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RE: Your input please: study on abuse within BDSM - 4/15/2014 10:47:04 AM

DesFIP

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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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There are just as many dominants with boundary issues as there are submissives. Look up white knights. Guys whose self esteem is based on 'helping' some poor suffering sub. But who has a vested interest in her staying wounded so she still needs his help.

Sure, she's not getting slapped around but she is being manipulated into not getting help. So who is at fault there? The sub who didn't have the sense to get herself as healthy as possible so she would be attracted only by healthy partners. Or is it all the big bad dom's fault? By denying subs their own culpability at picking these relationships to begin with, by refusing to have them address why they were attracted to such relationships and what they got out of them, you are keeping them victims.

Which makes me wonder why the op so invested in a black/white viewpoint instead of one which would allow all of the parties the attempt to grow in the future.

Now if we want to talk about being abused and mistreated, the year he decided he would fix the air conditioning in the car, and wouldn't admit defeat, requiring me to sweat is all I have to offer. The fact that he was just as hot obviously wouldn't come into play here.

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RE: Your input please: study on abuse within BDSM - 4/15/2014 10:51:15 AM

Greta75

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quote:

Look up white knights. Guys whose self esteem is based on 'helping' some poor suffering sub. But who has a vested interest in her staying wounded so she still needs his help.

The super sad thing is, this is exactly how I would describe my parents relationship. 30 over years of marriage and this cycle goes on forever.

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Post #: 62

RE: Your input please: study on abuse within BDSM - 4/15/2014 11:17:18 AM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ingvild

I am not looking for an exhaustive inventory or details, but has any of you encountered a situation of abuse, either personally or from someone in your circle of friends? And if so, was this physical or psychological, and a one off event or something that took place over a longer period of time?

Earache my eye.... What you are describing here is "background info" not research in any valid way. When you ask for second hand stories. The I have a "friend" story. Without you the <cough> "researcher" actually being able to "interview" and get impressions of the "friend".

That is clearly not an acceptable research standard. I won't hazard a guess at to your motives. Most ppl on here describe what your askin for is "wank fodder" Which is cool just dont call it <cough bull shit cough> "research"

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 4/15/2014 11:18:49 AM >

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Post #: 63

RE: Your input please: study on abuse within BDSM - 4/15/2014 11:19:23 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
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I have to sort of take exception to these two statements:

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

D/s does not exhibit such physical evidence, in itself. It operates on a psychological-mental-emotional level.
Abuse in the name of D/s can be more insidious than any physical act and inflict greater, immeasurable damage.

I do not allow my lady to open a car door for herself, when I'm there. I light her cigarettes.

When a couple of her girlfriends remarked about these things, my lady said: "Michael believes that ladies should be 'taken care of' by gentlemen. He doesn't allow me to do things that he feels he should be doing for me."

Guess what? That's right one of these obnoxious idiots called this behavior "abuse" because I wasn't allowing her to be a "human being". I shit you not.

As a result, I'm persona non grata around a couple of her friends. SHE has decided that if I am not welcome somewhere, she'd rather not go. Guess who's "cutting her off from her friends", now?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

D/s can be prevalent in purely vanilla relationships and marriages.

I disagree. I believe that the very fact that the D/s dynamic is agreed upon and in place that the relationship is definitely not 'nilla. It is not "the norm".

Now, if you're using that to mark a boundary between "regular" and "kinky" sex, I guess I have to acquiesce but as my personal experience above shows, practitioners of D/s are not considered to be 'nilla by the 'nillas.

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Your input please: study on abuse within BDSM - 4/15/2014 11:27:32 AM

Greta75

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quote:

Guess what? That's right one of these obnoxious idiots called this behavior "abuse" because I wasn't allowing her to be a "human being". I shit you not.

Wow, just wow! Women would love you here if you do that! You'd be a treasure! And all her girlfriends would be envious and jealous!

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Post #: 65

RE: Your input please: study on abuse within BDSM - 4/15/2014 12:21:28 PM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I have to sort of take exception to these two statements:

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

D/s does not exhibit such physical evidence, in itself. It operates on a psychological-mental-emotional level.
Abuse in the name of D/s can be more insidious than any physical act and inflict greater, immeasurable damage.

I do not allow my lady to open a car door for herself, when I'm there. I light her cigarettes.

When a couple of her girlfriends remarked about these things, my lady said: "Michael believes that ladies should be 'taken care of' by gentlemen. He doesn't allow me to do things that he feels he should be doing for me."

Guess what? That's right one of these obnoxious idiots called this behavior "abuse" because I wasn't allowing her to be a "human being". I shit you not.

As a result, I'm persona non grata around a couple of her friends. SHE has decided that if I am not welcome somewhere, she'd rather not go. Guess who's "cutting her off from her friends", now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

D/s can be prevalent in purely vanilla relationships and marriages.

I disagree. I believe that the very fact that the D/s dynamic is agreed upon and in place that the relationship is definitely not 'nilla. It is not "the norm".

Now, if you're using that to mark a boundary between "regular" and "kinky" sex, I guess I have to acquiesce but as my personal experience above shows, practitioners of D/s are not considered to be 'nilla by the 'nillas.

