to go in escrow.

If not, we have a frivolous lawsuit, among other things.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 1:32:59 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And what does that have to do with this asshole who simply stopped paying his grazing fees 20 years ago?



Everything. Whom should he pay? He's willing to pay the proper entity. He says it's the county per Nevada Revised Statute. BLM says it's BLM. BLM should sue and lets see what the courts say. Instead, BLM comes in with muscle. Yes, BLM got an injunction of some kind, but so what? This issue hasd not been adjudicated.

BLM has gone to court. TWICE! And BLM won both times. Once in 1998 and again in 2013. What's hard to understand, this asshole owes his fees and hasn't paid. State laws never trump federal laws.

(in reply to Yachtie)
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RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 1:36:57 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

fr

For the moment, A Nevada cattle rancher appears to have won his week-long battle with the federal government over a controversial cattle roundup that had led to the arrest of several protesters.

He won? Looks like BLM backed down because rounding up cattle isn't worth getting people hurt. So much for the rule of law. And that shows that the right ring no longer actually believes in that.

(in reply to Yachtie)
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RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 1:37:51 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Did that family have grazing rights?

Does anybody on land they don't own?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 1:39:47 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, but those of us with land, like findommes are paid for the loaning of those rights. We aint paid, bossie dont eat.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 1:54:39 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Did that family have grazing rights?

Does anybody on land they don't own?


Only if they are willing to pay for those grazing rights.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 2:51:57 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Alright, for all those supporting this dead beat, why is this rancher not required to pay grazing fees, when 16000 other ranchers who use BLM managed lands follow?

As it stands, the only 'victory' is that the BLM have decided not to force an armed confrontation. They will let this guy get his cattle off the land himself, and that is all that he has won.

Now there is one thing I have learned working for ranchers over the years, for the most part they are conservative, god fearing (christian) individuals who often have problems with various Department of Agriculture regulations, except when it comes to herd health and herd production.

The also follow the philosophy "no one is going to tell me how to use my land."

Most of the ranchers who are grazing on BLM lands are in Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Nevada, and Utah. It is cheaper, by a hell of a lot, to pay grazing fees on public lands than to lease private lands.

Grazing fees are also legitimate tax deductions.

But then you get these guys that have decided that they are above the law, or they are going to pull some bullshit move and claim that the state's claim over rides the federal claim.

Which brings out every right wing extremist group who are looking for some reason for an armed standoff against the Federal Government. Strangely enough, they could care less if it is a Democrat in power or a Republican. They are armed against the new world order, the subjugation of personal rights by the government, or alien invasion.

Then people like Alex Jones promote conspiracy theories based on half truths and complete exaggeration of the facts.

If this gets ugly, and from the crap this guy is spouting as well as the militia groups flocking to support him, the conservatives will blame Obama and the democrats.

Just like they blamed ruby ridge on Clinton when the case that started the whole mess and the shooting happened under Bush sr. Clinton was president during the trial.

This particular case started under Clinton, continued under both Bush terms, and well into the Obama Administration.

Now please remember that the BLM and Department of Interior spend most of their resources dealing with illegal pot farms on public lands, illegal wild horse round ups, and illegal hunting.

Like others, I have struggled to find some reason to back this guy, but the fact he is refusing to do what 16000 other ranchers due every year, I find it impossible.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 3:57:23 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Like others, I have struggled to find some reason to back this guy, but the fact he is refusing to do what 16000 other ranchers due every year, I find it impossible.



I don't.


edit: Now, I'm not having any trouble not coming to Harry Reid's defense either.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 4/12/2014 4:13:54 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: War brewing in Nevada. - 4/12/2014 4:36:51 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Like others, I have struggled to find some reason to back this guy, but the fact he is refusing to do what 16000 other ranchers due every year, I find it impossible.



I don't.


edit: Now, I'm not having any trouble not coming to Harry Reid's defense either.


I noticed, and you are backing a state law saying it supersedes federal law. And if you havent noticed, the supreme court and other federal courts have struck down bans against gay marriage.

Or haven't you noticed?

FYI, there is no Federal Statute against gay marriage, nor was there a statute against Whites marrying African Americans, at least at the Federal level, but the supreme court fixed that.

Other than what you have read on infowars and similar websites, what exactly do you know about BLM regulations?

As for the Federal Agencies making the only statements about using guns and force, that is so much bullshit. The rancher said to press, that it could be the next Waco, militia members flocking to his support have made statements that "they are not afraid to shoot."

Lets see, the Feds backed off to allow this guy to get his cattle, but if you think that they are not going to take action to collect the past due grazing fees, you are wrong.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 60
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