Insofar as the issue of abuse goes, I'm distinguishing between BDSM and D/s, not saying that all D/s relationships are abusive. I think we share the same viewpoint that strictly vanilla forms of D/s are not consensually formed at the onset, and therefore lack integrity.

Acting gentlemanly is also unrelated, and these women are fools. Your lady is better off without those kinds of friends. Some women are threatened by masculinity, and this mirrors their own insecurities. Those of us with better sense are not.

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Post #: 66

RE: Your input please: study on abuse within BDSM - 4/15/2014 12:42:53 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I have to sort of take exception to these two statements:

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

D/s does not exhibit such physical evidence, in itself. It operates on a psychological-mental-emotional level.
Abuse in the name of D/s can be more insidious than any physical act and inflict greater, immeasurable damage.

I do not allow my lady to open a car door for herself, when I'm there. I light her cigarettes.

When a couple of her girlfriends remarked about these things, my lady said: "Michael believes that ladies should be 'taken care of' by gentlemen. He doesn't allow me to do things that he feels he should be doing for me."

Guess what? That's right one of these obnoxious idiots called this behavior "abuse" because I wasn't allowing her to be a "human being". I shit you not.

As a result, I'm persona non grata around a couple of her friends. SHE has decided that if I am not welcome somewhere, she'd rather not go. Guess who's "cutting her off from her friends", now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

D/s can be prevalent in purely vanilla relationships and marriages.

I disagree. I believe that the very fact that the D/s dynamic is agreed upon and in place that the relationship is definitely not 'nilla. It is not "the norm".

Now, if you're using that to mark a boundary between "regular" and "kinky" sex, I guess I have to acquiesce but as my personal experience above shows, practitioners of D/s are not considered to be 'nilla by the 'nillas.

Insofar as the issue of abuse goes, I'm distinguishing between BDSM and D/s, not saying that all D/s relationships are abusive. I think we share the same viewpoint that strictly vanilla forms of D/s are not consensually formed at the onset, and therefore lack integrity.

Acting gentlemanly is also unrelated, and these women are fools. Your lady is better off without those kinds of friends. Some women are threatened by masculinity, and this mirrors their own insecurities. Those of us with better sense are not.

If you ask 20 ppl to define abuse you will get 20 different answers. So the questions becomes, what is "abuse". Is whipping someone abuse...how bout a face slap? To some acceptable, others not so much. A lot of us practice out of society "norms". So abuse to my way of thinking would be non consensual hitting. Everything else is "fair game"

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 4/15/2014 12:43:50 PM >

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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Post #: 67

RE: Your input please: study on abuse within BDSM - 4/15/2014 12:50:30 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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Either we're not communicating very well or I'm reading this wrong.

Assuming I'm not reading it wrong: No. We most certainly are not in agreement, here.

I don't believe that there's anything "strictly vanilla" about D/s. I believe the two are absolute opposites.

I have to go for a good few hours.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

I think we share the same viewpoint that strictly vanilla forms of D/s are not consensually formed at the onset, and therefore lack integrity.

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Post #: 68

RE: Your input please: study on abuse within BDSM - 4/15/2014 12:51:24 PM

Greta75

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Yea, bdsm important rule of consensual applies to vanilla and bdsm perfectly.

This lifestyle is so great because you could talk about sexual taboos that you would not ordinarily be able to talk about with a vanilla person.

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Post #: 69

RE: Your input please: study on abuse within BDSM - 4/16/2014 3:15:30 AM

Ingvild

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Joined: 4/15/2014
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Dear all,
It seems the discussion has reached its natural ending. I want to thank you all very much for your contributions. It is interesting to see how the discussion followed its own process and talked mainly about abuse, what constitutes abuse, the issue of consent, and the lifestyle in general. Apparently, the users of this forum have encountered very few cases of abuse. That seems very positive. I will now focus on other sources of information to verify this.
As I explained before, my study is a quick scan. A method not supported by all on this forum, but the main research is taking place in the Netherlands. If such a study would be to take place in the UK, please rest assured that a full research proposal would be drawn, with protocols, questionnaires, sampling methods and all the things you’d expect in a full study.
For now, many thanks again and good luck and fun with all your activities in the future. If anyone wants to discuss things further, please write me at [email protected].
All the best!
Ingvild

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RE: Your input please: study on abuse within BDSM - 4/16/2014 11:48:15 AM

ClassAct2006

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Joined: 4/12/2006
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It is a very difficult issue with the current UK proposals to criminalise coercive control being centre stage. I am certainly not against those proposals - many people are abused as much mentally as physically. However where we draw the line between what is consensual BDSM and what is illegal is fascinating and not always easy to draw. I have always been submissive. I can mostly protect myself pretty well. I would say only once was there real abuse and that was at the end of my long marriage which had ceased years before being BDSM (his choice, not mine). I am not even sure I would like the mental (and very mild physical abuse) to BDSM...

Ah... I see the discussion has ended really. Okay. Anyway I certainly suggest looking at the UK's proposals to criminalise coercive control because its characteristics in a consensual couple may not be too different. What may be illegal in one situation may be legal where both sides consent or I hope it will be.

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